Bossobass Dave Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I have an original Raven sitting here in my office. It's around 9 years old. It's up/down firing drivers can be rotated, that is removed and switched, every 5 years or so, for those who push their sub beyond Xmax routinely. That begs the question... how long does a subwoofer last when it's abused routinely? Most people who are out for max output, regardless of extension, flat response, fidelity, things of that sort, tend to change subwoofers like I change socks. So, decades down the road, driver sag seems the least of possible scenarios. I also asked several driver manufacturers how they store drivers on the shelf. There is also the delusion that a driver that will suffer sag while in a down or up firing configuration will not suffer a far more potentially fatal sag when in a FF configuration. Less likely? More like, never investigated. Closer tolerances for distance from can (VC/former) to to gap over the past decade should have prompted more long-term examination, but, alas, no such data is available. I'm willing to bet the Raven will perform just as it did the day I built and tested it. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Any issues with mounting the SI HT18D2 vertically in an sealed DO cab? Had mine previously in a sono raptor-style orientation for about a year or so, and they were just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I have an original Raven sitting here in my office. It's around 9 years old. It's up/down firing drivers can be rotated, that is removed and switched, every 5 years or so, for those who push their sub beyond Xmax routinely. That begs the question... how long does a subwoofer last when it's abused routinely? Most people who are out for max output, regardless of extension, flat response, fidelity, things of that sort, tend to change subwoofers like I change socks. So, decades down the road, driver sag seems the least of possible scenarios. I also asked several driver manufacturers how they store drivers on the shelf. There is also the delusion that a driver that will suffer sag while in a down or up firing configuration will not suffer a far more potentially fatal sag when in a FF configuration. Less likely? More like, never investigated. Closer tolerances for distance from can (VC/former) to to gap over the past decade should have prompted more long-term examination, but, alas, no such data is available. I'm willing to bet the Raven will perform just as it did the day I built and tested it. Any takers? Thank you, kind sir, that's a great illustration of exactly what I was trying (and probably failing! lol) to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Ya I went through this type of debate on other forums. I dont have any data to back anything up but when i used car audio subs(FI) everyone kept talking about sag in the up down configuration. Has anyone seen the surround. That thing never moved unless a lot of power went to it. It was also in a sealed cabinet and when sealed properly never moved much at all. I think with some drivers and much softer surrounds and large Xmax maybe there would be a problem. BUT so many variables that sag is not a worry for me. I worry more about trying not to break the drivers when showing off, enough power and having something pretty to look at. Bosso was that a GIF from TF2 with BEQ applied and before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Fellow bassheads this is one amazing ULF scene. I forgot how bad ass Elysium is and it's almost all from 25hz down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Bosso was that a GIF from TF2 with BEQ applied and before? Yes, that's Max's before/after BEQ peak hold and James' SL caps of with/without BEQ of the "My Matrix" scene. Fellow bassheads this is one amazing ULF scene. I forgot how bad ass Elysium is and it's almost all from 25hz down. Elysiumcrash.png I agree. The ULF in E is centered at 18 Hz and with about a 2 octave spread. The weight of the overall soundtrack is pretty awesome. One of my favorites is when they laser open the rich guy's ship after they down it. The gun in slo-mo that wastes the robot, the choppers, deportation ship, etc. Lots of good scenes in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 One of my favorites is when they laser open the rich guy's ship after they down it I couldn't remember the other scene I wanted to graph and that's the one! That is a cool effect too. That sweep at the end of the ship crashing where it holds the 20hz note is just awesome. I agree that ST is reference and I actually enjoy the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Fellow bassheads this is one amazing ULF scene. I forgot how bad ass Elysium is and it's almost all from 25hz down. Elysiumcrash.png Yep, as Bosso pointed out, the bass is centered low on that track, and is part of the reason why so many boo-hoo'd it at first. Their systems couldnt handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yah see I don't get that since even a lot of the ported ID subs should've shined with those 18-25hz scenes. I will say the level is a little low but other than that though this ST shoulda killed on a ported sub. They woulda missed the stuff below 15hz obviously but still shoulda sounded great. I'm thinking their levels were low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I finally got around to downloading and playing Bass I Love You. Here's the animation of digits vs Raptor System III: Apparently, there are more than 1 version. The one I used has a big hit centered at 7 Hz. Another version (I think the one Brandon used at his GTG?) has the big hit centered at 9 Hz. Then, the one I used has a repeater at 29 Hz which is not in the other version at all: I guess it could actually be 2 different songs, but if that's so, wow, pretty darned similar. Anyone have info on this? BTW, LOL at the level used through the HS 24 at Brandon's GTG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I have a few songs from the Telatc series of CD's. 1812 Tchaikovsky and a few others. I believe the CD states that it has 7hz canon blasts. BUT the trac is about 40mb. Would be fun to see a cap of that:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Testing Raptor systems continues. Looking for limits in excursion and power. Used Captain America. Top cap = helicarrier launch, bottom cap = helicarrier crash/helicopter rescue. I had the system at +2dBRL MV and SW out at +8dB hot. Adam, no ball breakin'... this was only a test. Shazam. Clipped the Edirol interface. Shook the snot outta the place. That much fun should be illegal. When the neighbor says he's seen Captain America I'll say, no you haven't. Hey James... you're right, purple is pretty. Chrap, Just saw your post. You're right, that disc has been around for a long time in lossless SACD. I can't believe no one has ever graphed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolrda Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Testing Raptor systems continues. Looking for limits in excursion and power. Used Captain America. Top cap = helicarrier launch, bottom cap = helicarrier crash/helicopter rescue. I had the system at +2dBRL MV and SW out at +8dB hot. Adam, no ball breakin'... this was only a test. Shazam. Clipped the Edirol interface. Shook the snot outta the place. That much fun should be illegal. When the neighbor says he's seen Captain America I'll say, no you haven't. Hey James... you're right, purple is pretty. Chrap, Just saw your post. You're right, that disc has been around for a long time in lossless SACD. I can't believe no one has ever graphed it. That looks to be rather violent sub behavior there. BTW, whats your room to displacement ratio? You still shooting for 0.01 L per cu ft of room. Guess I'll have to tackle SpecLab soon to get a better feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Next thing you know all your graphs will be purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Next thing you know all your graphs will be purple. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! Man, you don't know how much I appreciate the timing of that post. Way funny. I'm gonna hook up 3 x Raptor System III and experience 24 x BHT-15 with 42,000W peak madness. I may or may not report back. Might be in a different dimension with no DB forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 :o I wanna do that. If you don't reach the 4th dimension let us know what you're neighbors thought of the 4 Raptor systems and 42k watts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 He might break his house. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Ya know a lot of guys on here have some pretty capable systems. I do wonder at what levels you would start to damage your house. There is no way in hell I would run 3 Raptor systems. It already sounds horrible in the rest of the house when my one system is turned up. Hell the BB in the living room makes my house sound bad haha. And the lower you go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Truthfully, the most I've ever run is 16 x 15". And, I just ran them as a test to see what, if any, improvement there might be in running reference level between an 8 x 15" system and a 16 x 15" system. Of course, there was no difference because the 8 x 15" system already had headroom. Adding +6dB more headroom just allowed me to push the SW level higher. Then factor in the curves that filter <18 Hz and <10 Hz and you increase the peak levels even more. Close to 140dB peaks in-room. Something I've never done, nor had a desire to do. Proves nothing and isn't much fun for me, the neighbors and the house. Popping sheetrock, busting light fixtures and so many rattles to muck up the SQ... You'd be so far above the mains in level it wouldn't be funny and those kinda levels truly can cause long term hearing damage in minutes. Aw, what the hell, Lukeamdman is coming next week, here goes nuthin'... J/K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Truthfully, the most I've ever run is 16 x 15". And, I just ran them as a test to see what, if any, improvement there might be in running reference level between an 8 x 15" system and a 16 x 15" system. Of course, there was no difference because the 8 x 15" system already had headroom. Adding +6dB more headroom just allowed me to push the SW level higher. Then factor in the curves that filter <18 Hz and <10 Hz and you increase the peak levels even more. Close to 140dB peaks in-room. Something I've never done, nor had a desire to do. Proves nothing and isn't much fun for me, the neighbors and the house. Popping sheetrock, busting light fixtures and so many rattles to muck up the SQ... You'd be so far above the mains in level it wouldn't be funny and those kinda levels truly can cause long term hearing damage in minutes. Aw, what the hell, Lukeamdman is coming next week, here goes nuthin'... J/K LOL!! I'm telling you Dave, if I had a 7hz resonance in my floor, I'd have 16x 18" sealed drivers, possibly even 32x 18" sealed drivers for a setup with at least 60kw of power on tap. There's no way I'd switch to a 15hz ported/horn setup and give up that tactile awesomeness below 10hz if that were the case. Maybe I need to experiment with my riser for the back row and get it to resonate below 10hz somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Funny thing is Dave doesn't need any more than his 8 BHT's to get that resonance going. It's like his floor is made from Balsa wood. All those clips we did he wasn't running full throttle and that floor was moving like jello. You're gonna love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 So I am trying a couple things and graphed two of my favorite scenes from the BEQ TF2 but this time I took the NanoAvr out of the chain. I ran my Ps3(PCM HDMI) to my Outlaw 975 to my sanway 14K. I used the test tones on the Outlaw to level match and the speakers were at 75 dB and the LFE to 80 dB. I ran it at reference and here are the results. Opening scene where Optimus says we are not alone and then it starts. Here is My matrix again. Ignore that first line of my matrix as I started the scene and quickly restarted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vxds11 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sorry couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted June 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hahahaha Dave actually sent me that pic with a Raptor stack in the foreground! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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