BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3

[Spacebug]

This is the plan in the near future. I think some folks will be surprised. As far as the price goes, this sub, for $4,000 is unbeatbale for an ID/ plug and play option. 

 

Can you please help a guy out here. 

I'm not a native english speaker and sometimes have trouble with some acronyms. 

I've seen this "ID"  pop up here and there and can't for the life of me figure out what it means.

Really bugs me not knowing what things stand for.

From the context I've gathered that it means something along the lines of manufactured/mass produced  but it would be nice to know what it actually stood for... 

[Madaeel]

Internet Direct

[MKtheater]

I agree Adam. 

[Spacebug]

Internet Direct

 

Uh huh? Not sure if that made it clearer or more confusing. 

Like in only marketing and selling a product online, am I on the right track here? 

[BeastAudio]

Uh huh? Not sure if that made it clearer or more confusing. 

Like in only marketing and selling a product online, am I on the right track here? 

 

 

means no store-front, just sold through an Internet website where you place the order and such. 

[Spacebug]

Ah, thanks a bunch guys!

[Bossobass Dave]

Dave one of your favorites(and Matt's )....Oz tornado scene:

 

OZtornado.png

 

James you run this one yet?

 

 

And the end fight scene:

 

OZendfight.png

 

Yup, I love these 2 scenes. Violently powerful. And, LOL to the Matt reference.

 

So, what curve did you have in line when you did these caps? Is it the mic roll off, or a less-extension curve? Either way, awesome caps. Nothing I'd rather see in the way of measurements.

 

Testing a System III, running +9dB hot with my favorite demo scene from Star Trek, chapter 6 (Larry's favorite).

 

 

Never gets old.

[MKtheater]

Very nice! I have to test both of those. I loved the first Star Trek reboot. Score, bass, movie, it had it all.

[Madaeel]

Yup, I love these 2 scenes. Violently powerful. And, LOL to the Matt reference.

 

So, what curve did you have in line when you did these caps? Is it the mic roll off, or a less-extension curve? Either way, awesome caps. Nothing I'd rather see in the way of measurements.

 

Testing a System III, running +9dB hot with my favorite demo scene from Star Trek, chapter 6 (Larry's favorite).

 

 

Never gets old.

No it doesn't.

 

You know it's funny you mentioned the curve cuz I got up to check it when I saw the graphs. I was only running 5db hot though so I'm guessing that and my roll-off were what made it look soft down low? I ran it hotter but I just didn't take another graph.

 

Out of curiousity was it Larry's system 3?

 

Very nice! I have to test both of those. I loved the first Star Trek reboot. Score, bass, movie, it had it all.

Yah man OZ should be amAzing in your room. That scene Dave is talking about should be too. ST is reference is every aspect fo sho.

[MKtheater]

Hey Adam, I think I finally calibrated my spec lab close enough and posted EoT in it's discussion thread so I don't go too far off topic here.  I used that scene because I know it hits a little over reference from center and LFE to sum to 120 dB at 10hz. 

 

BTW, here is a real life door slam again just to show single digits happening all the time. I shut my door but it did not close good so I opened it and shut it harder, results!

 

[MKtheater]

Bosso, is that the DVD?  Which scene, the one when the Enterprise rises for cover?  If so it looks much different on Bluray. 

[Bossobass Dave]

It's the DVD. It's the scene from outside the ship, through the glass, before they board the shuttle to head to the Nirada. I posted this before. It shows the "With.Without" test I do for guests, playing the scene with the 18 Hz HPF curve and then playing the scene again, balls out, with the +10dB L/T curve with no HPF.

 

IOW, Multi-18 Hz-tuned-ported system vs Raptor.

 

[MKtheater]

Oh, Ok, makes me feel better because I skipped right over it.  I noticed more clipping in my speakers than I remember but these new DIY speakers are a little more revealing. 

 

I am on your side, as you know I have been trying all the different alignments because of the excitement around them and like sealed better overall.  The best besides sealed were my DTS-10's but they went to 9hz flat in my room so they were getting close. 

[Madaeel]

Hey Adam, I think I finally calibrated my spec lab close enough and posted EoT in it's discussion thread so I don't go too far off topic here.  I used that scene because I know it hits a little over reference from center and LFE to sum to 120 dB at 10hz. 

 

BTW, here is a real life door slam again just to show single digits happening all the time. I shut my door but it did not close good so I opened it and shut it harder, results!

I don't care if you post Speclabs here cuz we can compare and Dave and I love em. It's just we discuss everything here and my graphs are getting lost in between the different topics.

 

Yah I get that too when I close my doors too. Weird it's reading that much ouput.

[MKtheater]

Just think how hard 5-10 dB over reference would be at 3 hz which a normal door slam creates. It is the pressure from the door and subtle but we hear the loud clack from the door that gets noticed. Without the pressure it would seem unnatural.

[MemX]

It's the DVD. It's the scene from outside the ship, through the glass, before they board the shuttle to head to the Nirada. I posted this before. It shows the "With.Without" test I do for guests, playing the scene with the 18 Hz HPF curve and then playing the scene again, balls out, with the +10dB L/T curve with no HPF.

 

IOW, Multi-18 Hz-tuned-ported system vs Raptor.

 

 

Must. Sort. Out. My. EQ...

 

 

I *think* I get *hints* of this wobbly stuff; keep posting these as it adds motivation for procrastinating me!

[Bossobass Dave]

Happy Friday, everyone.

 

Just finished testing a Raptor System III with The Incredible Hulk, Star Trek, etc. Here's Earth To Echo at +3dB hot in 3500 cubes:

 

 

And, no serious subwoofer test is complete without the king of MWB, WOTW. Here's the Lightning Strikes, outside the house and inside the house:

 

 

And, the Bridge Collapse scene, one of the highest measured voltage into the amplifier scenes of all time:

 

 

All drivers passed the Rub & Buzz test, no leaks, no runs, no errors, they look pretty awesome if I say so myself. I always keep WOTW 'til last and I always freak a bit because of the destruction it's caused to hardware in past years. I ran it at +3dB hot to make sure there's headroom and it's still a moving experience, pun intended.

 

Earth To Echo ain't no slouch, either. It's brutally powerful, lasts a long time and gets louder as it progresses... anyway, I had the caps so I thought I post copies.

[Madaeel]

The lightning strikes when TC runs inside and the bridge collapse are my favorite.

 

I'll have some more posted up this weekend Dave. Not sure what yet..something low though.

[MKtheater]

So I cleared out some amps and had to rack and reconnect everything so I had to calibrate everything again.  So I ran EoT and here is reference.

 

 

Then I decided to run it 10 dB hot but I do have a peak of 5 dB from 7-20 Hz so the lower frequencies are a little hotter.  The screen was shaking violently so it was a good thing the screen did not have much on it. Here it is.

 

[MemX]

 Thanks for the screen caps, guys!

 

 

Happy Friday, everyone.

 

Just finished testing a Raptor System III with The Incredible Hulk, Star Trek, etc. Here's Earth To Echo at +3dB hot in 3500 cubes:

 

 

And, no serious subwoofer test is complete without the king of MWB, WOTW. Here's the Lightning Strikes, outside the house and inside the house:

 

 

And, the Bridge Collapse scene, one of the highest measured voltage into the amplifier scenes of all time:

 

 

All drivers passed the Rub & Buzz test, no leaks, no runs, no errors, they look pretty awesome if I say so myself. I always keep WOTW 'til last and I always freak a bit because of the destruction it's caused to hardware in past years. I ran it at +3dB hot to make sure there's headroom and it's still a moving experience, pun intended.

 

Earth To Echo ain't no slouch, either. It's brutally powerful, lasts a long time and gets louder as it progresses... anyway, I had the caps so I thought I post copies.

 

That bridge scene always has me slightly worried for my drivers, even though I know they should be fine as they are modelled to stay within XMax at any Hz with the amp power I am feeding them!

 

Earth to Echo and Edge of Tomorrow need to get cheaper before I buy them lol

 

Bosso - do you undertake 'Worst Case Scenario' testing?  Or to put it another way, is the Raptor III designed to cope with, say, EoT opening scene at volumes over reference with a +15dB bass curve selected??  (i.e. Are they party-proof? lol)

[MKtheater]

It would be be very hard to watch a movie that loud because my screen was shaking so much it was not enjoyable.

[Bossobass Dave]

 Thanks for the screen caps, guys!

 

 

 

That bridge scene always has me slightly worried for my drivers, even though I know they should be fine as they are modelled to stay within XMax at any Hz with the amp power I am feeding them!

 

Earth to Echo and Edge of Tomorrow need to get cheaper before I buy them lol

 

Bosso - do you undertake 'Worst Case Scenario' testing?  Or to put it another way, is the Raptor III designed to cope with, say, EoT opening scene at volumes over reference with a +15dB bass curve selected??  (i.e. Are they party-proof? lol)

 

My tests are at reference level in my leaky 3500 cubes. Reference level is... the reference. The disc is what it is as far as WCS goes and that's a moving target. When Max gets the WCS test disc done, we'll use it, but I still believe that production that includes compressing/limiting/clipping can exceed WCS as far as subwoofer performance goes.

 

Running hot is not included in tests because of many factors, like who can bump his signal level by +10-15dB and not be sending a clipped signal to the amplifier? The max extension curve of the SEQSS is exactly +10dB <10 Hz. There is no +15dB curve. To exceed the overall playback level at reference, you must select a curve with less extension. IOW, you give up some extension for loudness. That's exactly the same in production. To make a louder track, you must give up extension (filter the track) and/or SQ (lower the dynamics by lopping off the peaks).

 

This is what every other commercial subwoofer ever offered does. Aggressive limiters allow for higher maximum SPL by squashing the low end, or changing the FR curve. The difference is that limiters change the FR at the seats infinitely with no user input available... it's done automatically. With Raptor, you select the curve and it stays at that FR throughout playback. Want loud? Select the curve that most filters the low end and crank away. Want accurate? Reference level (highest possible accuracy of playback) is assured.

 

When Josh tests a DIY sub, there are no injected limiters or filters, so the curve stays the same throughout the power compression sweeps, save for power compression, which the test is looking for. When he tests a commercial sub, the limiters kick in and the FR changes as level is increased... much more radically than in the DIY (no limiters) scenario:

 

 

As shown, limiters add distortion as well. This difference of selecting a curve vs buying an "idiot proof" sub that changes the FR infinitely in real time during playback is hard for a lot of people to grasp because they've never had to look at the situation for what it is, even though every sub ever tested (from Mullen to Ilk to Slarti to Josh) shows the same results of ever-changing FR at reference level playback of a 4-5 star MWB.

 

With Raptor, when the max extension curve is selected, if you attempt run extremely hot with a 5 star MWB, the A-14K front panel lights will show voltage peak limiting and/or current peak limiting. The Current Peak Limiter is global and cannot be selected by the user. The Voltage Peak Limiter has user-selectable limits, set here before shipping. These are both hard limiters and just set to tell the owner it's time to select another curve or back off the hotness.

 

With selectable curve, you select the curve that allows your preferred playback level and use that to calibrate the system. Thereafter, you know your calibration holds true throughout the playback session. With commercial sub's aggressive in-line limiting, you calibrate your system to the advertised FR, but thereafter you never know what the FR or calibration is.

 

SpecLab shows this phenomenon well, which is another reason I like it for tests with real world soundtracks.

[maxmercy]

Bosso and others:

 

What would you guys want to see on an LF WCS disc?

 

I was thinking WCS sinewaves (for signal chain clipping diagnosis) vs a very long linear WCS sinewave sweep from 0.5Hz to 200Hz.

 

For actual testing with the whole system, tonebursts at different frequencies, esp targeting ULF.

 

And an actual pink noise file for LFE channel level setting with a C-weighted SPL meter set to SLOW.

 

Other suggestions?

 

JSS

[Bossobass Dave]

All of the above sounds great!

 

I would especially love to have a way to calibrate reference level. Using pink noise with the RS meter is simply not accurate. It depends wholly on the frequency response at the meter.

 

Using a sine sweep with REW is also not accurate in that it redirects one channel of bass to the subwoofer system and has no LFE.

 

With AVRs that use the 0-100 scale MVL, WTF?

 

HELP!!!

[Madaeel]

^^^^Please do this John! I'm tired of that mess too. Reference level is all over the map.