Madaeel Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Don't know how I missed this. It's my favorite post in the last 6 pages. I must've been in the hospital having my heart stented when you posted. You got the old man part nailed. Damn......sorry to hear that Dave. Glad you're alright friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Here is a spec lab of the same scene of x-men. I have a 60hz ground loop from my surround amp I am fixing but at least I am getting these going again. I don't have any EQ, no boost or LT, and no cal files for the UMIK. I ran this flat or close to it. I am still working on proper input level to match reference better but I have been away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Damn......sorry to hear that Dave. Glad you're alright friend. I appreciate it, but I pounded out 10 miles on my Marin road bike today (and every day). Like Virginia says, "Only the good die young, David". Would be cool to show up when Dom is there. I miss you guys. Could you pick me up at the airport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks for the SL caps, guys, I've been looking forward to mic'd at the seats SL caps for a long time now. I appreciate the effort... It's an elite club. I really don't care what floor I sit on, gettin' the whole sound scape is where it's at. I love that scene. Whoever put it together deserves top honors and it's superbly executed, audio and visual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I just figured out the proper level using EoT. Here it is at reference, no EQ, no Boost, and again, my mic sucks without files. I will rerun Xmen again with these settings. You know I want to boost my LFE 10 dB hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I just ran X-men again at the same levels as EoT. Much lower this time. This is supposed to be reference levels(calibrated with REW and sweeps). This is flat with the mains and same raw response as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Maybe its me wanting more value for dollar but Bosso are you able to still make the 20K amp in 240vac? Curious how much more it costs compare to the 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Maybe its me wanting more value for dollar but Bosso are you able to still make the 20K amp in 240vac? Curious how much more it costs compare to the 14. I think it could be a great product to offer, even if at a slightly elevated, individual / custom order price - what"s the relatively marginal cost of installing a 240v line compared to what will be the overall cost of such a system? I think there would be buyers out there for such a compact, high-power solution, and don't forget most places on the other side of the pond are already blessed with proper power supplies Oh, and it's cool to see some love for the CV5000 When you say you tested two of them bridged and they were similar to the A14K but just took up more space, do you mean output and roll-off wise? Would there be any chance you have the data/graphs available? I'm still to stop procrastinating and actually get tweaking but I am hoping to be able to get the wobble I'm looking for As Infrasonic says, lower cost units that can be added to later are more easily budgeted for / justified to the boss lol, and as I wanted a warranty, the so-called clones weren't a suitable choice for me, but as two CV5000 are roughly the same as an A14K, if I do ever go nuts and double my system size when I actually can afford a house, single-unit form factor is very appealing, as is near-flat all the way down! Great info posted by @spacebug too - if it's possible to mod the Behringer amps to reduce their current roll-off characteristics pretty simply, it's one more solution available for full BW reproduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Maybe its me wanting more value for dollar but Bosso are you able to still make the 20K amp in 240vac? Curious how much more it costs compare to the 14. Yes. I'll ping you next week with the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 James, Look at the waveform graph on the right. Way too much input signal. You're clipping massively. You want to turn the input down until you get maximum waveform without touching the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Guys, I'm not into selling amplifiers to DIYers. They are bang-for-buck shoppers and no one is ever gonna dissuade them from the lowest cost options. That's what Behringer is for. notnyt tells AVSers that the A-14K has "some minor changes" and "you can buy 2 clones for the same price". Neither of those statements are near the truth. Scott says that 4 iNuke6000s are 1/2 the price of the A-14K because "he thought the A-14K was $2500", when it would have to be $3500 for the statement to be true. Not singling them out, they're just 2 typical sentences on the subject, but that's the sort of bullshit that flies in the DIY arena. I built the amp for the Raptor and Blackbird systems. I occasionally ship amplifiers to people who want what they provide, because I'm a nice guy, not because it's a lucrative profit venture. I don't have to sell, correct, educate, argue with any of them. Most importantly, I don't have to run around a dozen forums every day dispelling nonsense about amplifiers in DIY threads. Regarding the A4-20K, if I bring in a single amp, mod it, test it, install the custom front panel, box it, ship it to an international destination and warranty it, there is nothing in it but liability for me. I can make the info available and possibly look at a group buy, but one-at-a-time is not gonna happen. Sorry. EDIT: Sorry, Mem, I used the Marathon MA 5050, not the CV5000. I've never used a CV 5K. There was some raving lunatic who appeared briefly at AVS DIY, apparently, a DJ who drives Alpine car drivers, and he ranted about comparing the 2 and how the CV was more betterer, etc. He then showed up at the SpeakerPlans amp forum with the same stuff and had posts deleted and was banned. No one has vetted the CV5K, IMO. Superlatives like "...that thing's a beast", of course, mean nothing. I know of no posted frequency response or test results that would lead me to conclude it's anything but a bang for buck 5KW rated 3RU, 40% efficient, big iron amp, a la Marathon and American Audio. IMO, if you want a big iron 5KW amp, buy the QSC RMX5050 or Crown CA18, etc. If you want a cheaper version, the Chinese make about a scrillion versions. The dual Marathons, which have similar roll off, vs the A-14K were tested at reference level, not +10dB hot, just to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I noticed that last night but I went to bed. I will try it again tonight. Spec lab is fun. Too bad my mic can't have the cal files loaded for the low end but for $100 it does a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I noticed that last night but I went to bed. I will try it again tonight. Spec lab is fun. Too bad my mic can't have the cal files loaded for the low end but for $100 it does a good job. Yeah, sorry, I don't know anything about the USB mics. Just lower the input until there's no clipping. Don't go too far the other way and have too little signal with hardly any waveform. You can always adjust the color scale with the offset feature to keep the color scale right and avoid clipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Yeah my mic was on max volume. I will adjust until I get it exact. My frequency response shows a drop off at 4hz where te signal chain falls. Without the files on spec lab 4-8hz suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I appreciate it, but I pounded out 10 miles on my Marin road bike today (and every day). Like Virginia says, "Only the good die young, David". Would be cool to show up when Dom is there. I miss you guys. Could you pick me up at the airport? Yah I know you were doing the walking every day. Riding is more fun and you got a beautiful area to ride in. I wouldn't mind riding myself it's just too many cars around. Virginia is right and man you're an asshole so you'll live forever. Hell yes I can pick you up just let me know when! It's an elite club. I really don't care what floor I sit on, gettin' the whole sound scape is where it's at. I love that scene. Whoever put it together deserves top honors and it's superbly executed, audio and visual. 100% agreed. That is a reference scene in all aspects. Yeah my mic was on max volume. I will adjust until I get it exact. My frequency response shows a drop off at 4hz where te signal chain falls. Without the files on spec lab 4-8hz suffers. Even with no cal file or EQ that is some amazing extension man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Thanks, you too. I have been wondering if I needed the LT or not based on spec graphs but realize my room and the IB makes up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 Doesn't seem like you do but nothing wrong with some boost down low if you got the headroom. Especially since your first row is on concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacebug Posted May 9, 2015 Report Share Posted May 9, 2015 I feel like I stirred up the beehive, that was not my intention and I'm sorry if I came off in a hostile manner and stepped on some toes. I was just wondering why Dave thought rather less of the usual bang for buck amps diy folks usually goes for. That was atleast what I gathered from reading a bunch of his posts. But it all became clear when he explained that what he was after was a big ass monoblock to power the whole rig, or at least big ass 2 channel amp that were bridgeable to mono. Seeing as that rig would need some proper power to get the most out of it, and a criteria for a single amp to power it all, that criteria alone would weed out just about any and all of the popular bang for buck amps. Again, sorry if I stirred things up, I'm sure I could have expressed myself in a less intimidating manner. Oh and Dave, the reason I asked about the rolloff/highpass of A-14K was that I read that you use, or atleast used to use the Oppo 105. With its exeptionally low rolloff on the sub channel, it is a real shame its bass management is so effed up. I thought that if you wanted to lower the amplifiers rolloff, it could perhaps cancel out another bluray players potentionally steeper rolloff, so the end result would be more or less the same. Not accounting the Oppos fairly high end analogue circuits though, wonder if there are other players that are close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 James, Look at the waveform graph on the right. Way too much input signal. You're clipping massively. You want to turn the input down until you get maximum waveform without touching the sides. That paragraph sounds like it has an innuendo in there somewhere lol Guys, I'm not into selling amplifiers to DIYers. They are bang-for-buck shoppers and no one is ever gonna dissuade them from the lowest cost options. That's what Behringer is for. notnyt tells AVSers that the A-14K has "some minor changes" and "you can buy 2 clones for the same price". Neither of those statements are near the truth. Scott says that 4 iNuke6000s are 1/2 the price of the A-14K because "he thought the A-14K was $2500", when it would have to be $3500 for the statement to be true. Not singling them out, they're just 2 typical sentences on the subject, but that's the sort of bullshit that flies in the DIY arena. I built the amp for the Raptor and Blackbird systems. I occasionally ship amplifiers to people who want what they provide, because I'm a nice guy, not because it's a lucrative profit venture. I don't have to sell, correct, educate, argue with any of them. Most importantly, I don't have to run around a dozen forums every day dispelling nonsense about amplifiers in DIY threads. Regarding the A4-20K, if I bring in a single amp, mod it, test it, install the custom front panel, box it, ship it to an international destination and warranty it, there is nothing in it but liability for me. I can make the info available and possibly look at a group buy, but one-at-a-time is not gonna happen. Sorry. EDIT: Sorry, Mem, I used the Marathon MA 5050, not the CV5000. I've never used a CV 5K. There was some raving lunatic who appeared briefly at AVS DIY, apparently, a DJ who drives Alpine car drivers, and he ranted about comparing the 2 and how the CV was more betterer, etc. He then showed up at the SpeakerPlans amp forum with the same stuff and had posts deleted and was banned. No one has vetted the CV5K, IMO. Superlatives like "...that thing's a beast", of course, mean nothing. I know of no posted frequency response or test results that would lead me to conclude it's anything but a bang for buck 5KW rated 3RU, 40% efficient, big iron amp, a la Marathon and American Audio. IMO, if you want a big iron 5KW amp, buy the QSC RMX5050 or Crown CA18, etc. If you want a cheaper version, the Chinese make about a scrillion versions. The dual Marathons, which have similar roll off, vs the A-14K were tested at reference level, not +10dB hot, just to clarify. Many thanks for the info, Bosso, it's very kind of you I am hoping notnyt will get a CV5k for his amp testing thread on AVS - I'd ship him mine if I was in the same country but it'd be cheaper to buy him a new one than ship mine from here... lol That fellow you mention has also contributed to my build thread on the UK forum I frequent - he is like God, seemingly omnipresent . The current topic of his input is that it is better to increase line levels to pro-amp levels (10v+ IIRC?) via a boost box than stick with AVR 4v SW Out line level, because "it will drive the subs better" (to paraphrase). @3ll3d00d and I are of the mind that turning up the gain on the sub amp has an identical effect so why add another device into the system?! But anyway, perhaps we should not discuss such things for fear of him being like Beetlejuice and appearing whenever he's mentioned lol I would be intrigued to see a likely cost for a Group Buy on the monster version of the A14K - likely to be completely out of my reach unless I sell a kidney, mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I feel like I stirred up the beehive, that was not my intention and I'm sorry if I came off in a hostile manner and stepped on some toes. I was just wondering why Dave thought rather less of the usual bang for buck amps diy folks usually goes for. That was atleast what I gathered from reading a bunch of his posts. But it all became clear when he explained that what he was after was a big ass monoblock to power the whole rig, or at least big ass 2 channel amp that were bridgeable to mono. Seeing as that rig would need some proper power to get the most out of it, and a criteria for a single amp to power it all, that criteria alone would weed out just about any and all of the popular bang for buck amps. Again, sorry if I stirred things up, I'm sure I could have expressed myself in a less intimidating manner. Oh and Dave, the reason I asked about the rolloff/highpass of A-14K was that I read that you use, or atleast used to use the Oppo 105. With its exeptionally low rolloff on the sub channel, it is a real shame its bass management is so effed up. I thought that if you wanted to lower the amplifiers rolloff, it could perhaps cancel out another bluray players potentionally steeper rolloff, so the end result would be more or less the same. Not accounting the Oppos fairly high end analogue circuits though, wonder if there are other players that are close? No, no problems. I actually enjoyed your posts. You asked a simple Q and I gave the simple A and you got it, exactly. Yes, monoblock amplifier for the mono SW signal to the mono subwoofer system. Just like any other subwoofer with a monoblock plate amplifier, except the systems are scalable. System 2 is 4x15 8 ohms, system 3 is 8x15 4 ohms. One and the same monoblock amplifier for both. You have chosen multiple monoblocks to drive you system. They're just 2 full bridge monoblocks in each amp case. This is the exact same thing people do who buy multiples of an ID cube sub. Each one has it's own monoblock plate amp. You need an A/C outlet where each sub is placed, there is added cabling and gain setting complexity and the end result is not as good... IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, ITNA, IDCWYT. Yes, we're looking into finding a good average for voltage and roll off. It's a constantly moving target, which is why the gain setting dip switches and Voltage Peak Limiter dip switches are another step up over multiple low end choices that have no user-adjustment other than attenuation of a single gain range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Not selling a few amps here or there to DIY'ers makes sense to me from a business stand point. Thats fine also. Appreciate everything you have done for the fellow DIY'er through the years. I personally dont like buying cheap alternatives myself. It takes me longer to buy stuff but I can feel good about what I own for the years to come. I only own Crest amps now and will be buying some more amps towards the end of the year. I was looking at owning a few QSC PLD 4.2's or DCM series depending on pricing. BUT for a sub amp the 4.5's are nice but dont even compare to a 14K. My amps from QSC will be used for a portable setup and my sub amp will be used for both home use and portable. So the four channel is interesting to me. I can make the normal 14K work just as well if need be. So again thanks for insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Doesn't seem like you do but nothing wrong with some boost down low if you got the headroom. Especially since your first row is on concrete. I built a riser for the front row too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I noticed that last night but I went to bed. I will try it again tonight. Spec lab is fun. Too bad my mic can't have the cal files loaded for the low end but for $100 it does a good job. You can make a cal file for speclab - see http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/290-using-speclab-for-measuring-in-room/?p=4124for details This describes a soundcard cal file but same principle applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thanks for that link d00d, I forgot where that was. You are definitely a pro when it comes to the PC side of tweaking things. A friend of mine (who has a HTPC) is interested in getting a multichannel interface and assigning the channels for surround as opposed to his PCI soundcard. Have you ever started a thread showing people how to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I built a riser for the front row too. How high is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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