BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3

[nube]

Madaeel,

 

That's weird in your scenecap that the 20Hz tone is +8dB or more above the 6Hz tone.  Here's yours:

 

 

And here's mine taken from the disc:

 

[Infrasonic]

The 6.5hz effect certainly felt more dominating to me than the 20hz did.

[Madaeel]

Yah I ran the whole system near field and while I did feel the ULF a bit more it wasn't enough to make me keep it there. It's basically in the middle of the room so I got no boundary gain and my FR was awful and dropped bad from 16-40 IIRC.

 

I can't do a riser cuz of my bulkhead. It's right above the couch and I think the ceiling height there is only 6' 8". Plus the path for the pj would hit peoples heads. I have room to the right of the couch though and I will put some subs there eventually I just don't know what. I had the four SI's there for a little bit but I didn't have them sealed properly so they had little output below 30hz so I'm not sure how it would sound but it's only 2ft from the couch aka near field.

[Madaeel]

Madaeel,

 

That's weird in your scenecap that the 20Hz tone is +8dB or more above the 6Hz tone.  Here's yours:

 

 

And here's mine taken from the disc:

 

I think I have boost at 20hz in my eq settings in the 7030. I know Paul and I messed with it when I ran the subs near field. I prolly forgot to change it back. I'll check it tomorrow. Thanks Nube.

[MKtheater]

Probably that and mic roll off. The Umik sucks under 10hz unless it has a cal file. Adam is down 20 dB at 5hz compared to Bosso's.

[maxmercy]

What's the lowpass set at for the riser subs?

 

I really don't go to AVS anymore. I just sub to PI's threads and check in when I get email updates.

 

JSS

[Infrasonic]

What's the lowpass set at for the riser subs?

 

I really don't go to AVS anymore. I just sub to PI's threads and check in when I get email updates.

 

JSS

 

Man, you don't read anything other than threads from one single poster?

 

At the moment... I forget. I don't think I've applied an extra low pass to the riser. I think I did to the rear subs but not the riser. I'll have to double check when I get home.

 

From the AVR the low pass is 120hz. Definitely no voices coming out of the riser or I would have done something already. After some tweaking, the whole system sounds great! This past week just enjoying watching stuff and not feeling the need to continue to tweak. Good sign, I say.

[Madaeel]

Probably that and mic roll off. The Umik sucks under 10hz unless it has a cal file. Adam is down 20 dB at 5hz compared to Bosso's.

Yah it's a boost in the 7030 and combined with my rolloff. I have a cal file. That's just the difference between mic'd off the disc and mic'd off the subs.

[maxmercy]

Man, you don't read anything other than threads from one single poster?

 

At the moment... I forget. I don't think I've applied an extra low pass to the riser. I think I did to the rear subs but not the riser. I'll have to double check when I get home.

 

From the AVR the low pass is 120hz. Definitely no voices coming out of the riser or I would have done something already. After some tweaking, the whole system sounds great! This past week just enjoying watching stuff and not feeling the need to continue to tweak. Good sign, I say.

Not wanting to tweak more is a VERY good sign.

 

No time to be on AVS. Waaaay too much noise to sift through nowadays to get to good stuff. I remember when the entire first page of threads had at least 5-10 threads worth reading, with knowledgeable people posting, and good data. Now much less so.

 

JSS

[Shredhead]

Madaeel,

 

That's weird in your scenecap that the 20Hz tone is +8dB or more above the disc

Yeah, like MK said, little bit of signal chain rolloff, plus a lot abit of mic rolloff. Sounds better than it looks.

 

MK, hook him up with the SL cal file that d00d made you.

[3ll3d00d]

if you have a cal file then I can make a SL filter quite easily, just send it over

[Shredhead]

Cool thanks d00d, I think I'll take you up on that offer pretty soon.

[coolrda]

Not wanting to tweak more is a VERY good sign.

 

No time to be on AVS. Waaaay too much noise to sift through nowadays to get to good stuff. I remember when the entire first page of threads had at least 5-10 threads worth reading, with knowledgeable people posting, and good data. Now much less so.

 

JSS

What, you mean you don't like the "instant gratification guy' asking why something doesn't work when the simple answer is even more confusing to him or the "I don't get it guy" asking the same question across multiple threads because he didn't get an answer in 33 seconds then converts to blog terrorism or is it the "Iknow it all guy" that joined 6 days ago, has read every post and now is the dedicated theater room constructor of the gods and knows anything and everything about it including particle acceleration and how splitting the atom aids in projector calibration. Whats not to like?

[Infrasonic]

I like the 'i know it all' guy. He knows everything!

[maxmercy]

What, you mean you don't like the "instant gratification guy' asking why something doesn't work when the simple answer is even more confusing to him or the "I don't get it guy" asking the same question across multiple threads because he didn't get an answer in 33 seconds then converts to blog terrorism or is it the "Iknow it all guy" that joined 6 days ago, has read every post and now is the dedicated theater room constructor of the gods and knows anything and everything about it including particle acceleration and how splitting the atom aids in projector calibration. Whats not to like?

 

That is funny.

 

JSS

[MKtheater]

Yes, that it the new wave of noobs around AVS.  They will try something and now they know!  I guess that is better than the people that don't even try things.  All I can ever give is my experience and opinions and I have tried lots of gear and I still screw things up. 

 

Adam,

You need to get that Cal file for spec labs.  The only difference on spec graph between your system and Dave's should be your pre/pro.  I know we are cheating and not getting the more expensive mic but it gives us a better clue especially if we are adding the LT. 

[Madaeel]

Yah I will. I'm working 12's so it might be a little bit till I get around to it. 

[nyt]

Funny, I was searching for something unrelated and somehow got onto the AVS DIY thread about Nick's HST-24 vs JJ's vaporware 24.

 

Wow, how the silly debates are about how to measure Xmax, Klippel measurements and metrics, 1dB this vs 1dB that, what amp can cook what driver with a sine wave input for what length of time, etc.

 

First, I remember breakin' Nick's balls a bit when he launched the HT series thread at AVS because the pic he showed of the double stitched surround showed the stitching running off the surround altogether. Since then, and since the sudden exodus of Exodus, I've seen and heard various series of Nick's drivers in various sizes and have experienced their extremely high quality and sound with real source as input. I can say without hesitation that his products are all that and he's an awesome asset to the industry. It's good for the DIYers that he so ably stepped up and more than filled the void left by Kevin Haskins.

 

That said, according to the specs he lists for the drivers that Brandon and James use, the displacement is 5.3L per 18. I've posted a very conservative 4.95L for the BHT-15 and it's probably actually more like 5.4L. That tells me that the drivers alone would not be enough to award any crown. The differences would be much more measurable from the room's transmission loss coefficient, the preferred native FR and amplifier power. All 3 are basement HTs with very low TL and, IMHO, the amplifier power goes to Adam, so it would be an interesting exercise (and loads of fun 'cause everyone involved is fun as hell to hang with).

Second, reading that thread today reminded me of the thousands of hours I've wasted on a dozen forums over the years debating things like "...according to Ilkka's GP session, driver 'x' measures 5% less THD than driver 'z' at 12 Hz with 1dB more output...", and group delay, spectral decay, maximum sine wave compression sweep numbers at 10 Hz, etc., etc. Of course, in my own defense, back in the day when the 1x12" ported sub was constantly hailed as the pinnacle of mankind's achievement, 20mm of Xmax was phenomenal and the Tumult's 34mm Xmax rating was a singularly rare alien technology and most people didn't know how bass management worked, many things like inductance and group delay needed to be debated.

 

Today, these sorts of debates are kinda silly. There's no longer an LMS-U that dominates the driver world with all comers trailing miles behind. The UXL-18, HST-18, Z-V4-18, FTW-21, HS-24 and others are in the same league and, regarding all of the supposed differences in performance are all very close in actual-use performance vs things like room transmission loss, signal chain and amplifier capability. As an additional note on the subject, that MTX-9515-44 kicks arse and I'm looking forward to the results of it in a bigger box.

 

Another thing I saw in that thread that has always prodded me into debate was notnyt's ridiculous ported vs sealed claims. He calims, for one thing, that his sims match his measured performance. Okey Dokey.

 

Here's what he posted in this very forum regarding that:

 

 

For reference, the dashed lines are Ilkka's and Josh's GP measured FR of the LMS-U in a sealed box. They show a difference of about 6-7dB maximum at ported tune difference is basic response, not 15dB difference, as claimed. That's a difference in basic response and has nothing whatever to do with actual maximum output differences. notnyt measured his sealed system giving 130dB at 10 Hz, which would infer >130dB higher in frequency, where ported tune resides. That measurement was supposedly taken at the seats in his room and showed extremely low THD. That would mean, for claims to be true, the ported version would give >145dB at 14 or 15 Hz or whatever the ported tune actually is. That would also have to be with zero port chuff and no screaming THD just above and below that point as well. And, that doesn't address GD, which is radically different and possibly has something to do with Dom's tactile sensation theories and discoveries. The loss of the first 2 octaves is glossed over because there was already a HPF in place on the sealed system and so the ULF was not important to the claimant. Nope, it's just about how much hotter one may be able to run the subwoofer system... take WinISD's sim, an obviously flawed FRM measurement result and subjective jargon for it.

 

Yet, this shit (after 'only' quadrupling the box size and adding a port that lops off the first two octaves) that the same driver in a ported box adds +15dB of output, gets a complete pass in every thread it's been spewed in without a single question or a shred of data, while posters (like not) who've never seen, heard or measured Nick's HS-24 break his nuts about Le and Xmax specs. That was some crazy stuff, but reminded me that the proof is always in the pudding. Josh's regimen of tests is the best anyone has ever offered and is much appreciated, but, it's ludicrous to believe that's all one needs to assess a sub in a specific listening space, integrated into any multi-channel system with every disc ever mixed and with every user's post mix production skills (or lack thereof) applied.

 

Either way, I've learned most of what I know on the subject by traveling the good ole USA to meets, shootouts and listening sessions. Sine waves are not used for input or to show anything else about the sound from a system. Real source is used, the sweet spot is shared by all, source favorites are played, many of which I would never have heard of or bought if I hadn't heard them at the GTGs, etc. I moved away from attending them and it seems that fewer people have them but I'm down for getting back into it.

 

The GTG at Brandon's was great and we got to play with LMS-U, RE-XXX, HT-18 and HS-24. The visit and system 3 set up at Adam's was epic and his visit here was as well. Paul's been out of town but I'm looking forward to headin' to Nick's and will hopefully see Brandon there as well. I swear I'll get ot Jame's HT this summer and bring measurement gear so I'll finally know what the scoop is there.

 

Grave digging this post here, but someone linked it to me and you seem confused.  I don't like my name being attached to made up stories.  I haven't busted Nick's balls about le or xmax and the klippel shit.  The only claims I've made are that displacement being equal, output will be equal in a sealed enclosure.  For some reason some people thought the 24 was magic.  The data-bass tests showed it wasn't.

 

Furthermore, you use a graph which I said was taken with a faulty mic, but completely disgregard this fact.  Feel free to check my original post, it hasn't been edited since January.  I saw gains of 12db at tune, not 15.  The mic issue was discovered after I had moved all my drivers over, so it's not like I can repeat the measurements.  Hell, it's not like I can even get the enclosures into a field to do so anyway.  I'm sorry if going ported offends your sensibities.  I was bottoming out my Ultras and needed to do something about it.  You disregard this fact also and pretend I'm running with huge amounts of headroom.  I have no room gain around 20hz, but I have a good bit at 10hz and below.  In a smaller room with a suspended floor, I'm sure my sealed setup would have been OK.  I had flat response down to 7hz AFTER filtering.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that reproducing the lower octaves is a waste of efficiency and power.  I'll just have to live with being 3db down around 10hz now and relying on transducers for the ulf,  woe is me :/  Did I mention I haven't missed it, or really even noticed?  On another note, my same enclosures with ZV4 18s in a smaller room were flat to 5hz without any EQ.  Likely lower, but there was electronic rolloff.  I was a bit jealous of that for a bit.  Unfortunately, it was also on a concrete floor.  Anyway, I digress.

 

I'm not sure where the malice comes from.  Maybe you've been dipping too far into your own koolaid supplies.  Hopefully you've at least figured out how to get speclab to provide accurate results, instead of using it to show how flat your response is when it was adding 3db per decade.  Just remember, nobody is perfect.  We all enjoy this hobby and like to see it move forward.

 

That all said, if you're ever on Long Island, my door is open to all.  It's always a good time having some beers and bullshitting with others who are into the same hobby.

[lukeamdman]

Grave digging this post here, but someone linked it to me and you seem confused.  I don't like my name being attached to made up stories.  I haven't busted Nick's balls about le or xmax and the klippel shit.  The only claims I've made are that displacement being equal, output will be equal in a sealed enclosure.  For some reason some people thought the 24 was magic.  The data-bass tests showed it wasn't.

 

Furthermore, you use a graph which I said was taken with a faulty mic, but completely disgregard this fact.  Feel free to check my original post, it hasn't been edited since January.  I saw gains of 12db at tune, not 15.  The mic issue was discovered after I had moved all my drivers over, so it's not like I can repeat the measurements.  Hell, it's not like I can even get the enclosures into a field to do so anyway.  I'm sorry if going ported offends your sensibities.  I was bottoming out my Ultras and needed to do something about it.  You disregard this fact also and pretend I'm running with huge amounts of headroom.  I have no room gain around 20hz, but I have a good bit at 10hz and below.  In a smaller room with a suspended floor, I'm sure my sealed setup would have been OK.  I had flat response down to 7hz AFTER filtering.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that reproducing the lower octaves is a waste of efficiency and power.  I'll just have to live with being 3db down around 10hz now and relying on transducers for the ulf,  woe is me :/  Did I mention I haven't missed it, or really even noticed?  On another note, my same enclosures with ZV4 18s in a smaller room were flat to 5hz without any EQ.  Likely lower, but there was electronic rolloff.  I was a bit jealous of that for a bit.  Unfortunately, it was also on a concrete floor.  Anyway, I digress.

 

I'm not sure where the malice comes from.  Maybe you've been dipping too far into your own koolaid supplies.  Hopefully you've at least figured out how to get speclab to provide accurate results, instead of using it to show how flat your response is when it was adding 3db per decade.  Just remember, nobody is perfect.  We all enjoy this hobby and like to see it move forward.

 

That all said, if you're ever on Long Island, my door is open to all.  It's always a good time having some beers and bullshitting with others who are into the same hobby.

 

I had a similar experience, and my room was much smaller than yours.  I really wish my theater room was on a suspended floor!

[Bossobass Dave]

Grave digging this post here, but someone linked it to me and you seem confused.  I don't like my name being attached to made up stories.  I haven't busted Nick's balls about le or xmax and the klippel shit.  The only claims I've made are that displacement being equal, output will be equal in a sealed enclosure.  For some reason some people thought the 24 was magic.  The data-bass tests showed it wasn't.

 

Furthermore, you use a graph which I said was taken with a faulty mic, but completely disgregard this fact.  Feel free to check my original post, it hasn't been edited since January.  I saw gains of 12db at tune, not 15.  The mic issue was discovered after I had moved all my drivers over, so it's not like I can repeat the measurements.  Hell, it's not like I can even get the enclosures into a field to do so anyway.  I'm sorry if going ported offends your sensibities.  I was bottoming out my Ultras and needed to do something about it.  You disregard this fact also and pretend I'm running with huge amounts of headroom.  I have no room gain around 20hz, but I have a good bit at 10hz and below.  In a smaller room with a suspended floor, I'm sure my sealed setup would have been OK.  I had flat response down to 7hz AFTER filtering.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is that reproducing the lower octaves is a waste of efficiency and power.  I'll just have to live with being 3db down around 10hz now and relying on transducers for the ulf,  woe is me :/  Did I mention I haven't missed it, or really even noticed?  On another note, my same enclosures with ZV4 18s in a smaller room were flat to 5hz without any EQ.  Likely lower, but there was electronic rolloff.  I was a bit jealous of that for a bit.  Unfortunately, it was also on a concrete floor.  Anyway, I digress.

 

I'm not sure where the malice comes from.  Maybe you've been dipping too far into your own koolaid supplies.  Hopefully you've at least figured out how to get speclab to provide accurate results, instead of using it to show how flat your response is when it was adding 3db per decade.  Just remember, nobody is perfect.  We all enjoy this hobby and like to see it move forward.

 

That all said, if you're ever on Long Island, my door is open to all.  It's always a good time having some beers and bullshitting with others who are into the same hobby.

 

I haven't said you busted Nick's balls about Le or Xmax. You're just an LMS-U fanboi, so you jump into every thread where the mob is bullshitting Nick to pile on and/or to add your now patented "just port them and it's better" mantra.

 

I was only using your example to point out that everything gets a pass except Nick's HS24 claims.

 

You screwed the pooch with your ported switch over. Blaming a faulty mic is lame, especially from the guy who retorts "I know how to use a mic..." Can I post anything I feel like posting and later on blame hardware? Right. You should have ate it and moved on. Really, man... you post obviously very bad measurements to back simulations and when called you say "you hate ported subs". 

 

Speclab is fine in the bandwidth we're concerned with. It doesn't add anything. Again, the initial claim was 12dB from 10 Hz to the bottom.

 

In the 3-4 octaves below 10 Hz there is an increase of 9-12 dB.

 

 

That changed to 3dB per octave, not per decade. And, of course, finally that changed to 9dB from 3 Hz to 120 Hz, but only when measuring transients that are too short >40 Hz, or pink noise or a measurement sine sweep. And, if you paid attention, you'd realize that they mistaken claim SL adds as frequency decreases when they actually showed it subtracts as frequency increases, dependent on the length of time of the input signal. Don't know where the malice comes from, but I never needed SL to prove anything about the performance of my systems over the years, I don't believe sealed subs are the cure for cancer and I hate Koolaid, physically and metaphorically.

 

But, yes, that stupid argument is pretty much the same as you claiming  +15dB at some frequency without substantiating it. Yes, you later changed that to +12dB but haven't substantiated that claim either.

 

There's no malice on this side. I don't care what alignment you currently prefer, or your reasons for the preference.

 

Josh's tests revealed that Nick's HS24 has +10.4dB more THD-limited output at 31.5 Hz than the Ultra. It proves the HS24 will trounce a pair of Ultras, with zero doubt. The arguments presented to the contrary were pure bullshit. You piled on. End of story.

[nyt]

I haven't said you busted Nick's balls about Le or Xmax. You're just an LMS-U fanboi, so you jump into every thread where the mob is bullshitting Nick to pile on and/or to add your now patented "just port them and it's better" mantra.

 

You mentioned my name specifically when discussing people busting his balls about Le and Xmax.  I did no such thing.  But yeah, porting is better. 

 

I was only using your example to point out that everything gets a pass except Nick's HS24 claims.

 

You screwed the pooch with your ported switch over. Blaming a faulty mic is lame, especially from the guy who retorts "I know how to use a mic..." Can I post anything I feel like posting and later on blame hardware? Right. You should have ate it and moved on. Really, man... you post obviously very bad measurements to back simulations and when called you say "you hate ported subs".

Since when do I hate ported subs? Wat?  The only way I'd ever go back to a sealed setup is if I'm space limited.  I did not screw the pooch, the ported subs are a massive improvement in every way.   The only meaningful sacrifice is size.  Cleaner output, no excursion issues, more output potential. You can have your opinion as to otherwise, but taking a page from your book, you've heard netiher system.

 

Speclab is fine in the bandwidth we're concerned with. It doesn't add anything. Again, the initial claim was 12dB from 10 Hz to the bottom.

 

That changed to 3dB per octave, not per decade. And, of course, finally that changed to 9dB from 3 Hz to 120 Hz, but only when measuring transients that are too short >40 Hz, or pink noise or a measurement sine sweep. And, if you paid attention, you'd realize that they mistaken claim SL adds as frequency decreases when they actually showed it subtracts as frequency increases, dependent on the length of time of the input signal. Don't know where the malice comes from, but I never needed SL to prove anything about the performance of my systems over the years, I don't believe sealed subs are the cure for cancer and I hate Koolaid, physically and metaphorically.

Rofl, ok, totally doesn't matter. Your measurements previously supported by SL are all unaffected and continue to hold water. Ok.

 

But, yes, that stupid argument is pretty much the same as you claiming  +15dB at some frequency without substantiating it. Yes, you later changed that to +12dB but haven't substantiated that claim either.

Sorry, where did I claim 15db? The mic was working well, and verified against other measurement mics previously. I hadn't used it for a while and when I did, the frequency response was completely off. It appeared to still be linear.

 

There's no malice on this side. I don't care what alignment you currently prefer, or your reasons for the preference.

 

Josh's tests revealed that Nick's HS24 has +10.4dB more THD-limited output at 31.5 Hz than the Ultra. It proves the HS24 will trounce a pair of Ultras, with zero doubt. The arguments presented to the contrary were pure bullshit. You piled on. End of story.

Completely ignoring the box size difference and cherry picking a frequency. It also shows only a 3 db difference at 10hz, and 12.5hz, and a 6db difference at 16hz, even with the advantage of a massive box. "This shows a pair of LMS ultra will Trounce the SI24". Silly, yeah?  The arguments provided were anything but bullshit.  The bullshit was the claims some made that the SI24 will best 5 Ultras or other high quality 18s.  I wasn't even just comparing it to the just ultra, but any high excursion 18 inch driver.  I specifically was talking about Zv4 and HST18 in many of the examples given.  The Zv4 is only 6db off at 30hz, even with the bigger box and giant baffle. Did Nick appoint you his white knight or did you fill this role on your own? Since when is discussing and arguing about this stuff something to get so bent about.  Others may have been attacking the Le and Xmax claims, but I steered clear of that entire discussion.  I only partook in the output to displacement discussions.  The results show single SI24 is equal to about 2 18s, which is all I was claiming.  Having multiple drivers with more coil will obviously give you improved long term power handling with less compression, even while in a smaller enclosure.  With an enclosure the size of the SI24 enclosure, a pair of drivers like the UXL18 or the Ultra in a vented alignment would be so far ahead it's absurd ( in the ranges that matter ).

 

Are you just upset because the ported resurgence cuts into your margins?  At least that I could understand.

[Infrasonic]

Round and round we go.

[Bossobass Dave]

You mentioned my name specifically when discussing people busting his balls about Le and Xmax.  I did no such thing.  But yeah, porting is better. 

 

Since when do I hate ported subs? Wat?  The only way I'd ever go back to a sealed setup is if I'm space limited.  I did not screw the pooch, the ported subs are a massive improvement in every way.   The only meaningful sacrifice is size.  Cleaner output, no excursion issues, more output potential. You can have your opinion as to otherwise, but taking a page from your book, you've heard netiher system.

 

All of this^^^ goes to reading comprehension. Hard to discuss anything with someone who can't understand what's been written. Rofl.

 

Rofl, ok, totally doesn't matter. Your measurements previously supported by SL are all unaffected and continue to hold water. Ok.

 

Not sure I understand what "measurements previously supported by SL" means. I stand by every measurement I've ever posted. Care to be more specific? These drive-by one-liners mean nothing. I know you have little to no knowledge of SL, so help me out here. Flesh out your claim or leave it be.

Sorry, where did I claim 15db? The mic was working well, and verified against other measurement mics previously. I hadn't used it for a while and when I did, the frequency response was completely off. It appeared to still be linear.

 

 

I only save graphs and don't care much what the dozens of posted claims were, but it looks more like 15dB than 12dB to me. "Here we go, sealed vs ported". C'mon, man... that's funny stuff. WinISD replaces Josh and notnyt confirms it with a broken mic and pages of subjective jargon.

 

Completely ignoring the box size difference and cherry picking a frequency. It also shows only a 3 db difference at 10hz, and 12.5hz, and a 6db difference at 16hz, even with the advantage of a massive box. "This shows a pair of LMS ultra will Trounce the SI24". Silly, yeah?  The arguments provided were anything but bullshit.  The bullshit was the claims some made that the SI24 will best 5 Ultras or other high quality 18s.  I wasn't even just comparing it to the just ultra, but any high excursion 18 inch driver.  I specifically was talking about Zv4 and HST18 in many of the examples given.  The Zv4 is only 6db off at 30hz, even with the bigger box and giant baffle. Did Nick appoint you his white knight or did you fill this role on your own? Since when is discussing and arguing about this stuff something to get so bent about.  Others may have been attacking the Le and Xmax claims, but I steered clear of that entire discussion.  I only partook in the output to displacement discussions.  The results show single SI24 is equal to about 2 18s, which is all I was claiming.  Having multiple drivers with more coil will obviously give you improved long term power handling with less compression, even while in a smaller enclosure.  With an enclosure the size of the SI24 enclosure, a pair of drivers like the UXL18 or the Ultra in a vented alignment would be so far ahead it's absurd ( in the ranges that matter ).

 

Wow. This sort of post is why I included you in my post.

 

Cherry picking a single frequency? Can you interpret the results at all? I've heard the pair vs the single HS24. Have you? Have you even seen the HS24? I say it takes 4 of the LMS-U to hang with a single HS24. Two is funny shit. We even checked to make sure the pair weren't polarity reversed. So far ahead it's absurd. BTW, what the hell does that mean? Lose octaves and play louder, yeah? Just like them good ole car days when we was bangin' it, but let's scrutinize 10 Hz like we're serious about displacement in the single digits when we're piling on Nick.

 

I support Nick like I support anyone who is a valuable poster when he's being gang-raped by morons who don't know what they're talking about. He builds the best drivers available vs your vaporware third edition clang-to-dent thousand dollar Ultras.

 

Are you just upset because the ported resurgence cuts into your margins?  At least that I could understand.

 

Nice try with the whole margins and ported resurgence bullshit. Really, is that all you got?

[nyt]

u mad?  u mad.  Build some more sonotube subs you'll feel better.

 

Hey look it's the same graph again that I said was taken with a bad mic.  Is this the basis for your dissent?

 

Ricci's own measurements show only 3db difference at 10hz and 12.5hz.  Handicapped by a smaller box and smaller baffle.  You love the ULF, but suddenly this means nothing to you.  Does it really take 4 drivers in your world to overcome that gap?

 

You know very well what I mean when I reference the hundreds of SL graphs you've posted where you try to show linear frequency response using a tool that was not producing linear results.

 

My reading comprehension is fine btw, perhaps work on the incoherent babble.

 

Keep on drinking that kool-aid.

[Infrasonic]

Oh boy...