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HST18 / HS24


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Hello All,   Sorry for the long radio silence.. work (as always) kept me from any progress on the cinema project. Last weekend however I finished all cabinets.. the 4 HS24 twins and the 4 LowMid

THE BASSFULL EIGHT...

Leons wasn't being unable to push to the system limits the point? That's what I always go for. I consider acceptable headroom achieved when I'm starting to get scared of breaking things in the structu

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Hello all,

The drivers arrived today, these are really BIG and heavy units!
If these won't make bass... nothing will... 
The size alone puts a grin on you're face.. :) . these are monster drivers!
Shipping was fast, and they came perfectly packaged in a sturdy wooden crate..
Everything is looking perfect and feeling verry solid.

Cabinet buiding was a bit delayed.. but we start friday...
It will take a few more weeks... but I can't wait to fire em up...

 

best regards,
 

 

post-3361-0-08003800-1444157675_thumb.jpg

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Hello all,

 

The drivers arrived today, these are really BIG and heavy units!

If these won't make bass... nothing will... 

The size alone puts a grin on you're face.. :) . these are monster drivers!

Shipping was fast, and they came perfectly packaged in a sturdy wooden crate..

Everything is looking perfect and feeling verry solid.

 

Cabinet buiding was a bit delayed.. but we start friday...

It will take a few more weeks... but I can't wait to fire em up...

 

best regards,

 

 

I like the second driver from the left more than the others. Haha.   :P

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  • 3 weeks later...

Leons,

 

Just wanted to jump on here since I actually build a commercial sub using Nick's drivers.  My sealed enclosures for the HS24 are a little over 8.5 cu.ft. and with DSP using ground plane are flat from 14-180 Hz (+/-0.75 dB) and in the several rooms I've measured, they don't start rolling off until 7 Hz.  And they are really quick and tight so you could potentially remove the LAB subwoofers from the equation and simplify your system some (just a thought).  Also, so far I've always sold the 24s in pairs and one guy bought 4.  None of them have been able to get close to using anywhere near their potential.  So just want you to know you will have one heck of a sub system.  If you have any questions, let me know.

 

David

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all,

 

It has been a while since any progress on my HS24 cabs.. work swallowed me whole..

Two weeks ago I picked up where I left.. and immediately felt it was a good thing that

this project was delayed for a while.. getting back at it.. something felt not right..

 

My last design was based on a cab that could be converted between sealed and ported, but

it had a few issues..

- In sealed mode it had max excursion problems

- In ported mode it had less infrasound

- the cabinet layout was not flexible

- I wanted something that was “infrastrong” under my LABsubs.. on a 1:1 basis

 

I started rethinking how I could overcome some of the problems, and I think I got a little closer to the truth..:

Adding a little more height to the cabinet makes it possible to fit two drivers above each other,

this can be done on the small side and on the wide side (see attachement)

- With two drivers in one cab it now has no max excursion issues in sealed mode

- With two drivers in one cab it feels very strong in infra!

- The cabinet layout in the new design is more flexible

- It comes closer to keep up with the LAB’s

- since this became a more complex build anyway, I might as well incorporate the hybrid idea.. just to be able to

experience the difference of ported vs sealed…

 

Building should have started today, I asked Jan the builder to take some pictures.. but nothing so far..

either he didn’t start or he does not bother for the pictures.. I’ll go over to the shop Wednesday..

 

One major issue with this new configuration is that I’m building four cabinets…

Yes.. I called Nick for four more… I hope he’s merciful on me..

 

I’ll keep you posted..

best Leon

HS24 twin.pdf

flange and portstop .pdf

port cross section.pdf

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So this is it...

 

This is how the world ends...

 

Not an asteroid. Not a super virus. Not a zombie apocalypse. Not even a taco bell bathroom accident gone global.

 

No. 8 HS24"s in a 2900 cubic foot space. The world is going to get vibrated into fragments of its former self.  :huh:   :D

 

In all seriousness... With that much displacement your walls are going to become passive radiators. This redefines the meaning of overkill--and we love it!

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So with 4 HS-24s, I think you could actually do damage to your home if you tried hard enough.  With 8 HS-24s, you might just be able to do damage to your neighbors' homes too!

I saw pics on the AVS forum of someone's staircase cracking and separating from the wall/house due to bass. I forget who it was, maybe N8dogg? I guess the larger your room and the more open it is, the less chances of destruction?

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I imagine everyone is engaging in humorous hyperbole here, but just in case...

 

One driver (doesn't matter which), driven by an amplifier that is capable of pushing the system to it's limit, plus some headroom equals 'x'.

 

Add another driver so that you now have 2 of them and that equals 'x' plus 3dB. It will equal 'x' plus 6dB if you also add a second identical amplifier, assuming proper mains for 2 amps and proper placement in the room that results in only constructive reflections across the system's bandwidth (not likely, but we're playing around with numbers here).

 

Now, add two more drivers so that we have 4 identical drivers in identical boxes and that equals 'x' plus 6dB. Again, go to 4 identical amplifiers with proper mains and the system gives an added 12dB.

 

Double the driver/box count again and assume perfectly harmonious placement and you have 8 identical passive subs that potentially equal 'x' plus 9dB. Go to 8 identical amplifiers, each on proper mains, and you have 'x' plus 18dB.

 

Using the HS-24, the 18dB potential increase in headroom over a single driver/amp system means eight PowerSoft K-20 amplifiers, eight dedicated 220V-50A home run outlets and eight HS-24 drivers, each in a proper size enclosure and placed perfectly in the room.

 

If a single version of this system has a max top end of 126dB at 30 Hz, where room gain begins, and there are zero destructive reflections from eight of them in-room, you have headroom to 144dB from a system that only cost  $60,000, with no signal shaping or EQ hardware.

 

Yes... very likely.

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If someone wanted to use a subwoofer with more displacement and boost the low end with an amp that can handle this it will have more SPL than a smaller displacement driver. Then add in four more subs and there ya go. Just like Bosso stated earlier. So would it be a big difference, YES. How much , I dont have the FTW on file this second to compare but I am guessing around 2db or more per driver depending on a lot of variables. Size of cabinet, frequency ect ect.

 

Lots and lots of variables. Its never as easy and as simple as a which is louder or better. Room available, budget, frequency response, power available and so on and so on. For best value driver I would just wait until next year and get Nick's 18DS4. If wanting a premium driver and have room then HS24. If you want to only value SPL and thats it then buying the best value is the better option for you. I prefer having the best driver I can get and going from there. The biggest I can fit is a 15 so 15HST it is for me. If I had room for a 21" then I would have room for a HS24. SO HS24 it would be.

 

I think they both look like amazing drivers but I do prefer my 15HST over the FTW's I had in the past. BUT that shouldnt really mean anything to anyone because this is only my opinion. My journey has been a long one and a very individual one at that. SO we all come to our own conclusions by experience. Well some do .....lol

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I imagine everyone is engaging in humorous hyperbole here, but just in case...

 

One driver (doesn't matter which), driven by an amplifier that is capable of pushing the system to it's limit, plus some headroom equals 'x'.

 

Add another driver so that you now have 2 of them and that equals 'x' plus 3dB. It will equal 'x' plus 6dB if you also add a second identical amplifier, assuming proper mains for 2 amps and proper placement in the room that results in only constructive reflections across the system's bandwidth (not likely, but we're playing around with numbers here).

 

Now, add two more drivers so that we have 4 identical drivers in identical boxes and that equals 'x' plus 6dB. Again, go to 4 identical amplifiers with proper mains and the system gives an added 12dB.

 

Double the driver/box count again and assume perfectly harmonious placement and you have 8 identical passive subs that potentially equal 'x' plus 9dB. Go to 8 identical amplifiers, each on proper mains, and you have 'x' plus 18dB.

 

Using the HS-24, the 18dB potential increase in headroom over a single driver/amp system means eight PowerSoft K-20 amplifiers, eight dedicated 220V-50A home run outlets and eight HS-24 drivers, each in a proper size enclosure and placed perfectly in the room.

 

If a single version of this system has a max top end of 126dB at 30 Hz, where room gain begins, and there are zero destructive reflections from eight of them in-room, you have headroom to 144dB from a system that only cost  $60,000, with no signal shaping or EQ hardware.

 

Yes... very likely.

 

 

I think people might see Josh's CEA2010 max burst numbers and think it requires K10/K20 power to get to those numbers.  While that may be true for 30hz and up in most, if not all, cases, it's certainly not the case for ULF (~15hz and lower).

 

Take the UM18-22 for example.  It had a maximum SPL of 90.2db at 10hz under the CEA2010 requirements.  Josh noted that at 10hz, the driver had a resistance of ~5.1ohm, and it only took 56.4v to reach that 90.2db.  That's only ~623w.

 

Or the Fi SP4 18D1.  Resistance of ~2.485ohm at 12.5hz, and with 44.8v was able to hit 95.2db at 12.5hz.  That's only ~807w.

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