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HST18 / HS24


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Hello All,

 

I'm in the middle of a home theater build (see attached pictures)
I was planning to build 4 Gjallarhorns as the subs under my existing system.
Recommended drivers are: TCsounds LMSultra 5400 or Mach5 UXL-18
Both drivers seem to be unavailable at this time.

 

In another thread on this forum I got this advice:
"You could go with 4xSI HS24's and call it a day. With Vented or Sealed cabs they'll match up well"

I just mailed to Stereo integrity and asked for availability and pricing of their HST18 and HS24 drivers.


THE PARAMETERS:
Room size is: 224x224" ceiling heigt is 103"
It wille be a 7.2 surround system

Each of the 7 channels consist of
1x top:  http://www.audio-performance.com/products/sk-f
1xl owmid:  http://www.audio-performance.com/products/lm3-f-0
the .1  are 4 LAB subwoofers
Everything is powered bij 6 Lab gruppen FP10000Q (2 original and 4 clones)
Mains is 110A divided into 12 x 20A (240V)

For the .2  I was planning the 4 Gjallarhorns.. I needed them only for the 15/40Hz band, above that the LAB's take over.. 
 
I hope someone here can help me out with an alternative cabinet design for either:
4x doubleHST18 cabinet
4x single   HS24 cabinet
4x doubleHS24 (I have to carefully consider the budget for this version...)
For power I will order some extra FP14000 clones

I would like to be able to put a LAB on top of these subs so that leaves me with a heigt restriction for the new subs of 57"
This gives me the ability to put a sub and an LAB in each corner. 

For the width and depth of the cabinet I have no restrictions (within reason) the LAB's are already big, bur these will be obviously bigger...

 

Any further advice and/or help would be appreciated.

 

thanks

best regards,

Leon

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Hello All,   Sorry for the long radio silence.. work (as always) kept me from any progress on the cinema project. Last weekend however I finished all cabinets.. the 4 HS24 twins and the 4 LowMid

THE BASSFULL EIGHT...

Leons wasn't being unable to push to the system limits the point? That's what I always go for. I consider acceptable headroom achieved when I'm starting to get scared of breaking things in the structu

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Wow. That will be quite a system. :)

 

I'm not sure exactly what advice you need from us at this point. All of these proposed systems will be more than adequate for even a crazy "basshead". Figure out if you want the 24's or the 18's and then we can go from there.

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Hello Infrasonic,

I don't mind if it are 18's or 24's I would like as much spl and extension as I can get (obviously the 24's have the UBER cool looks)

 

Maby it is a good idea to define a max cabinet size..?

If I would go for a max of:    57" high /  30"wide  /  59" deep
For the form-factor I would like the drivers to be on the 30x57 side.

 

What spl and extension can be achieved?

 

I think the 30x57 side gives enough room for 2 ported 18's  or  1 ported 24" (how would they compare spl and extension-wise?
(I really don't know how big the ports need to be!!) that's where I need the help if possible..)
The 30x57 side is probably not big enough for 2 ported 24"s but big enough for 2 sealed 24's (how would that compare against the better of the above mentioned two?)
 

What would you guy's suggest / advise / do..?

Keep in mind that I only need a verry narrow bandwith say 15 to 40 Hz...

 

thanks,
best regards,
Leon
 

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So you're not sure yet if you want to go sealed or ported?

 

Again, you should really figure out this kind of thing and then we can help you design something. One will not be like the other. However, if you want maximum output in just a narrow bandwidth maybe you should go vented. Just know that could be a bit of a challenge with both drivers. They are very high displacement drivers and will quickly overload the porting at high power.

 

So give it some thought. ;)

 

Two HST18's will cost around $1,000 US and a single HS24 is the same. Both in comparable Qtc sealed enclosures with similar power will be about the same SPL output.

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So you're not sure yet if you want to go sealed or ported?

 

Again, you should really figure out this kind of thing and then we can help you design something. One will not be like the other. However, if you want maximum output in just a narrow bandwidth maybe you should go vented. Just know that could be a bit of a challenge with both drivers. They are very high displacement drivers and will quickly overload the porting at high power.

 

So give it some thought. ;)

 

Two HST18's will cost around $1,000 US and a single HS24 is the same. Both in comparable Qtc sealed enclosures with similar power will be about the same SPL output.

 

Good post. Primarily true and the 24 will play lower cleaner than two HST-18's. The only way that two HST-18's can stay with one sealed 24 is if the HST-18's are ported as you mentioned. But note that below tuning the 24 takes off with more output. 

 

Semi-OT to the thread starter: My email is down right now but it will be back up in a little bit. MS Office 365 tends to have these glitches at night. 

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Hello All,

Based on the above: ( if you want maximum output in just a narrow bandwidth maybe you should go vented   /   2 x 18 or 1 x 24 about the same SPL output  /  and the 24 will play lower cleaner than two HST-18's)   Than the choise is clear: 24" and vented.

How about something like in the attachement?

I changed te sizes of a solid 2x18" design up by 133% so that it should fit 2 x 24" drivers (it came very close to the max size I have available)
Can anybody help me further?

How would a cabinet this size with the 2 x 24 sim? (max SPL and extension wise)
How big and long need the ports be?
Will it work at all for the intended 15/40Hz band?

 

 

thanks,

best regards,

Leon
 

2 x 24 HS ported .pdf

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I tried winisd-pro to work out the design, but I cant get it to work correct.

Most of the screens show nothing.. no response curve, no max spl, strange (negative) port lenghts...

At first i thougt i did something wrong, but the program gives al sorts of strange error reports when shutting down.

I tried two new downloads but the same thing happens.

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To properly port a 24 and get response down to 15hz, you need something like 26 cuft or so. That is 52 cuft for a pair of 24's. This would be the size of a full size fridge.  I think you take a step back and think about your requirements for a second

How much output are you really looking for?

Why just 15-40hz? Anything you build should be more than capable up to 80-100hz and will likely be better at doing it than just about any mains speaker could, and there is content below 15hz in movies that you will be leaving off the table with ported. That debate can be argued to death I know, but still take it into consideration.

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Hello BeastAudio,

 

Thanks for you're response.

Above 40Hz my LAB subwoofers take over.

Above 80Hz my lowmids take over. (Audio performance LM3)

Above 120Hz my tops take over (Audio Performance SKf)

 

i'm in search for something that goes "frequency-wise" under the LAB's.

So something that is very strong below 40Hz.

 

My initial choise were Gjallarhorns (they seem perfect for this task)

But it seems it only properly works with only 2 drivers LMSultra and the UXL-18 both unavailable.

 

that brougt me to the alternative of the ported twin 24..

for the refrigerator size... i like my subs bigger than my fridge....

And stepping back about my sub requirements... never!

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Leons - I have two Gjallarhorns and two hs24 in a dual opposed alignment.  The hs24 is crossed at 40hz, like you mentioned that you would like to do.  The amount of content below the knee of the Ghorns was surprising to me and it can be done with more smaller sealed subs, but it's nice to blend it in nicely with the Ghorns in a single cab.

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Hello All,

I just pulled the trigger and ordered 4 of Nicks finest!
 

I'm not completely shure but I'm leaning towards 4 ported cabinets, each with one HS24, outside dimensions 30x45x60" per cab. tuned to 15 or 18Hz
I don't trust winisd for its max SPL output prediction, can somebody with more experience and a more accurate program help me out?
I'm aiming for Gjallarhorn performance, is above cabinet demension enough?

thanks,
Leon
 


 

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Just going back to your room sizes...

 

224" x 224" x 103" = 18.5' x 18.5' x 8.5' = 2990 cubic feet, if my calculations are correct.

 

 

My room is 14' x 20' x 7.75' = 2100 cubic feet, and I'm running (only?!) four sealed SI HT18s. 

 

If I was scale up my system to ~3000 cubic feet (the size of your room) I could add another two SI HT18s.

 

 

Using this scaled up system to compare it to the output of 4 x HS24s in your room...:

 

 

6 x SI HT18s = 6 x 117841mm^2 Sd = 707046mm^2 Total System Sd.

 

4 x SI HS24s = 4 x 212943.8mm^2 Sd = 851775.2mm^2 Total System Sd ( = ~20% more than 6x18s = another 1.2 18s!)

 

 

I have enough bass to piss off the neighbours (badly!), and watching the opening 10 minutes of Art of Flight at Reference on my AVR with 9dB of subwoofer boost, I have 119dB at the seats, according to my Radioshack SPL meter.

 

 

So, what I'm trying to say is that I think going ported in your room will be pointless - in that you will have so much headroom in the system that you will never use all the power and excursion if you want a balanced sound or even one with a reasonable level of bass boost that doesn't completely overwhelm the mids and treble.  You will also be chopping off the whole bottom end of the frequency spectrum, and you will be adding some group delay into the system.

 

 

Four Sealed HS24s should give you incredible output down to single digit Hz (depending on your signal chain roll-off) and it is that body-shaking bass that you can feel but can't hear which really feels impressive and slightly scary when there's lots of it.

 

I would strongly encourage you to go Sealed!

 

 

 

(Sd measurements taken from SI's site:

http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-18-subwoofer/#tab-ts-parameters

http://stereointegrity.com/product/hs24-24-subwoofer/#tab-ts-parameters)

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Hello MemX,

Thanks for you're response, highly appreciated! I'm going to take this in to consideration.

There are two main reasons why I tend towards the 18 Hz. ported route..

1) I wonder how much usable content there is in modern movies... say below 12Hz. (that is where the sealed starts getting the advantage over the ported) in
the WinISD sim...I really don't know.. never had a system that can reproduce these frequencies accurate and with serious spl..

2) Isn't it smarter to build ported... that gives me the option to just block the ports and have a sealed system in minutes..? or am I missing something?

best regards,

Leon

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1) I wonder how much usable content there is in modern movies... say below 12Hz. (that is where the sealed starts getting the advantage over the ported) in

the WinISD sim...I really don't know.. never had a system that can reproduce these frequencies accurate and with serious spl..

Put it this way: there's enough usable content in many modern movies to force you into putting a high pass filter on your ported subs to keep them at safe excursion levels (assuming you have amplifier headroom).  I love experiencing ULF even if it's in a basement and I don't like the idea of chopping off part of the bandwidth that is encoded on the disc. 

 

You'll start to notice what a touchy subject this is.  There are many people on both sides of the fence (ported and sealed) and they are equally as passionate about their choice.  The choice is yours in the end.  If you go sealed you can build a smaller enclosure and experience ULF.  If you go ported you will gain a few dB around port tune.  To me it's a question of if you need the extra SPL at port tune to satisfy your thirst for SPL. 

 

I recently made a friend of mine an analog LT EQ curve for his ported rhythmic cheapo 12".  We stuffed the port and hooked it up with about 11dB of boost down low which changed the F3 from 20Hz to 11Hz.  I thought everything we listened to sounded punchier even music.  Might have something to do with the group delay that MemX was referring to, I don't really know.  I dig sealed. 

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You can do the ported/sealed combo thing, but with the larger box size, over-excursion could become a problem in the sealed config, depending on signal chain rolloff...and sealing the ports may be easier said than done.

 

The Bass Content Forum here is dedicated to content with infrasonic or ultra low frequency content.  It is there, and it makes a difference, even below 12Hz.

 

JSS

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