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I seem to live in a parallel dimension. Please explain how one would use amplifier 'X' for only 50 Hz and up only? Not possible. The amp used is the amp used. According to conventional wisdom of this forum, all of Josh's DIY numbers are pretty useless because they are impossible to repeat in the real world.

 

Again. No one disagrees with the amp part that I know of.

 

Pretty sure if I / you / anybody takes my equipment or similar and goes out and tests the same driver / cab with the same amp in the same manner the results will be the same within a small margin. I believe what you mean to say is that it is inadvisable to use an amplifier that powerful on them in a turn key finished system without appropriate extremely close scrutiny of the gain and content being fed to it. That would be correct.

 

The burst data for the passive systems is not useless by any means. Provided that it is understood what the purpose of it is and how it can be useful. It has nothing to do with a direct comparison of finished turn key systems versus the passive drivers on the stupid overkill amp. I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this. The people who do know how to interpret and read the provided data know this. Yes there are people who do. A lot of them are here. Using what is provided one could easily make a very close guess at what an actual finished system using the driver of choice would likely perform like and what would be a good match for a power plant.

 

I get it you don't like the fact that I use the big amp and or some of the tests I do and consider them useless to some extent. Myself and many others do find use in it so it will be continued.

 

 

If you want to match Josh Ricci's DataBass THD-limited long term/short term 1/3 octave frequencies and 10-80 Hz averages and maximum sine sweep numbers, you need a K-10 on a dedicated 220V-50A line. Add additional amplifier as you double drivers if you want to add +6dB to those numbers each doubling... blanket... period. (There is no frequency band discrimination possible. Please explain what is the brain disorder that clouds this fact?)

 

You do not need the test amp to provide the long term sine sweep measurements. Out of the 60? or so passive systems tested there were a handful that actually could take the whole amp without the driver grenading or melting and in those cases the drivers were clearly not happy. Most of them tap out with less than 2Kw applied. Some less than 1Kw during the sweeps. You also do not need the big amp for the burst numbers in the deep bass for the vast majority of systems tested other than a handful. Just like Luke and myself have said already multiple times in this thread. The only thing the big amp really gets tapped into on is the split second bursts above 50Hz.

 

You brought the burst data into it. No one else is looking at 50-100Hz burst data as a gauge of the requirements of the amplifier to do the job well. What does this have to do with the original comments?

 

Your position seems to be assuming that the consensus is calculating some type of theoretical output numbers 133.7dB at 50Hz or whatever (Then add +6dB,+12dB or whatever) based on the burst tests here. Exactly who here has been doing that? Example? None of that matters at all and most people posting here seem to understand. You use an amp capable of working well with the driver/s / enclosure. Then clone / multiply speakers and amps as desired. Doesn't matter if you use a 100w amp or a 3Kw amp. There's your full 6dB. Period.

 

As for the GTG segment that Josh refers to as being "infamous" and is concluding involved material that was not demanding... If the HS-24 is being driven to within a hair breadth of X-mech when the 8000 watt amplifier on a dedicated 120V-30A line shuts down, exactly what should that scenario be referred to as if not demanding? That BS gets a complete pass while youse guys are still gnawing on the K-20/driver sentence?

 

As for the scene in Lone Survivor, we can safely eliminate the 6.5 Hz portion of the source as the sub under test is down -18dB at 6 Hz. Paul and I are running a thorough examination of the data gathered and digits involved in the latest GTG incident that Josh has decreed was the result of demanding material in contrast to the infamous GTG incident. Adam, Paul & I had decided not to mention that incident at all but since Josh has let that cat out of the bag by referencing it here, after we run the conclusions past Dave, we may or may not discuss those conclusions.

 

I'll just say again, citing any results from the antics involved at a typical GTG, good or bad, is no way for anyone to design a sub.

 

Yep I'm tripling down on it...NOT demanding on the driver. Not as demanding anyway clearly. Pushing the 24 to xmech in 17 cubes or whatever doesn't take as much power as you might think. Wasn't some of that in free air to? Lots of excursion at music type frequencies (20-40Hz) means lots of cooling in the motor. In comparison it simply wasn't as demanding. I never brought up the stuff from the last GTG either. Actually that seemed to be Nick, Dave, you and everyone else who kept hinting around about it afterward. If the comments with the K20 needed for power were not made by you, which you now admit was not a serious suggestion for power to the driver, even though you are still arguing with everyone on various unrelated sub-topics and at first defended the statement, it would never have been brought up. Then you made further left field comments based on comments from some unknown person who I can't figure or seem to find anywhere about how someone is suggesting to use a 1kW amp for the driver. Who and where? All this came up because you just won't admit you made a mistake or misspoke or whatever the hell it was. It's not a big deal I do it all the time.

 

Lately it seems like you are always on the defensive and looking for attacks that aren't there. You made a post a few people thought was BS including me. It was called out. Don't read more into it than what is there.

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Hello All,   Sorry for the long radio silence.. work (as always) kept me from any progress on the cinema project. Last weekend however I finished all cabinets.. the 4 HS24 twins and the 4 LowMid

THE BASSFULL EIGHT...

Leons wasn't being unable to push to the system limits the point? That's what I always go for. I consider acceptable headroom achieved when I'm starting to get scared of breaking things in the structu

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Hello all.

Regarding build progres:

I have been out of the country for the last two weeks so I could not check regarding build progress on the cabinets.

I will be back next monday. I hope they.... If not I....

Regarding amp power:

I have 4 ohm HS24s

my gut feeling tels me that one channel of a QSCPL380 per HS24 (2500W / 4ohm) is not a bad match but on the lower/minimum side needed...

my gut feeling also tels me that a bridged K20 per HS24 (18000W 4 ohm)  is on the high side of the scale... probably off the scale...

I now tend towards fp14000 clones.. one channel per HS24 (4600W) per driver... if driven with care its seems like a "solid headroom option"

the only issue is the reliability of the chinese clones.. I ordered 4 Sanway fp10000 clones a year ago .. 3 work perfect so far.. the 4th did nothing...  

I will compare the PL380 and FP14000 before I make a decision.. I will post my findings...

 

Regarding filters:

I have a Marantz AV8801 processor (it has 2 subwoofer outputs)

What would you consider a good cross-over unit to filter these sub outputs once they come out of the Marantz..

 

I'm planning to use the sub outs as follows:

sub-out 1 will drive the 8 HS24's (crossed zero to 35Hz maby 40Hz) so they will do only what they're good at... move air..

sub out 2 will drive the 4 LAB subwoofers (crossed 35 to 80Hz) that's what these are good at.

 

I know mini dsp is an option, do you guy's know any other/better options.?

and one more thing... how the heXX can I get an icon... whatever I try It won't work...

 

 

thank's

best regards,

Leon

 

Hey Leon :)

 

I hope you are having a good time away!

 

If you like the Clone amps but are unsure of their reliability, look at Bossobass' website - Bosso has re-worked Clone amps to be strong and reliable, as discussed elsewhere on this forum, so they could be the ideal solution for you, along with his signal shaper for the very bottom end!

 

I think you should try running the 24s 'full range', to 100Hz or more, as from what I have read on here, they will be more than capable :)

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When we were face to face, I told you and Dave the exact same thing about my experiences with a sealed system in my old room that I've posted online.  There was no deviation.  However, Dave's responses to the exact same information in person vs. online was a 180 degree turn.  He wasn't the same sarcastic and passive aggressive person that he is online.

 

EDIT:  I've already covered all of this in the GTG thread, so you have anything else to say about it, you have my cell or you can send me a PM. 

That's bullshit and no PM's, you bring it up here, we're having it out here cause I wouldn't want to be passive agressive.  What happened in the GTG thread wasn't the same conversation at the GTG at all.  Instead of telling us at the GTG that you thought the CC sounded harsh you waited until you were on this forum to say whatever negative comments about his system.  Then you went on to escalate it in the typical passive aggressive way you've done on everything you can think of since in whatever thread you can find.  Yeah, I can just see it now... imagine that when I went to Beastaudio's recent GTG, I don't smile once, refuse to go outside and socialize with him cause it's too cold, tell him I can't sense the ULF cause it's a basement then go online and say it was great, except his system wasn't setup right, then I pick apart his posts and when he gets pissed I call him passive aggressive.  Would something seem wrong with that to you guys too?  Passive aggressive you say?  Yeah right, I hear ya bud.  You brought up something publicly in the GTG thread that Dave had posted in one of your threads long before the GTG happened that bothered you.  Meanwhile you were just at his house and could've handled the situation directly with him.  What exactly was the reason for your visit because at this point it is blatantly apparent that it wasn't to make friends. 

 

Now I guess I'm the idiot who doesn't know what to do with the data of a sweep that's at such a high power level that it will last "a fraction of a second" before "turning the thing into a grenade".  What formula for system design does that fit into, I must have overlooked it. 

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That's bullshit and no PM's, you bring it up here, we're having it out here cause I wouldn't want to be passive agressive.  What happened in the GTG thread wasn't the same conversation at the GTG at all.  Instead of telling us at the GTG that you thought the CC sounded harsh you waited until you were on this forum to say whatever negative comments about his system.  Then you went on to escalate it in the typical passive aggressive way you've done on everything you can think of since in whatever thread you can find.  Yeah, I can just see it now... I go to Beastaudio's GTG, don't smile once, refuse to go outside and socialize with him cause it's too cold, tell him I can't sense the ULF cause it's a basement then go online and say it was great, except his system wasn't setup right, then I pick apart his posts and when he gets pissed I call him passive aggressive.  Something seem wrong with that to you guys too?  Passive aggressive you say?  Yeah right, I hear ya bud.  You brought up something publicly in the GTG thread that Dave had posted in one of your threads long before the GTG happened that bothered you.  Meanwhile you were just at his house and could've handled the situation directly with him.  What exactly was the reason for your visit because at this point it is blatantly apparent that it wasn't to make friends. 

 

Now I guess I'm the idiot who doesn't know what to do with the data of a sweep that's at such a high power level that it will last "a fraction of a second" before "turning the thing into a grenade".  What formula for system design does that fit into, I must have overlooked it. 

 

Everything you just posted is way off.

 

First, you brought it up and re-directed it personally towards me.  I was very specific with my disagreements about Dave's post, so no reading in between the lines is needed.

 

Second, I asked your father to his face if he would turn the main volume down by 6db and then bump the sub trim by +6db because and I quote "that center is killing me".  Like the excellent host that he is he agreed without question.  You're also well aware that something, probably allergies, gave me a very severe headache while I was on my way there.  I'm allergic to anything green outside and it only gets worse out of state.  Your mother could easily tell something wasn't quite right, and asked how I was doing and gave me some Aleve I think.  I didn't go outside because the weather.  I've lived in Minnesota since I was 4 years old, so I don't find 90+ degree weather with high humidity very comfortable, and as I mentioned before, my head was killing me.  At several points while I was there I almost had to run to the men's room to vomit because my headache was so bad.  No smiles, huh?  That's quite an exaggeration as I had a wonderful time. 

 

Besides the center being too loud for my taste, I never said anything negative about Dave's system anywhere.  Prove me wrong and find something.  You won't because it doesn't exist.  I've only had high praise. 

 

Me and Dave disagreed with the tactile effects of <15hz long before I was there, so I brought it up again while at his house.  I thought finding common ground would be a lot easier face to face, and to my surprise, neither you or Dave disagreed with anything I was saying.  On the contrary, Dave even offered a few suggestions that supported my points.  Needless to say I didn't expect that.

 

Bottom line, I disagreed with Dave's post in this thread along with a few others and was specific with why.  You can re-direct towards me all you want but it doesn't change anything.

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SO what exactly are we arguing about?

 

I ask because if all of you met in person you figure you would know how each other are so online things would flow differently. I feel like we are trying to nit pick everything to the extreme. I know most here know exactly how to design a subwoofer system. And yet we are still arguing about that. Seems like some are getting bent out of shape because, perhaps, the context is being taken the wrong way. I know at times I have to read Bosso's posts a few times to distinguish if he is being sarcastic or not. And sometimes I have to see his second post to know for sure. I dont get upset about it because I know what works and what doesnt. I also know he knows what he is talking about so I just let it go. No blame anywhere just the way things are in the inline world.

 

This forum is great because the main people I follow for knowledge and experience are all here. And most of the time we are all just shooting the shit and its happy days.

 

SO I just wanted to say I hope we can get things back on track and make sure that everyone has a K20 per speaker for any subwoofer system. SARCASM because in real life I like being a smart ass.

 

Sorry for any spelling errors or grammatically incorrect sentences. :)

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Shreds,

 

We were cool up until these last few posts and I'm not sure where things went south.  Whatever is going on it sucks and I want to move past it.

 

It's a bad idea for either of us to start with "revisionist history" type stuff from a GTG ~7 months ago.  After some disagreements in the GTG thread, that we all moved past, I had this to say:

 

"I had a blast at the GTG, and I'm thankful you were willing to host it.  Even though it was your first GTG, you nailed it.  Your family was generous and gracious, and a complete pleasure to hang out with.  I thought the discussion was meaningful, insightful, and I learned a lot.

 

As I mentioned before, I couldn't find any shortcoming whatsoever with your Raptors.  The extended to depths I've rarely heard, if ever, and had SPL levels that can satisfy 99% of the craziest bass heads out there.  I think your subs combined with your room are a match made in heaven, and if my HT space were similar to yours, I have sealed as well.  No question."

 

Nothing has changed since then and I still feel the same way.  There was ZERO tension between anyone at that GTG and everyone loved it.  It's a fond memory for me and I won't let this thread ruin it. 

 

What should be telling is that only a few weeks after this GTG I contacted Mach5/IST and decided to give sealed another try.  So yeah, I was impressed. 

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I have allergies too, they don't make me socially catatonic when I'm a guest or I'd just stay home.  Pick one or the other Luke.  We're friends and we're nice to each other or we pick apart each other's posts and constantly fight to the point of ruining someone's thread.  You justify your constant calling out Bosso with one nice post?  Nice try.  You claim Dave's online behavior is different than when you were a guest in his house and you are just as guilty or more of the same thing.  You can paint the picture one sided all you want but it's you who repeatedly calls him and only him out to the point of calling him passive aggressive.  That's bullshit.  You want us to be cool again?  Stop and we will. 

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SO what exactly are we arguing about?

 

I ask because if all of you met in person you figure you would know how each other are so online things would flow differently. I feel like we are trying to nit pick everything to the extreme. I know most here know exactly how to design a subwoofer system. And yet we are still arguing about that. Seems like some are getting bent out of shape because, perhaps, the context is being taken the wrong way. I know at times I have to read Bosso's posts a few times to distinguish if he is being sarcastic or not. And sometimes I have to see his second post to know for sure. I dont get upset about it because I know what works and what doesnt. I also know he knows what he is talking about so I just let it go. No blame anywhere just the way things are in the inline world.

 

This forum is great because the main people I follow for knowledge and experience are all here. And most of the time we are all just shooting the shit and its happy days.

 

SO I just wanted to say I hope we can get things back on track and make sure that everyone has a K20 per speaker for any subwoofer system. SARCASM because in real life I like being a smart ass.

 

Sorry for any spelling errors or grammatically incorrect sentences. :)

 

 

Yes, most everyone got what I posted. For anyone who didn't, a simple question is all it takes.

 

I was trying to steer the discussion to the signal chain. If one is spending the kind of stew it takes to birth a quad of Nick's King Of The Heap HS-24s, then extra ink might be warranted to nail down the preamp, signal shaping and amplification.

 

It turned into a situation where Ricci seems to think he can throw any old paragraph at me and walk away, regardless of how mistaken he may be.

 

I apologize for many times, due to a lot less time to spend in forums than I used to, being obtuse, but honestly the page that preceded my post was just a slew of "wow, your dick will fall off with that many subs!" posts (that shit has always been obtuse to me, sorry) and I thought the actuality of multiples should be mentioned.

 

Contrary to what Josh posted, I get many PMs and e-mails asking about multiple driver systems and many include the misconception that each doubling of whatever driver Josh tests will result in adding +6dB to his output numbers. Use the wrong preamp and amplifier and you may buy 4 of whatever driver and yield LESS output than Josh's results with a single driver.

 

Contrary to what Josh posted, most of them look only at the CEA output max numbers averaged over the bandwidth of interest. Hell, some manufacturers use those numbers to tout the superiority of their sub vs a competitor's and the masses split them like the Hadron Collider. They rarely even mention the compression sweeps results and generally ignore THD and compression altogether.

 

I don't care what amp, box, copied methodology or presentation of the data is used by Josh or anyone else. Sad that he would think I do. I just prefer to post in a thread rather than answer the same Q a dozen times in PM.

 

For the record, I disagree that 1 or 2KW per HS24 is sufficient. I've used more than that for each of Adire's 15" drivers with XBl^2 VCs, which have less power handling capability than a standard overhung VC. As Paul said earlier, we've never fried a VC. I still have a perfectly functioning Raven, loaded with a pair of Tumult MKIIs. Paul's never fried an amplifier, but I surely have. A Marathon MA 5050, an AA V6001 (three times) and various and sundry 5 to 8KW amps.

 

I also disagree that the thread is derailed. The subject is important. If guys like Luke and Josh think the info is beneath them and post accordingly, then shit will hit the fan. But, there are people reading the info for the information that will filter through the ego tripping and posturing because it's good information.

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I have allergies too, they don't make me socially catatonic when I'm a guest or I'd just stay home.  Pick one or the other Luke.  We're friends and we're nice to each other or we pick apart each other's posts and constantly fight to the point of ruining someone's thread.  You justify your constant calling out Bosso with one nice post?  Nice try.  You claim Dave's online behavior is different than when you were a guest in his house and you are just as guilty or more of the same thing.  You can paint the picture one sided all you want but it's you who repeatedly calls him and only him out to the point of calling him passive aggressive.  That's bullshit.  You want us to be cool again?  Stop and we will. 

 

Your memory of me during that GTG is different from what I remember and also different from what you already posted after the event.  Changing your mind 7 months later doesn't make sense. 

 

If I disagree with a post, I say something, and unfortunately me and Dave tend to frequently disagree.  However, from this point on I'll refrain from any remarks or comments that could be taken personally and I'd appreciate the same.  Cool?

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Sorry but I respond when I disagree with statements made. Especially when it brings my name up or the measurements. It's that simple.

Dave I know there are guys out there that do what you are saying. But I've posted a bunch about how that is not correct. I can't nanny all of them. The data is there for anyone to look at but as we both know it can and will be skewed and abused by people with agendas or who don't know better. You can't put that on me though.

At this point can we all agree that a 10kw amp is not needed for any one driver be it a A14K a K10 or a FP14000?

No one ever said that a much lower powered amp than what Dgage uses was needed for these SI drivers in small sealed. The point was that moving up to 3x the amp he uses is folly. The rest is all side confusion and off topic really.

 

I will see if I can do some testing with comparing the shaped burst signal, a pure sine wave and a wide band signal and look at the excursion induced. I can measure the voltage of the 2 test signals but I don't have a good way to capture it from a complex transient. Also the issue of what the complex transient should be is another thing. I can use the Hulk scene but any results would only apply to it. I'll have to think on it.

Back to Leon's specific situation. What's wrong with people having fun and posting about how massively overkill this will be? It's 8 24's most of us have experienced them and know it's going to be absurd amounts of headroom. If it were me I'd get 2 big dog amps and run 4 bridged off of each. A14K, SP12k, etc...It'll be plenty IMO.

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All I gotta say is, you have not lived until you've smelled a few VC's getting fried.  It's getting to be a permanent smell in my space as of late.  :P

 

Also, Paul dude, was it really that cold outside you couldn't hang out?  :D Good times. I am glad my g2g's get people talkin', whether controversial or not, I see it as a major success from my end.

 

So when's the next one? Mehehehe

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 I don't have a good way to capture it from a complex transient. Also the issue of what the complex transient should be is another thing. I can use the Hulk scene but any results would only apply to it. I'll have to think on it.

 

 

Danley Fireworks, shaped for extreme ULF extension or with more midbass.  Hard to find tougher transients to reproduce, but they may be too short in duration (unless you need that just to prevent a fried coil).  

 

JSS

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Sorry but I respond when I disagree with statements made. Especially when it brings my name up or the measurements. It's that simple.

 

Dave I know there are guys out there that do what you are saying. But I've posted a bunch about how that is not correct. I can't nanny all of them. The data is there for anyone to look at but as we both know it can and will be skewed and abused by people with agendas or who don't know better. You can't put that on me though.

 

At this point can we all agree that a 10kw amp is not needed for any one driver be it a A14K a K10 or a FP14000?

 

No one ever said that a much lower powered amp than what Dgage uses was needed for these SI drivers in small sealed. The point was that moving up to 3x the amp he uses is folly. The rest is all side confusion and off topic really.

 

I will see if I can do some testing with comparing the shaped burst signal, a pure sine wave and a wide band signal and look at the excursion induced. I can measure the voltage of the 2 test signals but I don't have a good way to capture it from a complex transient. Also the issue of what the complex transient should be is another thing. I can use the Hulk scene but any results would only apply to it. I'll have to think on it.

 

Back to Leon's specific situation. What's wrong with people having fun and posting about how massively overkill this will be? It's 8 24's most of us have experienced them and know it's going to be absurd amounts of headroom. If it were me I'd get 2 big dog amps and run 4 bridged off of each. A14K, SP12k, etc...It'll be plenty IMO.

 

The problem was a simple one; some folks took my post to mean that I actually think a K-20 on each single driver is required. How that's possible escapes me. Mike wondered aloud if it was sarcasm. Most saw it that way.

 

I've mentioned many times in the past that I prefer to control excursion with air spring. That led to the Ilkka LMS-U uber-small 75L vs 200L box tests. It was my contention that the air spring is much more linear than other methods, like aggressive limiting. So, yeah, then there's more power available before X-mech and that power may cook the VC in the wrong hands. I've done many, many dozens of experiments in this arena, thus, I most certainly have strong opinions as to what might be ideal and how to tweak it from there.

 

Let us know if you come up with any comparison method. It's an awesome thing when all that data can come with some instructions to aid comparison, for sure.

 

The bottom line here is the question that remains, and it's a question that every sub DIYer faces. What is the proper power for the build? I agree that running dual bridged 220V amps is probably the right choice, and, in fact, that's what I've said to him privately, while all the chatter was raging.

 

Meh, the whole teeth rattling, pants flapping nonsense has always irked me. Remember when the 25 Hz tuned 1x12" ported SVS sub was all the rage? People actually believed that sub could break a window, flap their pants, etc.! Are we all still in elementary school? It just saps credibility from the site to newcomers and foreign onlookers. I tend to view the threads from the perspective of the lurker who never posts because those are the vast majority of people who've PM'd me over the years. They far outnumber the posters and they lurk for golden info that they can and do use, internationally. The Marty's nuts foundation crumbling shit just confuses most of them. There's nothing wrong with fun stuff, it's just that for me the fun stuff is breakin' balls about fun stuff.

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I do much the same with sealed subs. Adjust the air volume to control excursion so that the an amount of power that I'd consider a "max", borderline sketchy even, can be used for max dynamic range. With a sealed system I always try to keep the available amp on tap just at or below a point that can get the driver in mechanical trouble. There are limits and compromises with shrinking the air space of course.

BTW I do have a data set from a couple years back from the LMS in a box of about 75L. It was the cab I was going to use for 15's. I think it's a complete set but I bet I changed a few things since then. Mostly software used probably. I always meant to post it up in a comparison to the 115L regular cab. EDIT: Scratch that. I checked and remember why it never got posted. This was the test where the surround glue detached from the cone in the sun so I didn't get the burst data or the THD data. Kinda pointless without that. I'll repeat with another 18 this year.

I get a lot of emails and pm's as well. They are all over the place.

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Don't push me into a corner with minutiae and we'll be fine. 

 

 

 

 

Me and Paul have exchanged quite a few PM's over the last few days, and there are some things I'd like to clear the air about:

 

1.  Me accusing Bosso of an abrasive and passive aggressive posting style was completely hypocritical of me.  I've reviewed most of our exchanges over the last year and I've found many my own posts to be guilty of exactly this.  I apologize and I'm making an attempt to completely remove this from my posts. 

 

2.  Me and Bosso don't disagree as often as I thought we did, but I think some tension sticks around because one of my strengths isn't giving credit where credit is due.  Shreds attitude/demeanor towards me isn't at all how I feel towards him and I'll take fault for this as well.  I've learned quite a bit from these two and I'll be sure to be more communicative of this in the future.

 

3.  My "basic amp testing" thread was prompted of a disagreement that me and Bosso had in Josh's "K20 vs. SP2-12000" thread.  Bosso and Shreds had questions that I couldn't answer, so when I finally did the research I learned a ton.  What I learned was so fun it sparked my amp testing thread.  Thank you, Bosso, for questioning my remarks when I didn't have the data to back it up.  I expect no less from you in the future.

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Me and Paul have exchanged quite a few PM's over the last few days, and there are some things I'd like to clear the air about:

 

1.  Me accusing Bosso of an abrasive and passive aggressive posting style was completely hypocritical of me.  I've reviewed most of our exchanges over the last year and I've found many my own posts to be guilty of exactly this.  I apologize and I'm making an attempt to completely remove this from my posts. 

 

2.  Me and Bosso don't disagree as often as I thought we did, but I think some tension sticks around because one of my strengths isn't giving credit where credit is due.  Shreds attitude/demeanor towards me isn't at all how I feel towards him and I'll take fault for this as well.  I've learned quite a bit from these two and I'll be sure to be more communicative of this in the future.

 

3.  My "basic amp testing" thread was prompted of a disagreement that me and Bosso had in Josh's "K20 vs. SP2-12000" thread.  Bosso and Shreds had questions that I couldn't answer, so when I finally did the research I learned a ton.  What I learned was so fun it sparked my amp testing thread.  Thank you, Bosso, for questioning my remarks when I didn't have the data to back it up.  I expect no less from you in the future.

 

Much respect for accepting some responsibility and taking corrective action.  I'm not saying this is all on you as I have no idea but your post has earned some of my respect.

 

Oh, and I'll be PMing you with questions related to your amp testing.  I've been following your thread and will have some questions so I can do my own basic testing.  Great thread and thanks for doing it.

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Well this got pretty heated, haha. And for once I wasn't the first guy diving head-first into the shallow end of the pool with fists flailing. 

 

I think/know the measurements that Josh and others have performed on the 24 are of merit. The HS-24 does not defy physics - it does not only require 100 watts to reach 30+mm Xmax in 17 ft^3, let alone IB. It takes a lot of power to reach Xmax, let alone Xmech in virtually any alignment. More diaphragm travel means more coil travel which means more coil cooling. Do I rate the HS-24 conseratively? Yes I do. I am the manufacturer and as a manufacturer you know, without a doubt, that if you rate a driver for 600 watts your customers are going to send it 1200 watts all day long and it needs to stand up to that amount of power. 

 

  Regarding anything that happened at the recent GTG, I am constantly learning what to do and what not to do to assemble my subwoofers the best way possible. The torture tests that go on at the GTG's are a perfect way for me to see how to fix any issues that come up during our drink-heavy late night "technical" tests, haha.  :P

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