Ricci's Skram Subwoofer & Files

[jay michael]

4 hours ago, h3idrun said:

JM living the dream ❤️

Cant wait to get mine back outside again, we are back to crazy restrictions in relation to entertainment events thanks to another covid outbreak, got 3 more parties booked this year but they keep getting pushed back until restrictions ease.

On the plus side i should finally have a chance to build my 4th soon and do some comparisons with the Dayton 18s I bought

Sorry to hear that. We were lucky enough to sneak a couple small outings like this during the summer…. But cases are getting bad here again so I wouldn’t be surprised if we get some restrictions again soon. Hope things get better for you soon 

[Ricci]

23 hours ago, jay michael said:

Sorry to hear that. We were lucky enough to sneak a couple small outings like this during the summer…. But cases are getting bad here again so I wouldn’t be surprised if we get some restrictions again soon. Hope things get better for you soon 

Yeah it's heading back toward lockdown quickly here. I've already had a tour (performing not doing sound) canceled and a few spot dates with other bands that are likely to be canceled. Tour was billed right when things opened back up and reversed direction almost immediately. I've got a lot of friends who work as stage hands, or sound engineers and it's been devastating for them. It's a tough time to be a performing artist, bar or sound provider. Hell any type of person who makes a living from public gatherings. 

[peniku8]

1 hour ago, Ricci said:

I've got a lot of friends who work as stage hands, or sound engineers and it's been devastating for them. It's a tough time to be a performing artist, bar or sound provider. Hell any type of person who makes a living from public gatherings. 

Yup, had everything cancelled for the last 15+ months, bar a single wedding.
First show in a long while was 2 weeks ago. Audience of 200 (seated) in a location for 2000... was an interesting show.
They had l.acoustics there with 10-12 Kiva line array elements per side. They were all running the same settings, which sounded to me like a distance compensation for ~30m (100ft) or longer, which meant the first few tables were being decapitated by extremely loud top-end... Guess we're all a bit rusty after such a long break or they just didn't care

[Ricci]

21 hours ago, peniku8 said:

First show in a long while was 2 weeks ago. Audience of 200 (seated) in a location for 2000... was an interesting show.

first few tables were being decapitated by extremely loud top-end... Guess we're all a bit rusty after such a long break or they just didn't care

Live streams just aren't the same. 

Possible that the extra 1500 to 1800 bodies in the room soak up that much HF? 

[jay michael]

On 8/12/2021 at 2:28 PM, Ricci said:

Yeah it's heading back toward lockdown quickly here. I've already had a tour (performing not doing sound) canceled and a few spot dates with other bands that are likely to be canceled. Tour was billed right when things opened back up and reversed direction almost immediately. I've got a lot of friends who work as stage hands, or sound engineers and it's been devastating for them. It's a tough time to be a performing artist, bar or sound provider. Hell any type of person who makes a living from public gatherings. 

Its really terrible. I have many friends in the industry, music, dance, movies etc that have been hit terribly hard by this. A little bit of work opened up during the summer but I suspect when the snow comes up here shits going to get dismal again. I'm starting in person classroom instruction at the College in a few weeks, can't say I'm looking forward to it. 

 

[peniku8]

On 8/13/2021 at 9:46 PM, Ricci said:

Live streams just aren't the same. 

Possible that the extra 1500 to 1800 bodies in the room soak up that much HF? 

Nah, that wouldn't impact the direct sound at a close range like that. It sounded like there was an 8khz high shelf on the bottom 2-3array elements which boosted that region by some 6db, in addition to being way too loud (it was an easy 10db louder there than everything past some 20ft from the stage. I didn't dare to go there again..!

[jay michael]

The tower of DOOM

[Ricci]

Jay how many of these do you have built now? 8?

[jay michael]

2 hours ago, Ricci said:

Jay how many of these do you have built now? 8?

This is the whole rig for now, I don’t think I’ll be adding anything more until we see what the future looks like…. Fucking covid. It’s perfectly balanced as is, I’d need more danley’s to keep up to more Skrams so the next leap would be expensive Haha.

first time running it in a block like this, we melted some faces off, bass for days holy shit

 https://youtu.be/Bp4opVAjbZ4

[SME]

I don't know how big your events are, but I imagine you are running with quite a bit of headroom there?  I mean, those Danleys get pretty loud, and you say they match well with the 6 Skrams in your usage?

I hope some day I get to meet you, to see/hear your setup, and maybe even get to try out my "alien technology" in your signal chain. 

[jay michael]

6 hours ago, SME said:

I don't know how big your events are, but I imagine you are running with quite a bit of headroom there?  I mean, those Danleys get pretty loud, and you say they match well with the 6 Skrams in your usage?

I hope some day I get to meet you, to see/hear your setup, and maybe even get to try out my "alien technology" in your signal chain. 

I was running about 20% down from where the start of the limiters would engage during the headliner slot, so yeah lots of headroom remaining. I feel like I’ve had some breakthroughs this summer with tuning, I can get things sounding real full and impactful without it ever feeling tiring or abrasive, it’s a real pleasure to listen to. Open invite dude, I’m a big fan of alien technology, let’s set up a play date

another clip recorded from the mezzanine upstairs, notice the bass warping the video recording…. Some serious pressure going down

https://youtu.be/_Y7Y0FqIJfw

[peniku8]

On 9/2/2021 at 5:26 PM, jay michael said:

I was running about 20% down from where the start of the limiters would engage during the headliner slot, so yeah lots of headroom remaining. I feel like I’ve had some breakthroughs this summer with tuning, I can get things sounding real full and impactful without it ever feeling tiring or abrasive, it’s a real pleasure to listen to. Open invite dude, I’m a big fan of alien technology, let’s set up a play date

another clip recorded from the mezzanine upstairs, notice the bass warping the video recording…. Some serious pressure going down

https://youtu.be/_Y7Y0FqIJfw

That looks dope! Were you running them off the CVRs?

[jay michael]

40 minutes ago, peniku8 said:

That looks dope! Were you running them off the CVRs?

Yeah man, just a pair of 3002’s on the 6 Skrams on 15 amp plugs, the venue has shit for power. Still zero complaints, they work hard, stay cool and sound great. Think the k10 is getting lonely staying at home all the time, I’ve actually put it up for sale 

[peniku8]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:39 AM, jay michael said:

Yeah man, just a pair of 3002’s on the 6 Skrams on 15 amp plugs, the venue has shit for power. Still zero complaints, they work hard, stay cool and sound great. Think the k10 is getting lonely staying at home all the time, I’ve actually put it up for sale 

You mentioned running limiters. Do the CVR amps have true power limiters? I'm looking for an affordable amp with a proper limiter and plenty of power. I own two Sanway amps (an FP13k and a D10Q, which is a dsp amp), but both have pretty useless peak limiters...

[jay michael]

Mine don’t, but they have a newer dsp model that might 

[h3idrun]

Looks like a hell of a party!

I still haven't got my 4th together yet but my next event is in just over a month so i've finally got a reason to do it. Been a terrible couple of years for the event industry and the future isn't looking bright for a while yet.

Got some new amps for the top end that will hopefully be here by then as well, a couple of Powersoft M50Q which means il actually be able to lift my amp rack in and out of the venue finally (dropping nearly 60kg off the total rack weight)

[Freek Audio]

Hey all,

Thanks for the great work and build shots of everyone here in this thread. Been great to read through.

We're looking to build 4 x of these to run with a pair of PM90's (and perhaps some Martin Audio 213 Mk3's after that). We have 4 x B&C 18SW115's that we were hoping to load the cabinets with. We had a couple questions:

1. Could anyone provide any commentary / sims on how the 18SW115 would run in this cabinet?
2. We'd like to cut an adaptor plate for the 18's - to keep the option open to install some 21's at some point in the future. Will the adaptor plate impact the sound of the cabinet in meaningful way?

[Waipy]

Will a RCF LF21X451 or a RCF LF21N451 work well in a Skram? I've just used two RCF on a Martin Audio 215 MK3 with great results so I'll be glad to give the brand another try. The proposed RCF LF21N551 is not produced anymore. Also I can get my hands on a cheap Beyma 21LEX1600ND.

What parameters should I be looking to know if a speaker will work properly on a Skram?

[richardwatts87]

Hi guys,

I've been considering this design as a one box solution to replace hog/es18 combo to create something with a little more power density. I will be running 2 and then eventually 4 with 21ds115 8 with orbit 4's as tops. 

I'm at the stage where I've got my cnc guy lined up to cut the flat pack, but I need to nest on to 8x4 sheets rather than 5x5. Just checking if  anyone has done this, saving me pestering another mate of mine to load them into autocad as I am not particularly CAD literate. 

Any help much appreciated 

Cheers 

Richard 

[M88@FL450]

@Ricci Have you had a chance to do a ‘system’ eval on a Skram yet? I’ve sold my OSPro cadre during covid first more than I paid new with a plan to reinvest that capital and embarking on the Skram as a replacement in more multiples. I am very interested to see the comparative data points on Skram, Long Term sweeps, Burst, and Distortion levels. Most valuable to me is the Long Term 2000w output level at 2m GP, the 2010 #s would be valuable and interesting as well. My guess is with a SW152 or a Eminence it should be pretty darn close. It seems the Eminence is the driver of choice seconded by the SW152. TY

[jay michael]

Have a bit of an interesting field use report for my Skrams. I recently added new processing to my system using an XTA DPA 100. It’s a pretty interesting 4 channel amp, which I am using to bi-amp my Danley sh46 cabs. It also featured 4 channels of output control to add processing to my slave sub amplifiers. I used the information within this XTA/MC2 document on limiters to set up protection on my sub amps. 
 

https://audiocore.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/XTA-Application-Note-DPA-Amps-Limiter-Settings.doc.pdf

using the chart within this document it says to set up the 21sw152 at 86.9 volts for limiting, minus 1db for safety margin. Having always been a little hesitant on knowing just how hard I can safely drive my Skrams I added a 2 wire thermocoupler temperature sensing system to 1 of the cabinets to monitor magnet temperature. 1 wire is mounted on the external circumference of the magnet, the other right next to the vent on the end of the magnet body. 
 

last night I provided sound for a local dubstep crew, 7 hours of continuous deep sine wave bass. Peak volume was held for about the 3 final hours of the night, at maximum I was running about 2db down from where limiting would engage.  Monitoring throughout the night, magnet temperature peaked at 44 degrees Celsius. This was also in a packed sweaty room that was raining condensation from the roof. 
 

pretty interesting to get some real Information about what the drivers are doing deep within the skram cabinets under real world conditions. I had previously come across a statement from Bennet Prescott who works with B&C saying that the 21sw152 can sustain 100 degrees magnet temperature without thermally damaging the coil. Previously I had been limiting these drivers to around 50 volts, it seems that in the Skram alignment we should be able to safely push them beyond that a bit without getting too much temperature build up. This of course may change for other types of music, I will continue to report back when I can speak to temps I’m seeing when doing other types of music shows. Data is beautiful. 
 

Always a pleasure getting to flex these cabinets, in a town where double 18’s rule,  the Skrams are raisins eyebrows and making lots of new fans. 

[m_ms]

16 hours ago, jay michael said:

...

Always a pleasure getting to flex these cabinets, in a town where double 18’s rule,  the Skrams are raisins eyebrows and making lots of new fans. 

Is a single Skram equatable to a box containing double, ported 18's? Moreover, is there a notable difference in bass presentation between the two? Please elaborate, if you care to.

/Mikael

[M88@FL450]

23 hours ago, jay michael said:

Have a bit of an interesting field use report for my Skrams. I recently added new processing to my system using an XTA DPA 100. It’s a pretty interesting 4 channel amp, which I am using to bi-amp my Danley sh46 cabs. It also featured 4 channels of output control to add processing to my slave sub amplifiers. I used the information within this XTA/MC2 document on limiters to set up protection on my sub amps. 
 

https://audiocore.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/XTA-Application-Note-DPA-Amps-Limiter-Settings.doc.pdf

using the chart within this document it says to set up the 21sw152 at 86.9 volts for limiting, minus 1db for safety margin. Having always been a little hesitant on knowing just how hard I can safely drive my Skrams I added a 2 wire thermocoupler temperature sensing system to 1 of the cabinets to monitor magnet temperature. 1 wire is mounted on the external circumference of the magnet, the other right next to the vent on the end of the magnet body. 
 

last night I provided sound for a local dubstep crew, 7 hours of continuous deep sine wave bass. Peak volume was held for about the 3 final hours of the night, at maximum I was running about 2db down from where limiting would engage.  Monitoring throughout the night, magnet temperature peaked at 44 degrees Celsius. This was also in a packed sweaty room that was raining condensation from the roof. 
 

pretty interesting to get some real Information about what the drivers are doing deep within the skram cabinets under real world conditions. I had previously come across a statement from Bennet Prescott who works with B&C saying that the 21sw152 can sustain 100 degrees magnet temperature without thermally damaging the coil. Previously I had been limiting these drivers to around 50 volts, it seems that in the Skram alignment we should be able to safely push them beyond that a bit without getting too much temperature build up. This of course may change for other types of music, I will continue to report back when I can speak to temps I’m seeing when doing other types of music shows. Data is beautiful. 
 

Always a pleasure getting to flex these cabinets, in a town where double 18’s rule,  the Skrams are raisins eyebrows and making lots of new fans. 

That’s great data man thank you! We’re you ever able to get a 2m GP Long Term test outdoors on these? 84v on a 4ohm 152 would be great! I think if I recall you got a 1m 1w sensitivity of 104 average some time ago. I’m doing some comparisons before I dive in the deep end of the Skram pool. 

 

That’s a great rig. Indoors at a bar like that it must be just off the charts! 

 

 

[jay michael]

2 hours ago, M88@FL450 said:

That’s great data man thank you! We’re you ever able to get a 2m GP Long Term test outdoors on these? 84v on a 4ohm 152 would be great! I think if I recall you got a 1m 1w sensitivity of 104 average some time ago. I’m doing some comparisons before I dive in the deep end of the Skram pool. 

 

That’s a great rig. Indoors at a bar like that it must be just off the charts! 

 

 

I haven't man, sorry.  Hopefully someday the Skram will get the full testing treatment, I would think the Skhorn results should be a pretty good representation of what to expect obviously with lower output. The Skram also has larger vents so overall we would expect 2 skrams to outperform a single skhorn. At the end of the day it comes down to cabinet size. The Skrams 36x34x24 dimensions makes it a real compact 21" cabinet, I doubt any diy plan packs as much punch and deep extension in those dimensions. I can move these around on my own but they are at the very edge of what I would call manageable if its just you. If you have a dedicated crew that will help you move them into storage at 5am then perhaps look into larger cabinets

[jay michael]

2 hours ago, M88@FL450 said:

That’s great data man thank you! We’re you ever able to get a 2m GP Long Term test outdoors on these? 84v on a 4ohm 152 would be great! I think if I recall you got a 1m 1w sensitivity of 104 average some time ago. I’m doing some comparisons before I dive in the deep end of the Skram pool. 

 

That’s a great rig. Indoors at a bar like that it must be just off the charts! 

 

 

This is a great room to play in, its been properly sound treated due to it being a live music venue. This system crushes in this space