Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

[Samps]

Awesome! Will this have higher pressure in the throat than the Othorn? Seems like that space between the drivers could smash stuff at full power.

[Hoodcom]

What gave it away? Hah.

 

Looks like Mr. dsl1 is going to have the very first one made. He's got some 21SW152's. Not sure what amps he has but even an Inuke 3k should make a lotta bass.

 

SKHORN 21SW152-4 2.83v.png

An educated guess maybe? 

 

21SW152's ought to do fantastically well. When I ended up discussing about moving the JBLs and cabinets out from under my center channel, Infrasonic ended up suggesting I just use a third Othorn in their place. I ended up suggesting the Skhorn would make a fine piece, but I don't think I have the width space.   I guess I could dream anyway. 

[Ricci]

Less pressure in the throat actually. 2 drIvers with 2x the throat area but the drivers are not pushed as hard individually. Plus the horn doesn't load down as far.

[dsl1]

Made some dust today.

 

 

Need to order a part for the CNC that broke, so I won't be doing any more cutting until it shows up. Probably next week.

 

I have the 4ohm SW152's. I don't think the clone amp likes 2ohm loads. Luke's answer would be to just buy a speakerpower amp...

[lukeamdman]

Made some dust today.

 

 

Need to order a part for the CNC that broke, so I won't be doing any more cutting until it shows up. Probably next week.

 

I have the 4ohm SW152's. I don't think the clone amp likes 2ohm loads. Luke's answer would be to just buy a speakerpower amp...

 

Wire them in a series and bridge the clone...or buy a speakerpower 

[Ricci]

I need a cnc...Jealous.

[lilmike]

I have a CNC and I'm jealous. 

 

Of course, mine is wee-tiny when compared to that monster.

 

Wow...

[Samps]

Just need some IKEA fasteners and you're set.

 

Do you need to put the whole inside together first, then inset it into the bottom? Looks like the horizontal panels and all of those channels would prevent you from assembling from the bottom up.

 

Looking forward to the results. Don't you also have an Othorn to compare to?

[chrapladm]

I must have forgot about this thread altogether. I think for a alternative driver that is very budget friendly the BC 18TBW100 is the best value. I like how the 18SW115 sims better for my simulations though. I have a pair of the SW115's on there way now for my TH50 clones. I still have my SW152 sitting in the shed waiting for whatever project to start.

 

Have you tested this sub yet? I am curious how it performs with the different tunings. I will have to compare how this does verse my pair of 18SW115 TH50 clones. I imagine it will do great for its BW and may come close to my TH50's on the lower registers. Maybe not will have to look.

 

Can I get the plans for this Ricci?

 

Should I just send an email to you? 

[dsl1]

Just need some IKEA fasteners and you're set.

 

Do you need to put the whole inside together first, then inset it into the bottom? Looks like the horizontal panels and all of those channels would prevent you from assembling from the bottom up.

 

Looking forward to the results. Don't you also have an Othorn to compare to?

 

Assembly should be pretty easy. I think I'll just go left to right dropping pieces into the dados on the bottom ->  pop the top on. Until it's screwed / glued together there is enough wiggle room it'll go together fine. The top on the Othorn with the dados was a bit more challenging with all the internal pieces that you couldn't reach. With this one between the hatches, the ports, and the throat it should be easy to get the top lined up.

 

My friend took the Othorn I built with him to California along with the one he built when I did my Gjallarhorns. I had it for a few months but no longer. We were planning to build four more Othorns but then this popped up. Probably end up with 3-4 of the SKhorns instead between us.

 

@Ricci - Samps noticed that the hornresp you posted for the SW152's dropped off quite a bit higher than your original post. Is that just the difference between the SW152 and the IPALs or is something else at play?

[Ricci]

Look closely at both sims. There are 2 responses. One with all vents open going to 30Hz and one with a vent blocked on each side which extends to 25Hz. Thats probably what is being seen. Like I said I expect the tuning to come in a hair lower on the real thing.

 

Chrapladm I like the new 18RBX100 B&C for the budget option. Send an email if you want.

[chrapladm]

I will have to have a look at the new RW100

[dsl1]

Look closely at both sims. There are 2 responses. One with all vents open going to 30Hz and one with a vent blocked on each side which extends to 25Hz. Thats probably what is being seen. Like I said I expect the tuning to come in a hair lower on the real thing.

 

Chrapladm I like the new 18RBX100 B&C for the budget option. Send an email if you want.

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

[chrapladm]

LOL, I see the model number was changed. I tried finding the RW and could not. The RBX model is about the same price for me as the TBW so either is a good option for me. I just have to wait a few more weeks to get my parts for my mains. Then I can start building. Then hopefully will get started on the Skhorn build next.

 

Will also have to see how much voltage I need to hit Xmax with this setup. Might have to look at buying a 14K clone until I can afford a SP12.

[Ricci]

With the lower priced 18's with lower xmax it's not going to take that much amp. Now with the 21's with 15mm or more xmax yes it is going to take some amplifier but still nothing crazy. It's not like you need a bridged clone or anything. 1 channel should be plenty

[chrapladm]

I figured I could buy a clone and use one channel per cabinet. So for my situation a clone could power the Skorn on one channel and power the pair of TH50 clones on the other channel. Although a 10Q would probably be better for power options I am sticking with whats been working for the masses. I trust a clone over an Inuke anyways. 

 

I think each clone TH needed about 700watts to hit Xmax. This is using a BC 18SW115. My Crest 7200 can power that for now but I definitely need to upgrade my amp for 21's. Without even looking I figured I would need about 3000 watts or more for the Skhorn and be just fine. Probably use my Motu Ultralite MK3 for Hpass. Just need to figure out how to route everything.

 

Sent you an email Ricci.

[lukeamdman]

SpeakerPower...

[chrapladm]

SpeakerPower...

That has always been my want. I looked at buying his single 4000 plate amp and that could power the pair of TH clones just fine. But I would still need another amp. An SP12 would be perfect I guess but I just dont have those kind of funds. We will see how I go with my clone subs first and then see how much I can afford for another amp.

[Ricci]

 

Sent you an email Ricci.

 

I didn't forget. I'll get it to you eventually.

[chrapladm]

No problem. I know most are busy around this time so when you can get to me that would be great.

[deepthoughts]

What frustrates me is the physics of reproducing < 20 Hz bass from very small cabinets.  As interested as I am in under 10 Hz content, I am seeing anecdotal evidence suggesting that those frequencies are better left to Crowsons.  So why not build ported/horn/hybrid cabinets for my 4 UH-21s?  Because, they'd have to be huge to tune low enough (say 12-13 Hz) and provide a worthwhile output advantage over the sealed.  For the space I have to work with and my desire for strong 10-20 Hz output, sealed wins period.  And oddly enough, super motored drivers like the IPAL 21, UH-21 and RF TS-19 that are well suited to a Skhorn or other high output alignments also appear to be ideal for low frequency performance in very small sealed boxes like I'm building.

 

It's just that building sealed subs doesn't feel all that adventurous.  I reckon some day when I have the space or I decide I want something I can haul to large spaces or outdoors, I'll have to put these UH-21s in cabinets that allow them to show their real stuff.

 

 

 That's where I'm at. I guess it's boredom or being burnt out or whatever but building a sealed or even big vented system doesn't excite me like it used to, even if they make a whole lot of sense in most cases. That's why I mostly work on weird cabs for huge spaces anymore. It's more fun for me (and frustrating).

 

One way to up the challenge a bit is to dive deeper into these huge cabinet designs that are fun to model and every once in a while build.  One great property about acoustics is the ability to scale things.  Maybe burn some late nights working out what a sliced fraction of such a design would look like, what parameters are needed for a 15", 12", or even 10" driver to maintain the same response?  Might any of those parameters be something you can find?  The suitable smaller drivers might not have the same excursion, but things might get interesting if you can actually use multiple units.

 

No matter the type of alignment I'd say that being able to scale most all the performance qualities to be an interesting challenge.  Ricci mentioned the Bose boxes earlier, and ironically the 6th order bandpass was a now expired Bose patent.  Sometimes looking at designs in a different scale or with different technologies we stumble on some fun possibilities.  If you can make a $1 driver sound impressive in something the size of a briefcase, what can you do if that's the size of a refrigerator with high excursion parts?  Similarly, maybe when scaled down there are parts from a different market or application that you wouldn't have bothered modeling, but in fact the math suggests it scales nicely in some interesting design. 

 

Personally I still would love to have the time to create my concept of a subwoofer system using 3 or more bandpass designs intended to blend together into a multi-way subwoofer with the ability to place each bandwidth in efficient locations.  The upper 1/2 of the bandwidth really gets interesting when you look at small modules and bandpass designs with significant gain.  Of course getting better results than just a pile of compact sealed subs always comes back to the execution.

 

Excuse the diversion, back to big obscene subs. 

[Ricci]

One way to up the challenge a bit is to dive deeper into these huge cabinet designs that are fun to model and every once in a while build.  One great property about acoustics is the ability to scale things.  Maybe burn some late nights working out what a sliced fraction of such a design would look like, what parameters are needed for a 15", 12", or even 10" driver to maintain the same response?  Might any of those parameters be something you can find?  The suitable smaller drivers might not have the same excursion, but things might get interesting if you can actually use multiple units.

 

No matter the type of alignment I'd say that being able to scale most all the performance qualities to be an interesting challenge.  Ricci mentioned the Bose boxes earlier, and ironically the 6th order bandpass was a now expired Bose patent.  Sometimes looking at designs in a different scale or with different technologies we stumble on some fun possibilities.  If you can make a $1 driver sound impressive in something the size of a briefcase, what can you do if that's the size of a refrigerator with high excursion parts?  Similarly, maybe when scaled down there are parts from a different market or application that you wouldn't have bothered modeling, but in fact the math suggests it scales nicely in some interesting design. 

 

Personally I still would love to have the time to create my concept of a subwoofer system using 3 or more bandpass designs intended to blend together into a multi-way subwoofer with the ability to place each bandwidth in efficient locations.  The upper 1/2 of the bandwidth really gets interesting when you look at small modules and bandpass designs with significant gain.  Of course getting better results than just a pile of compact sealed subs always comes back to the execution.

 

Excuse the diversion, back to big obscene subs. 

 

Good points. What if you were building a 16cu ft cab for a single $500 18". How do 2 15's a few 12's or even a bunch of 10's or 8's compare in the same space? Things like that.

 

It's often easier to find the smaller drivers with specs that are closer to what is needed. They usually have a smaller voice coil so inductance can be lower and the smaller SD makes it easier to find drivers with a moderate to low Qts. Cheaper to replace if one blows and multiple smaller coils to share power often ups the long term thermal handling substantially. Way back when I was working on improving the GH I had a mocked up version using 6 Alpine 10's. Looked good really. Sad thing was the 6 SWR-10D2's were slightly cheaper than the single 18" LMS driver. Little bit heavy with 6 of them though and I found the issue with running drivers in series along the path length of a tapped horn.

 

 

People talk all kinds of crap about Bose but they have some of the best engineering talent around. it's just that their team is often given the task of making the most out of the absolute cheapest drivers that can be bought in order to maximize profits. They do a good job with it. I almost feel sorry for them not ever getting to use their skills on the transducers themselves. If they actually had a chance to use a $100 (At Bose cost) bass driver instead of ones that literally are probably <$5, they could probably do some impressive things.

[dsl1]

 

 

Back in action + a bit of progress.

[chrapladm]

How much do you recess the panels? 3/4"?

 

Just curious. Love the ease of the build with panels slotting in. Well at least thats my thinking.

[MemX]

I am jealous of your tools and woodwork skills!