nube Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Mad Max: Fury Road (7.1 TrueHD) Level - 5 Stars (113.91dB composite) Extension - 4 Stars (11Hz) Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.28dB) Execution - 5 Stars Overall - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Buy Notes: Delivering everything pretty over the top, it's only fitting that Mad Max: Fury Road has lots of bass. It does not have much below 20Hz, aside from 2 scenes, and those only have a little bit of content down low. As you can see from the PvA, it drops like a rock below 28Hz. It's also not very dynamic, because of the sheer quantity of bass. I didn't think the mix was exceptional, but it does have a lot of bass. That said, you wouldn't recognize most of the sound team from a list of the heavy hitters, but many of them have been quite recognized by the Academy, so you know it's going to at least be good. The mix is clean, even though it's loud. I could only find very limited instances of flat tops in the waveforms, and no outright clipping. I never heard anything bad when watching, but the dialog could have been a lot cleaner, what with all the heavy British Aussie English (thanks AJ72) being butchered by mush-mouths on the screen. Clearly some of that was intentional, but that was my only real complaint with the movie or mix. Otherwise, it's probably the most action I've ever seen packed into what I would call a pretty good movie. It's not a great movie, but it really is good, and it is most definitely a good HT ride, even without a ton of the deep bass we crave. PvA: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDuke Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Looking forward to checking this one out. It may not have the dynamics, but overall I think I will enjoy it. Again, because of my Crowson, I think the lack of dynamics won't bother me as me with my Crowson going down to 10hz, P.S Thanks again for all of the movies everyone does here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I loved it and thought it sounded great. Watching again tonight in 3D with a buddy. It's definitely loud, but not like AoE or Godzilla with tons of clipping. I do agree about the voices, that being said, there isn't a whole lot of dialogue. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Sub jack out with re-directed bass starting at 100Hz. Looks like there's some low nuggets in here. Waveform doesn't look too bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Big 5 and buy for me! Simply outrageous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Played at ref level with the subs bumped just a bit. Mic on the floor (dip in response at 70 Hz, etc) and was probably moved once or twice. Stopped SL and capped when I thought the low end was great and ended up stopping and capping 10 times. No time stamps, just numbered 1-10... AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Thank you @nube for a great review, and with the comments from others to fill in I am tempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 It was great in 3D also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 ^^^Then that's a buy in 3D for me. Great bass and 3D. As long as it's not TMNT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdffgdfgd Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Probably my favorite movie this year so far and that goes for the sound mix as well. Yes it was loud but it still sounded clear without obvious clipping or limiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aj72 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Have to agree with the comments here but Nube It's classic Aussie English (well aside from a few interlopers amongst the cast). Edit: All good Nube appreciate the work you guys put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nube Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Thanks for the correction, AJ72. Aussie English it is. Mush mouth extravaganza. So the ultra low content is rolled off for almost the whole movie. If someone was really careful, this one might be a total monster with a BEQ solution employed. The only pitfall I see are those two unfiltered moments where there's very large 10-12Hz content. While the overall mix would benefit by having the rolloff / filter removed from the low end, any boost to those two ULF sequences would likely push a lot of folks into the danger zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 BEQ is possible, and I recommend that no one even try to playback a BEQ film back at equivalent reference level unless they can playback 7.1 WCS tonebursts without fear. With BEQ, we would have significant 10Hz content, possibly even more than the 15Hz content in Scott Pilgrim BEQ. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 ^^^Then that's a buy in 3D for me. Great bass and 3D. As long as it's not TMNT... The 3D is more depth; awesome, awesome depth. Not really much flying out at you....FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Thanks for the correction, AJ72. Aussie English it is. Mush mouth extravaganza. So the ultra low content is rolled off for almost the whole movie. If someone was really careful, this one might be a total monster with a BEQ solution employed. The only pitfall I see are those two unfiltered moments where there's very large 10-12Hz content. While the overall mix would benefit by having the rolloff / filter removed from the low end, any boost to those two ULF sequences would likely push a lot of folks into the danger zone. If you want to correct the whole movie with same filtering, this will usually lead to some compromises. For some movies I employed different filtering for some scenes or parts. The 2 last alien films (Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection) and Gravity Atmos/TrueHD release are examples where a much better reslult is achieved by using an adaptive bass-eq approach. From the pva for Mad Max Fury, I would start with some lift below 20hz and actually reduce the level around 30-40hz. But it is not that simple, you have to listen to it, and pay attention to impact on transients - the filtering will cause phase shift, and this can cause transients to loose some of their impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have not encountered serious phase-shift problems with BEQ, even with some of the most transient phenomena (fireworks recordings). JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have not encountered serious phase-shift problems with BEQ, even with some of the most transient phenomena (fireworks recordings). JSS Indeed. And in fact, where your BEQ is "correcting for" an HPF filter put in place by the mixers, there's a chance you'll get even better phase coherence with BEQ than without. Most of these filters are probably minimum phase, anyway, and I doubt the mixers did anything to try to correct the phase shift their filter introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 But it is not that simple, you have to listen to it, and pay attention to impact on transients - the filtering will cause phase shift, and this can cause transients to loose some of their impact. Better to boost and hear something rather than get nothing though right? Do you really think that you could notice a phase shift like that in the transients? I've heard that it makes a difference but I still haven't noticed it in listening to a system. Wouldn't the delay be within the bandwidth of the sub system reproducing it? I could see pointing out a few milliseconds difference in the mains in comparison with the sub at the crossover point but within the same speaker, I think you might be able to discern a difference in response sound but not too much in attack. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 When I BEQ'ed the Danley Fireworks recordings, the impulse waveforms didn't 'spread out' at all. They really just picked up heft after the initial sharp impulse. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Indeed. And in fact, where your BEQ is "correcting for" an HPF filter put in place by the mixers, there's a chance you'll get even better phase coherence with BEQ than without. Most of these filters are probably minimum phase, anyway, and I doubt the mixers did anything to try to correct the phase shift their filter introduced. So it is. I suspect that is actually the reason we see shelf filtering more often than simple cut-off hp filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Better to boost and hear something rather than get nothing though right? Do you really think that you could notice a phase shift like that in the transients? I've heard that it makes a difference but I still haven't noticed it in listening to a system. Wouldn't the delay be within the bandwidth of the sub system reproducing it? I could see pointing out a few milliseconds difference in the mains in comparison with the sub at the crossover point but within the same speaker, I think you might be able to discern a difference in response sound but not too much in attack. Does that make sense? I have done experiments to investigate this, and I presented a brief summary here: http://kvalsvoll.blogspot.no/2014/03/audibility-of-phase-distortion.html It is interesting to notice how a seemingly very obvious difference in how the signal waveform looks can sound remarkably similar. But when you turn it up on a capable system with decent impulse response, the difference is also obvious.. But perception will also be affected by changes in tonal balance in the bass range. If the very low bass is increased and the bass around 80-100hz is reduced, it will sound less transient regardless of phase shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 When I BEQ'ed the Danley Fireworks recordings, the impulse waveforms didn't 'spread out' at all. They really just picked up heft after the initial sharp impulse. JSS Which indicates that one should not be too concerned about distorting waveform when doing bass-eq. I think most of the cases where impact and attack on transients are reduced is caused by a reduction in level in the upper bass range. If you look at the different bass-eq filter sets, measures are taken to prevent too much reduction in level due to the overshoot of the filters. One solution I have used in later fixes is to add another high-shelf that rises the level of upper bass, only 1dB or so is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Indeed. Loss of transient detail is a major reason I'm opposed to increasing the sub level alone to get more bass. Doing so effectively creates a shelf centered at 80 Hz (or whatever crossover is used) that get steeper the more you turn up the sub level. Not only does the relative lack of upper bass (> 80 Hz) cause substantial loss of tightness, but as the shelf gets steep, the group delay gets out of control right at the frequency that's crucial for the tactile punch of much kick-drum, explosions, and so on. Boosting bass with a more gradual ramp starting at around 200 Hz or so sounds much nicer because it maintains a better balance and does little harm to transients. Note also that much of the perceived loudness of mid bass sounds mid bass comes actually from harmonics in the 100s. Some would argue that this is a beneficial side-effect of using a higher distortion subwoofer, but while such subs may tend to same louder at the same SPL, I don't agree this is desirable because the distortion harmonics are not necessarily in phase with the natural harmonics and may actually cause interference and worse sound. All this gets into the relevance of inductance, and my recent suspicion that the lack of "chest punch" reported by many with high caliber sub systems may, in addition to room problems and/or phase mismatch between sub and mains, may also be due to non-linear inductance effects causing compression and/or distortion of higher harmonic content, particularly when stronger lower bass fundamentals are present that are inducing greater excursion. These inductance problems may not be at all apparent with sine-sweep tests like Ricci uses, although a strong rise above resonance in the impedance curve is a good sign of potential trouble here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Easiest 5 star bass rating I have made in years! Loved this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 So I search the net to find a place to buy this, all local stores are closed down so on-line is the only way in norway now. Well, it turns out it is "not available in your country." So they missed this sale. Because when, or if, this becomes available for me to buy, this movie has lost focus and I have forgotten all about it. If I really, really want it, I can have it in a couple of hours, for free. If I am comfortable with stealing. After they finally managed to block all the torrent sites, I went in to check if they are actually closed. Yes, the are closed, and redirect to the most complete listing of torrent sites I have ever seen. Stealing is easy, it is for free, the risk is zero if you use a vpn, so if you can't see that there is no real difference between going in to a store and steal a bluray from the shelf compared to downloading, then the solution is easy. The content providers in the movie business really have to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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