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The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)


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Simpsons and Incredibles added to queue. Should have a subjective rating on Total Recall tomorrow night, and some measurements this weekend. We have already graphed over 50 films.


BTW - The Hobbit is pretty good. TREMENDOUS ULF POTENTIAL, esp in several distinct scenes, which I will not give away. The IMAX 15/70 presentation had dust on the plate/lens that is just in front of the film, but otherwise was a good visual presentation and MUCH IMPROVED sound over the local LieMAX. No ear fatigue, no ringing ears after leaving the theater, loud when it needed to be, but only 30-35Hz extension. The 15/70 IMAX screen is about 4x the size of the LieMAX screen.


The only thing missing was that the presentation was at 24fps, and some of the pans are so fast that it strobes horribly at 24fps, I bet at 48fps that is not the case, so I will check it out at an HFR capable theater.



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For those who missed it because the page turned, Total Recall is UP on the previous page...


I noticed the same thing with TAS as I've experienced with Thor (and now I suspect several others that I just didn't notice because too much time went between viewings).


The BR is much hotter than the rented DVD,


When I played the final scene, my amp momentarily clipped. I rechecked FR and levels and that wasn't it. The ST is just way hotter.


Here's the 2 scenes, the one I originally did off the DVD and the BR version:







I'll switch them in the Doc, but I usually rent before buying and the good ones get run off the rental disc for expediency. I wonder what the deal is here, are they goosing the ST level for BR discs of blockbusters so that "louder is perceived as better" helps to make people think it's worth it to go BR?


I also decided the subway scene has pretty awesome low end, so I'll be adding that to the Doc as well.


BTW, I can only update the TAS I originally posted (already done), not the one linked to.

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Do we need to run Audacity captures on individual channels to see where the clipping is?


I'm thinking of giving Total Recall 4 star execution (4.5 overall), and a RENT recommendation. Anyone disagree?




Sounds right to me if you're basing it on the story, Audio/Visual it's a blind buy.

I'm going to add it to my collection because audio/visual is darn good. The story was just ok for me but it's worth another watch imho.

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I've expressed this previously in the thread at AVS, however I feel it's worthy of another reminder.


A word about "The Pacific", Iwo Jima scene, etc.. ; I realize the entire point of this endeavor is determining the actual low frequency energy contained in various soundtracks etc., thus the empirical over the subjective. I must say that my wife and I found The Pacific to be a phenomenal film, in every possible way one could imagine. So much so, that I wouldn't want someone to just see a certain scene for it's LF characteristics. This film is so damn powerful in it's full context, yeah that's a big commitment time wise, but I highly recommend it. To merely see one episode, or one scene, man you're really doing yourself a dis-service. I just think the full weight and impact that's brought upon by hours of character development, would be lessened if experienced in a abbreviated version.


It pulls you in, whether you're tearful, or cringing at the horror of conflict, or even feeling proudly patriot, it is impactful like few films I've ever experienced. Plus, it possesses a kick-ass soundtrack!


I know FilmMixer had his hands in on this one, and I really dug it.




Me Soapbox

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Dave,what was the source of your graphs? dvd?


Yes, the DVD is what I normally use for action flicks with good low end because I rent before buying and want to get the draphs up ASAP for others to see them.


Now, I'm thinking I should just graph the BR versions.


I bought the package set for TAS that has both BR and DVD. I just graphed the last scene using both and there's 8-10dB difference at-a-glance.


Everything was kept exactly identical; mic position, interface setting, AVR calibration, curve selection and amp setting. The system is calibrated flat and MVL at '0'. The DVD is DD and Dialnorm is -1. The BR is DTS HD-Master Audio.





I'm going to nick both digitally, level match them and have a listen full range. Personally, I'm a conspiracy nut, so I see this as a scheme to get people to see the better picture, better sound push toward BR (as if the ads that say as much on every DVD isn't enough). They come together in a package, but I suspect DVD will be phased out and this is one part of the marketing for the transition.


Either way, there is no doubt that I'm seeing a trend here of the DVD having a good bit less overall level, and it's bugging me big time. I have no doubt this is part of the "WOW, that movie has BASS!" from one person (who watched the BR version) and "Meh, it was a little weak, IMO." from the next person. It probably ramped up the subjective vs graphs debate that led us all here.

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Dave, just curious as to why you don't rent BD's? Not sure where in the country you are, but if you have a Family Video near you, that would be ideal. Their rental BD's are the retail versions, so unlike Netflix or BlockBuster with the neutered non-lossless tracks on rentals, the FV rentals have the lossless tracks plus all the extras.




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Dave & Max have you tried the french gruesome horror movie "Inside" the french dts-hd track has some insane low bas ~4Hz & high peak, makes my krell fpb-700cx clip ( due to it thinks its dc) i think it deserves a go,if hard to find i could ship you guys an ex as a gift for your excellent job : )


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The Pacific:Iwo Jima


Level - 5 Stars (268.8dBHz)

Extension - 2 Stars (23.4Hz)

Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.3dB)

Execution - 5 Stars - For this film, we run into the limitations of a PvA graph. Many of the explosions on this track have content down to 5Hz, but since they are broadband transient effects, they will not show up on a PvA graph as incredibly significant, just as in the Transformers 1&2, that also have similar effects for some of the explosions. The bass in this film is done very well, and I think it merits 5 Stars.


Overall - 4 Stars


Recommendation - BUY. Although it doesn't have the same continuity as Band of Brothers (it can't, as the Pacific theater was very discontinuous), it is a tremendous work, as was Band of Brothers.




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Is that the 2007 film with Allyson Paradis? If so, Netflix has it. DVD only, though.


Will post up Iwo Jima in a bit, and get started on Fight Club.





Yes it is it,dont know what sound you get from netflix though,it it the french audio dts hd track that is the nice one.

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I'll put it in the queue. We'll see....


Here's Master & Commander DVD:


Level - 3 Stars (262.78dBHz)

Extension - 4 Stars (13Hz)

Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.2dB)

Execution - 4 Stars - while very good, this track is not in true 5-Star territory, IMO.


Overall - A solid 4.0 Star track.


Recommendation - Rent. Although an 18dB/octave Butterworth highpass is on the BD, the imagery is great in HD. It would be great to Mux the DTS audio from the DVD onto the BD 1080p imagery.


Comparison graph attached. Exactly 3dB down at 30Hz, and 18dB down at 15Hz. What a shame.





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I've been measuring voltage out of the AVR SW out and my SEQSS to check for clipping and properly match the signal chain to the amplifier settings for a worst case scenario and decided to measure various titles BR vs DVD output.


We measured HTTYD, Thor, TAS & Total Recall. All measurements were done using the BR and DVD that came with the retail package. Voltage out of the AVR was higher (nearly double) for all 4 titles.


I'll have to re-graph the TR BR version and update the doc because it's WAY hotter than the DVD I graphed. At least in the case of TAS, DialNorm wasn't a factor because it's -1 and shouldn't reflect the double the output reading.


We're recording a scene from TR and will level match the scene from the BR to the DVD (and/or vice-versa) and play them back through my interface through good headphones. This may reveal compression or any other major differences... we'll see.

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