SME Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 What do you mean by that exactly? The difference between the transient leading edge of a signal vs steady state or something else? Well, what actually happens depends a lot on the room response. To understand this, think about what happens if you play a bass sine wave through the front left speaker and then play the same sine wave except inverted through the front right speaker. Assume the speakers are equidistant to the listener. In an anechoic room, there is no reflected sound at all, so the steady state response will simply be the sum of the two sources. They will cancel completely, and the result will be the same as if the waves cancelled during bass management or mix-down instead, except the woofers and amps won't work as hard. Real rooms are not at all anechoic, especially in the bass. If the room and speaker placements are totally symmetric with respect to the listener, then the reflections will also cancel at the listener. But any asymmetry (including different wall construction on each side) will impact the time of arrival and/or level of the reflections from each speaker differently resulting in lingering reflected sound. Another consideration is that any perception (such as tactile vibration) that depends on sound at locations other than the listening position will be experienced even in a perfectly symmetric setup. Now, mixers who are aware of the problem will probably avoid mixing bass out-of-phase between channels because of the unpredictable results, but in reality, I bet this still happens enough to have audible consequences under different listening conditions. Stereo recordings with mics spaced some distance from one another are likely to have plenty of out-of-phase bass. How does one ensure that that bass is reproduced "accurately" on a two channel system? With bass-management, that bass will be thrown away. What's even weirder is if you use Dolby ProLogic or PL2X or some such which extracts signal that is out-of-phase between the two channels and send it (in-phase) to the surrounds. So, up-mixing can actually increase the bass level during playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXWiNXx Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Can someone please graph 'The Finest Hours",, I think It has some very nice lows. Specially the storm scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 GODS OF EGYPT lots of bass, but... PHIL-TURD At least an 8th order HPF @ 20 Hz throughout. Here's a snip of Chapter 15, which is indistinguishable from the bass in the entire movie (white means there is NOTHING there): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnjd Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 That looks like a graph from a 90's movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynist Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 GOE was graphed here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1333462-new-master-list-bass-movies-frequency-charts-826.html#post44177354 They are saying a brick wall at 10hz. Wonder what the difference is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnjd Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 There might be more than one filter in effect. There's a noticeable dropoff below 30Hz but then it looks like it hits a shelved high pass at 10Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 GODS OF EGYPT lots of bass, but... PHIL-TURD At least an 8th order HPF @ 20 Hz throughout. Here's a snip of Chapter 15, which is indistinguishable from the bass in the entire movie (white means there is NOTHING there): I found the level to be low and the brick wall is an octave higher. Not sure what method Fat is using to graph the soundtrack, but my sig chain is dead flat and I'm positive I'm not missing content to 10 Hz... ...as in Point Break: My copy of GOE was a rental. Might be the diff? Dunno, but I'm sure of the content I graphed with the disc I had here. It would have been MUCH nicer with content to 10 Hz, for sure. It was lame as I viewed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinemaniac72 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 GOE is Lionsgate so isn't the audio track lossy for the rental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Can someone please graph 'The Finest Hours",, I think It has some very nice lows. Specially the storm scene. *Massive edit* I screen cap'd "In The Heart Of The Sea", not "The Finest Hours". Sorry guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 ...as in Point Break: Point Break with Keanu Reeves?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Point Break with Keanu Reeves?? Nope, it's new new one. Lots of nice low end scenes. Big waves, avalanche, etc. stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Oooh, I wasn't aware a new one was coming out! Will keep an eye out for it (On a side note, does Hollywood not have any new stories? lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoney Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 It's pretty bad though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Can it be worse than the first one? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Dave, was that a rental? I remember you doing another movie (one of the Divergent movies?) and you had way less bass but someone with the actual copy of the movie had a different mix with a lot more ULF. Maybe the same thing happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Dave, was that a rental? I remember you doing another movie (one of the Divergent movies?) and you had way less bass but someone with the actual copy of the movie had a different mix with a lot more ULF. Maybe the same thing happening? Yes, a rental. That and the possible use by Fat of an errant correction file are the only 2 possibilities, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Oh definitely. Just wondering where you had sourced your copy from. While the movie was terrible to most, I enjoyed it for some odd reason. I'll check out the retail copy when I get a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoney Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Oh definitely. Just wondering where you had sourced your copy from. While the movie was terrible to most, I enjoyed it for some odd reason. I'll check out the retail copy when I get a chance. I liked it to fwiw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Me too, I am easy to please I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Lionsgate generally puts more compressed video and lossy audio to fit on a single layer BD. The mixes are often different, IME. JSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I couldn't get on this site the last couple of days so, after screening Deadpool, I posted the caps in Adam's Raptor thread @ avs: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1664809-bossobass-raptor-system-3-a-9.html I just did a comparo animation of the mac daddy scene, mic'd full range @ the LP vs digits off the Oppo BD105 SW out with LPF @ 100 Hz. I was running the subs 3dB or so hot. I dug the movie and will be adding it to our collection tomorrow. The sound is just about perfect. Just enough ULF to add that bit of weight but not so much that it adds too much decay to the kick of the transients. And, the transients are what make this one demo-worthy. There's a billion or so of the best low end transients in memory. Just my opinion and a heads up. ^^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatshaft Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Yes, a rental. That and the possible use by Fat of an errant correction file are the only 2 possibilities, IMO. I (fat) only use the audio that's on the BR Disc ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I (fat) only use the audio that's on the BR Disc Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't know what that means. Can you explain the process? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatshaft Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't know what that means. Can you explain the process? Not sure if sarcastic or not ???? Sorry I should've explained myself better I use jriver to downmix the 5.1 - 7.1 channels to a mono audio file per desertdome's instruction and then run the mono file through speclab. I will only analyze the DTS-HD MA or the TRUEHD audio files I never analyze lower quality audio files Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 While my signal chain is no where near as flat as Bosso's I will confirm that DeadPool is going to be at the top of my list for demo disks. Low level Spec Lab measurements: Going In: Motorcycle near the beginning: No one needs you more than I scene: Prom sex comment scene: Super hero landing: Funny movie with lots of one-liner's. Very fun movie all around with lots of low-end. Highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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