maxmercy Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Transformers: Age of Extinction (Dolby TrueHD 7.1, no ATMOS content included) Level - 5 Stars (114.59dB composite) Extension - 3 Stars (just over 15Hz) Dynamics - 3 Stars (23.15dB) Execution - Hotly contested, 5 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes - It not only appears to be the loudest film of all time, given its nearly 3 hour run time with those numbers, but it definitely sounds and feels that way, see my post on page 2. It is brick-wall limited at around -0.5dBFS. In other words, it clips terribly, and often. As usual, the center channel is the worst offender, followed closely by L, R and LFE. Surrounds much less so. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well there's still hope with the new Xmen and Edge of Tomorrow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wondering if the clipping is as noticeable as Godzilla? I am usually not sensitive to clipping, but noticed it quite a few times watching Godzilla. Thanks for the report Maxmercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nube Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for diving on this grenade, JSS! Funny that the paid reviewers giving it perfect scores don't seem to care about that clipping, seeing as it's loud! Loud!! LOUD!!! So many people saying this is the best mix of the year. Incredible. Think the BassEQ process can fix this steaming pile of...? I didn't like the 3rd one, but I may give the disc a whirl this weekend if I'm not on a mountain, head in the clouds, trying to decompress from corporate high security world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wondering if the clipping is as noticeable as Godzilla? I am usually not sensitive to clipping, but noticed it quite a few times watching Godzilla. Thanks for the report Maxmercy. Just finished it and I would say no. It clips, but it is nothing like Godzilla. As far as the movie, it was ok. Better than Dark of the Moon, but not up to TF1. It's a pretty good mix, and I do realize it should go lower than 15hz. Overall it's an enjoyable movie, fun, doesn't take itself seriously. Really like Hound, but how can you not like John Goodman. I voted 5 on execution and buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Working on seeing if BassEQ will help....it definitely did for Godzilla. More later. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefdvr27 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wow, 165 minutes. I have been debating buying this one and I think I am going to hold off awhile. Just way to long for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for diving on this grenade, JSS! Funny that the paid reviewers giving it perfect scores don't seem to care about that clipping, seeing as it's loud! Loud!! LOUD!!! So many people saying this is the best mix of the year. Incredible. Think the BassEQ process can fix this steaming pile of...? I didn't like the 3rd one, but I may give the disc a whirl this weekend if I'm not on a mountain, head in the clouds, trying to decompress from corporate high security world. The poorer the fidelity of the audio reproduction system, the "better" clipping sounds, as the sharp corners become rounded off, making a 'fuzz' sound turn into a 'tube' sound, if you are guitar/bass effect savvy. It's the reason Paul Carmody designed the Classix and Classix II speakers with higher distortion drivers. They make poorly recorded audio sound better, as they do not faithfully reproduce the badly produced signal. The reason TF4 sounds better than Godzilla is that a lot of effects are full bandwidth on the track, but at slightly lower levels. The surrounds in particular contain some ULF within them, with <10Hz content, and very little rolloff until about 7Hz. The highest level effects are above 30Hz, and do not contain much below. But many of the lower level effects contain significant <20Hz content, making up for it. Every single TF film has had some ULF, just not encoded very hot. TF1 had the most ULF of all of them, with full bandwidth LCRS, and only a rolloff in the LFE. TF1 still has the lowest purposely encoded single Infra-Infrasonic hit (<3Hz) I have ever analyzed. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 At lunch I entertained my 3 year old with HTTYD and I just watched half of TF4 at reference and HTTYD at -15 dBs sounds much better and more Dynamic than TF4. I thought it was loud and I am glad it was confirmed. I heard clipping as well and I was not looking for it. I don't mind some clipping if the rest of it is really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 There was clipping in this one but not Godzilla bad. Make no mistake, this movie is loud! ( you may want to think Star trek into Darkness loud but with bass to match) but I still managed reference volume for a good percent of the movie and to good effect. I voted 5 due to the full bandwidth, bass level and its proportion to extension and with a bit more careful tuning it may be a golden ratio as it really was very impressive. I'm getting curious on the LFE in the surrounds as it may be Atmos related and i will dig a bit on this one to see if home mixes (5.1/7.1) will indeed benefit because of the addition Atmos embedded into the True HD track itself and are the decoders only ignoring the height cues and or more .Anyway great mix and worth collection status for me as I loved the very unique mixing used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Oh I like the bass better than Godzilla. I have to put back in Cloverfield to compare the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowmaNick Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Overly long, loud, and devoid of plot. Some will like it but I will never watch it again. Kinda want the 3 hours back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvalsvoll Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for diving on this grenade, JSS! Funny that the paid reviewers giving it perfect scores don't seem to care about that clipping, seeing as it's loud! Loud!! LOUD!!! So many people saying this is the best mix of the year. Incredible. Think the BassEQ process can fix this steaming pile of...? I didn't like the 3rd one, but I may give the disc a whirl this weekend if I'm not on a mountain, head in the clouds, trying to decompress from corporate high security world. This is just sad. Sound quality going down the drain, and all the reviewers applauding. Reviews have absolutely no value, as they seem like a randomly computer-generated mess of nice words describing a sound that does not match reality. There are large differences in soundtracks, some may be considered artistic, some are very good, and unfortunately more and more has the flat and compressed loud sound style. A review should reflect those very apparent differences and sonic characters of the sound tracks, but they basically tell you all movies sound the same. I have observed the current LOUD trend emerge, as more and more soundtracks sound compressed and distorted, and the bass filtering is just another remedy to further destroy what could have been so very, very good. There is an AES report from a study of the loudness war, which more or less explains why this happens. While music is now improving, expect movies to suffer further until some day in the future things will eventually improve. If people still buy movies, that is. During the music loudness-war destruction period sales declined to fractions of what it was, and if sound quality was a significant cause then it certainly does not look good for the movie business. One thing we can all do is to show support by buying all the good ones, recommend them, and keep telling others about sound and sound quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some how I get the feeling this will be the most loved or hated movie of the year! I will admit that as with all source material be it music or movie soundtracks the range of excellent to bad has always had a large gap and can be disappointing especially when its something you look forward to. back in the old day I use to go about setup and selecting gear for playback of a larger variety of content and of all the mistakes in the search for a "higher fidelity " this was my biggest regret and waste of time. Like friends i can count my reference recordings of music and film on one hand ( well maybe two ) The are more out there for sure but its' the good with the bad for now and keep in mind, all trends end someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmercy Posted October 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 So you advocate lower fidelity systems? I don't get what you are saying. Experiencing a great soundtrack on a high fidelity system is not a waste of time, IMO. But I do see the point of not enjoying a track because your system highlights the flaws in production. I enjoyed the Godzilla track, especially after modifying it with DSP. But before DSP, it was poor in comparison to the good tracks out there. But yes, TF4 is a disappointment compared to the sonic presentation of TF1 and TF2, which have no clipping, and sounded great (I like TF2's sound more than TF1, but both are very good). All IMO. Someone mixing the track could have just glanced at all the work the brickwall limiter was doing or take a look at the final waveform and realized that they kept overloading the center channel nearly continuously, and adjusted accordingly. Who knows. JSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I thought T3 was the best overall for audio of the first three, but have not seen 4 yet. How does 3 compare to 4 for bass and overall audio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 So you advocate lower fidelity systems? I don't get what you are saying. Experiencing a great soundtrack on a high fidelity system is not a waste of time, IMO. But I do see the point of not enjoying a track because your system highlights the flaws in production. I enjoyed the Godzilla track, especially after modifying it with DSP. But before DSP, it was poor in comparison to the good tracks out there. But yes, TF4 is a disappointment compared to the sonic presentation of TF1 and TF2, which have no clipping, and sounded great (I like TF2's sound more than TF1, but both are very good). All IMO. Someone mixing the track could have just glanced at all the work the brickwall limiter was doing or take a look at the final waveform and realized that they kept overloading the center channel nearly continuously, and adjusted accordingly. Who knows. JSS No! I'm not advocating lower fidelity systems by a long shot , one should always get the best fidelity with in there means . In my personal pursuit of higher Fidelity I leave no stone unturned , as I believe every single aspect of the playback system is a minor or critical link (for me that's also good cables , good power) but I narrowed my focus to extract the best from source material that also has a higher fidelity goal as well i listen to a lot of jazz & classical and have some of the best music ever recorded, this includes movies as well . I pick 5 recordings for my system setup that I'm very familiar ranging from overly bright , close miked,distant spacious and flat sounding, I use these to detect any system changes for good or bad or to see what I've been compensating for, this is a far cry from the many hours I use to spend moving speakers and adjusting delays ( long before DRC , measurements and such ) My modest system to date is the best I can afford and I feel its indeed capable of high fidelity playback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I thought T3 was the best overall for audio of the first three, but have not seen 4 yet. How does 3 compare to 4 for bass and overall audio? Toe I can't wait to hear your take on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 For me TF2 was the best sound track. This one had clipping almost everytime a jet engine, explosion, or fire was involved. I noticed it more than Godzilla but I may have to watch that again. TF1 and 2 also had longer and deeper, more powerful sweeps from memory. These started to be great in TF4 but then all of a sudden stopped. I felt there should have been just a little longer to go deeper compared to the others. It was loud as well, I watched it at reference with the subs 10 dBs hot. It had lots of bass which is a good thing but they could have easily made this 5 star! Here is how I see it, if a movie has 5 stars except level we can easily turn it up and Bam, we have bass nirvana. This is already loud but we can never get the dynamics and extension back, unless it can be Dsp'd. Next on the docket is to try DSP Godzilla! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 For me TF2 was the best sound track. This one had clipping almost everytime a jet engine, explosion, or fire was involved. I noticed it more than Godzilla but I may have to watch that again. TF1 and 2 also had longer and deeper, more powerful sweeps from memory. These started to be great in TF4 but then all of a sudden stopped. I felt there should have been just a little longer to go deeper compared to the others. It was loud as well, I watched it at reference with the subs 10 dBs hot. It had lots of bass which is a good thing but they could have easily made this 5 star! Here is how I see it, if a movie has 5 stars except level we can easily turn it up and Bam, we have bass nirvana. This is already loud but we can never get the dynamics and extension back, unless it can be Dsp'd. Next on the docket is to try DSP Godzilla! 10 db's hot on this one? That must have been insane on your setup ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Toe I can't wait to hear your take on this one. I'm very curious to hear it as well reading all the various comments! I would have been really happy with T3 general mixing but with a bit deeper bass. Thanks for all your impressions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmoney Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I thought the mix was phenomenal. The clipping was the typical ship thrusters while taking off. Not sure why they feel they need to clip that sound But the bass was great. Could have dug s little deeper over all as there were only a few really low hits. But great presentation. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wth718 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Are we no longer able to click on the ratings and see who voted where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I am used to 10 dBs hot on the LFE. I don't like the clipping sound for engines, I would rather have TDK engine sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiofan1 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I think the clipping engine is intentional as its cutting through air with great force, besides has anyone ever had there head that close to engine of that size? it just may clip the in the ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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