BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3

[Bossobass Dave]

If that's what you want and like I have no issue with it at all.  Sound is like food, it's 100% subjective and you can't tell people what tastes good or what they should like.  I simply have a different preference.

 

This "reference" of 115db peaks or whatever that people go crazy about literally makes me yawn.  115db at 60hz and less is a snooze fest that leaves me bored to tears.

 

I'm a crazy bass head and I fully admit it, and 1 or 2 times a month, and for very brief periods of time, I crank the system to near 140db.  Yes it makes my eye balls giggle and distorts my vision.  Yes it's actually hard to breathe and the bass hits are almost painful.  Yes I get a headache almost every time.  Yes I have to clean up whatever mess it makes from things falling all over the place upstairs.  

 

If that's what floats my boat, why should/would I change it?

 

This is a hobby, and like most hobbies that men have, it can get extreme.  If you're telling me all those 15's you have and 14kw of power isn't extreme, then you need your head checked.  I don't think we're all that different 

 

I understand all of that. I never liked nor used subjectives to describe sound other than clean and accurate. The accurate part comes from data. All I ask is to SL the presentation so that we can 'see' what you're describing. A meter reading is weak sauce.

 

The subject of my rant was yet another ported vs sealed wherein the crux is loudness and not much else. We have tools available, so where's the beef?

[lukeamdman]

I understand all of that. I never liked nor used subjectives to describe sound other than clean and accurate. The accurate part comes from data. All I ask is to SL the presentation so that we can 'see' what you're describing. A meter reading is weak sauce.

 

The subject of my rant was yet another ported vs sealed wherein the crux is loudness and not much else. We have tools available, so where's the beef?

 

Beef?  What beef?  

 

As for Spec Lab, I installed it for the first time a couple weeks ago and I have no idea what I'm doing in it.  I imported some settings that you put in a thread in late 2013, but something is still messed up.  

 

The noise floor seems really high, since this is what it shows with nothing playing and the room is silent:

 

 

 

As soon as anything plays, and not even at loud levels, it's purple across the board...

[Bossobass Dave]

Looking at that graph, here are my assumptions:

 

1. You're using a PC

2. If so, you have to go to control panel and click on the 'sound' option.

3. Then, 'microphone' => 'level' and adjust the level so that your mic isn't over driving SL. Unfortunately, this is a trial and error exercise.

4. Go to 'advanced' and click the drop down menu and make sure you select the right sample rate/bit depth setting. I believe the UMIK is 48k Hz/24 bit.

5. On both the 'level' tab and the 'advanced' tab, make sure you hit the 'OK' button after you change the setting or it will go back to it's default setting after you exit.

[laugsbach]

@bosso...great news on the drivers!

 

I have a new windows laptop with HDMI, REW software and a calibrated USB mic from Cross Spectrum Labs. I will have a 30amp run wired here soon and will start off using my Oppo 103...

[Bossobass Dave]

@bosso...great news on the drivers!

 

I have a new windows laptop with HDMI, REW software and a calibrated USB mic from Cross Spectrum Labs. I will have a 30amp run wired here soon and will start off using my Oppo 103...

 

Awesome!

 

[Madaeel]

:o

[Bossobass Dave]

Sound is like food, it's 100% subjective and you can't tell people what tastes good or what they should like.  I simply have a different preference.

 

This is where I've always had an issue, going back from my days as a musician to present.

 

If sound is like food, no, you shouldn't tell someone what food he likes or should like. As well, you can't give someone a plain ham sandwich on white bread and tell him you added extra ham so the cheese, rye bread and mustard aren't needed. 

 

As far as 140dB with no harmonics goes, you can settle that with your SPL rig. It would be interesting info, if you get a chance.

[lukeamdman]

Hey Luke I'm curious you say even at 130db at 15hz you feel nothing in you room. I understand the concrete floor not moving under you but I guess where I'm confused is that you are implying your couch, or whatever you're sitting on, isn't moving either correct? I only ask cuz obviously I know you're not the only one to go ported to feel the bass more and I'm starting to wonder why that is. Rob and others have said nothing below 10hz does anything for them either. I just am not sure how frequencies above 15hz are giving you the tactile sensation while anything below isn't? Especially if you're hitting 130db. That would make my entire house crumble.

 

My room isn't anything special. If I'm standing in the room I don't feel the bass like I do on my first floor which is suspended. When I sit down on the couch though it feels like I have shakers on the couch. Whether or not some of that is transferred from the floor or not idk. I'm guessing not much. However, the waves of bass from the subs literally move the couch. When we were playing '9' over and over Paul was standing behind the couch and it vibrated so hard it scared him. It was f'n hilarious haha.

 

I'm just really curious why others are not getting the same effect from their couches, chairs, etc? I mean even in a room with a suspended floor you get the shake from both the floor vibrating and the bass waves going through the room and furniture.

 

Maybe I have a cheap ass couch.

 

I would love to hear your system in your room and mine. Well as long as I didn't have to help move them.

 

Different couches definitely have different resonant frequencies.  

 

My old couch I have on the front row, it resonates with anything below 25hz.  It really feels like there are bass shakers it resonates so much, and it really adds to the ULF experience.  

 

However, my other couch, that’s on the back row on a riser, does nothing.  This was actually really disappointing to me when I got it that it didn’t have the same affect.  That’s also why I put it on the back row, as maybe with it on the wood riser I’d get more “feel” from it.  

 

I also think I’ve de-sensitized myself somewhat to the “pressurization” effect from ULF content. I remember with my first DIY sub, a 5400 with dual passive radiators tuned to 17hz, that on the Bass I Love You track, it felt like I was under water there was so much pressure being generated in the room.  I’d demo that for people and they’d just start laughing because it was so over the top at the time.  

 

Now, I don’t really feel that anymore.  When I give demos to others, I see them react to the 15hz stuff and they’ll talk about the massive pressure in their ears, but somehow I’ve lost it.    

[Madaeel]

@Luke

Holy shit man you listen at 140db?! Wow. I seriously would be worried for my house. My wife is pretty tolerant but she would kick me out the house if I listened that loud. That is crazy especially down at 15hz. Yah I know couches resonate at different frequencies but you said you feel nothing below 15hz and that's why I asked if your couch is shaking at all. Idk any frequency that doesn't make my couch move it just takes a little more db to do it above 25hz. That's crazy your couch on the riser does nothing. So the couch in the front row moves with anything below 25hz but nothing below 15hz?? That's just odd to me you don't feel anything at those levels below 15hz. Maybe there's a dip in the FR?See I don't get the whole under water feeling either. When I get to 10hz and below its just a creepy shake and you can feel the waves go through you. I know every room is different but others have said they get the same feeling. Max is right I guess. We are more or less sensitive to ULF than others. Like I said I'd love to hear your system though and see the differences.

 

@Larry

Yah I can't wait to see that scene on Dave's system. Should be pretty awesome. Plus Dave has informed me his wife is cooking and I'm fat so that works out perfect. :DBtw just remember that you'll be handicapped with the UMIK. It's an awesome mic for $100 but the Raptors can go a little louder than 125db..it's a little frustrating sometimes. We don't need what Dave has but I kinda wish I had gotten one with a little higher SPL capability.

[lukeamdman]

@Luke

Holy shit man you listen at 140db?! Wow. I seriously would be worried for my house. My wife is pretty tolerant but she would kick me out the house if I listened that loud. That is crazy especially down at 15hz. Yah I know couches resonate at different frequencies but you said you feel nothing below 15hz and that's why I asked if your couch is shaking at all. Idk any frequency that doesn't make my couch move it just takes a little more db to do it above 25hz. That's crazy your couch on the riser does nothing. So the couch in the front row moves with anything below 25hz but nothing below 15hz?? That's just odd to me you don't feel anything at those levels below 15hz. Maybe there's a dip in the FR?See I don't get the whole under water feeling either. When I get to 10hz and below its just a creepy shake and you can feel the waves go through you. I know every room is different but others have said they get the same feeling. Max is right I guess. We are more or less sensitive to ULF than others. Like I said I'd love to hear your system though and see the differences.

 

 

My system now is in the low 130’s at 15hz, but it declines rapidly below that.  I don’t have really any usable output below 12hz, both due to filtering and the capability of the subs even if I wanted to. 

 

Even when I had a large sealed system, the couch that moves with sub 25hz content didn’t resonate much below 13-14hz.

 

As for the 140db listening, the wife would kill me if I did that with her home, so none of that.  Also, even at my “normal” listening levels, the bass is already about 10-12db hot.  When I want my bass fix, I up the sub output by another 10-15db, so the bass is ~30db hot at that point.

 

My ears can’t take treble too far over 100db.  Too painful.    

 

I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re ever in MN I’m always willing to give demos.  

[MKtheater]

My room is a pressure chamber.  It helps to be small or have low ceilings.  Great for spl but bad for reflections.  When bass hits over 126 dBs with 25hz and up my ears get plugged and uncomfortable.  Maybe our spl meters are wrong? Who knows but I know below 25hz my ears are fine but the room gets pummeled.  I really believe the difference is the LT boost.  I know with my sealed systems I could watch 12 dBs hot all day long with the LFE but if I add a proper LT 12 dBs seems too overpowering.  I have a ported system right now but at around 6hz(due to not sealing the massive speakers enough) and it created a LT and I can not run much past 4 dBs hot.  I could, but then I get the call from upstairs! 

[Madaeel]

My system now is in the low 130’s at 15hz, but it declines rapidly below that.  I don’t have really any usable output below 12hz, both due to filtering and the capability of the subs even if I wanted to. 

 

Even when I had a large sealed system, the couch that moves with sub 25hz content didn’t resonate much below 13-14hz.

 

As for the 140db listening, the wife would kill me if I did that with her home, so none of that.  Also, even at my “normal” listening levels, the bass is already about 10-12db hot.  When I want my bass fix, I up the sub output by another 10-15db, so the bass is ~30db hot at that point.

 

My ears can’t take treble too far over 100db.  Too painful.    

 

I’m not sure where you’re located, but if you’re ever in MN I’m always willing to give demos.  

Yah I'm starting to watch how loud I listen. That's why I run the Raptors 10-15db hot because I rarely listen at reference anymore. Most movies are in DTS now and they're almost always hotter than a soundtrack in DD. If I listen to music it's never that loud. Sustained levels would hurt too much and I had tinnitus in my right ear for a month and then it finally went away so I won't push it anymore. 100db is still pretty loud for most people and me too. Only on movie peaks is that tolerable.

 

Yah that's odd about the couch. Like I said, before Dave came up I wasn't sure how it would feel in my room but luckily I get plenty of feel. During the Hulk cannon scene and when he punches Abomination into the ground it feels amazing. That 10hz punch has so much weight to it. Not to mention the doors sound like they're gonna burst open. If I didn't get that I'd for sure go nearfield.

 

Smart man waiting till your wife leaves. They just don't understand our bass needs.

 

I have always wanted to go to the Mall of America.

 

My room is a pressure chamber.  It helps to be small or have low ceilings.  Great for spl but bad for reflections.  When bass hits over 126 dBs with 25hz and up my ears get plugged and uncomfortable.  Maybe our spl meters are wrong? Who knows but I know below 25hz my ears are fine but the room gets pummeled.  I really believe the difference is the LT boost.  I know with my sealed systems I could watch 12 dBs hot all day long with the LFE but if I add a proper LT 12 dBs seems too overpowering.  I have a ported system right now but at around 6hz(due to not sealing the massive speakers enough) and it created a LT and I can not run much past 4 dBs hot.  I could, but then I get the call from upstairs! 

Yah see 10db hot in my room sounds perfect. Between the room, FR and roll-off I'm sure is where our differences lie.

[lukeamdman]

Looking at that graph, here are my assumptions:

 

1. You're using a PC

2. If so, you have to go to control panel and click on the 'sound' option.

3. Then, 'microphone' => 'level' and adjust the level so that your mic isn't over driving SL. Unfortunately, this is a trial and error exercise.

4. Go to 'advanced' and click the drop down menu and make sure you select the right sample rate/bit depth setting. I believe the UMIK is 48k Hz/24 bit.

5. On both the 'level' tab and the 'advanced' tab, make sure you hit the 'OK' button after you change the setting or it will go back to it's default setting after you exit.

 

3. Level was at 10 of 100, so I set it to 1

4. It's currently at 24-bit and 48khz, and I can't change it anyway

5. Check

 

Same thing in SL, but not as bad, but ~95-100db bass is causing purple everywhere.  

 

This look right?

 

[Bossobass Dave]

OK, try this:

 

Click the down arrow highlighted in the circle:

 

[MKtheater]

Adam, I was not talking about our differences but why some don't feel the low stuff. I mean the differences are like comparing a movie like TIH to Godzilla. TIH just feels heavy and deep where Godzilla is not. One can not run just 10hz and under and see if something happens. It is the same as listening to just 10khz and above. You don't see people low passing at 10khz because it is just annoying tones when isolated. It is all part of the sounds created.

[Madaeel]

Yah I know. When I said "our" I meant in general. You described how your room reacts and feels. Your room doesn't behave the same way mine does. Dave doesn't run his subs hot at all on WotW and I'm 15db hot. Luke can barely feel anything below 15hz. Hence why I said room, FR, and roll-off are the causes. Well that and ULF perception perhaps.

[lukeamdman]

OK, try this:

 

Click the down arrow highlighted in the circle:

 

 

Going down only made it worse, but going up a new notches seemed to help.

 

However, once levels reach anywhere near ~100db it looks as though my MIC input is overloading SL still.

 

 

[Bossobass Dave]

Yes, that's what it looked like initially and now it definitely appears to be a mic/PC levels setting issue. Since there is no interface it has to be in the PC's control panel. I'm a Mac guy and windows is as intuitive to me as a treasure hunt in a dark cave. If your mic level setting is already at 1, not sure what the options are on a PC.

[lukeamdman]

Yes, that's what it looked like initially and now it definitely appears to be a mic/PC levels setting issue. Since there is no interface it has to be in the PC's control panel. I'm a Mac guy and windows is as intuitive to me as a treasure hunt in a dark cave. If your mic level setting is already at 1, not sure what the options are on a PC.

If i default the SL settings, it no longer has the really high mic input levels, but of course the entire view/color palette changes. I'll start here and work back to your view settings.

[Bossobass Dave]

What OS?

[Madaeel]

Hey Luke I think mine did that as well when it was defaulting to the PC's speakers and not the mic itself. I remember Paul saying to make sure I had it set to default to the mic in the sound options under recording.

[lukeamdman]

What OS?

 

Win7 64-bit

[Bossobass Dave]

Hey Luke I think mine did that as well when it was defaulting to the PC's speakers and not the mic itself. I remember Paul saying to make sure I had it set to default to the mic in the sound options under recording.

 

Yeah, it has to be something in the windows control panel. SL has nothing to do with input level as fa as I know.

[lukeamdman]

Hey Luke I think mine did that as well when it was defaulting to the PC's speakers and not the mic itself. I remember Paul saying to make sure I had it set to default to the mic in the sound options under recording.

 

I already did that for REW, so that's already set correctly.  

[lukeamdman]

Yeah, it has to be something in the windows control panel. SL has nothing to do with input level as fa as I know.

 

I took screen shots of the ~15 different settings tabs of your settings.  

 

Starting at the default settings, I don't have the MIC input problem.  Once I either import your settings or go through tab by tab and configure SL the same, the problem appears.  

 

If it were an issue in the control panel, I'd be having the same issue with REW but I don't.  It's definitely a setting in SL, I just need to find out which one.