JBL 2269H 18" Differential Drive Discussion

[Ricci]

Discussion of JBL's most powerful differential drive woofer should go here. 

This is an oldie but a goody. It's an expensive bugger like most of the woofers I test these days but it is still a cut above most of the 18" units on the market.  I always wanted to test one of these just to see how good it is. I don't expect many people to go out and buy these for a project at those prices but it is still a common driver to see in the industry in a lot of JBL's top Pro subs. I figure giving it a run through here should help give insight into the capabilities of the various JBL subs using the 2269H. It doesn't have the crazy efficiency and motor force of the drivers coming out in the last 5 years, but it does seem to offer quite a bit of power handling and raw displacement capability. It's too bad you never see these on the second hand market for a few hundred dollars like you can pick up other legacy JBL units for. It might be an option then. The retail price is a killer. It really doesn't seem like these would be that expensive to produce either with JBL's economy of scale and having been around for so long. 

 

https://data-bass.com/#/drivers/5cd9d5e8bd4b990004557d17

[Kyle]

Awe.. the 2269. This driver has had so much enigma behind it since it first game out, esp. because you couldn't buy it outside of the incredibly expensive Vertec stuff or the god damn Everest itself! That awesome to get the results here. Good work Josh! This was the target when making the Pro 5100.

 

 

 

[radulescu_paul_mircea]

Very nice!! I love that driver. This year JBL launched a new sub in the VTX line with a new driver and they say it is a big Improvement, +4 dB at 80 compared to 2269H and better power handling, 1400 W instead of 1200W. 

It seems that they are not using the AES standard of power rating, instead they use Klippel measurements. A 2kw driver AES like 21SW152 can take around 1.1 kW nominal based on RMS voltage in the nominal Impedance on the Klippel LSI reports, with 4-5 dB power compression. This is probably the case with these drivers also.

Now it's time for the new NTLW5000 models . I have a pair of 21s with 4 ohm coils , first of them ever. The motor force is over 200 , coils are 2 of 38 mm each minimum from my calculations and verifications, copper, wire gauge is 0.6 mm, magnetic gaps are 12 mm . The 2 coils are 8 ohms each and linked in parallel. The spider suspension material seems pretty much the same as that from this JBL driver.

[Ricci]

Interesting. Got a model # or a link to the sub with the new JBL driver? I have not heard about this. 

Did you finally get those 5000's? We still have nothing over here.

[radulescu_paul_mircea]

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/tour-sound/vtx-a-series/vtx-b18#.XNwR5LdRU0M

Yes , I got my drivers a few weeks ago, they are absolutely stunning. I love the way they perform and the new materials used  for them 

[radulescu_paul_mircea]

Looking at the cutout of the 2269, it seems that the design for NTLW5000 driver is pretty much the same. The pole pieces are the same shape, the magnet inside is single 2 cm thick ring of about 4" external diameter with a center whole inside of 2 cm, meaning about 1.1 kg of neo.

The external metal ring is also closing the magnetic circuit, but not having a similar heat sink, it might not dissipate the heat as well. 

All my tests show that the driver behaves absolutely stunning up to 50 mm peak to peak, after which it starts to become noisy. Klippel results show flat BL until +-10 mm, similar to that of a split coil design, but then it dropps with a very low slope, remaining at 75% at +-17.5 mm.

[Ricci]

Thanks for linking to the JBL. New driver name is 2288H. I was unable to find much on it yet. My gut tells me it may have similar excursion as the 2269H but slightly improved power handling and higher efficiency. Looks like it is only used in the VTX B18 at this point. I really dig the port flaring on that cabinet. It wouldn't be too hard to do something similar on a 3D printer. I'm assuming they are using a quarter section of very large pipe for the ports.

Congrats on the 5000's I still plan to get ahold of one at some point.

[radulescu_paul_mircea]

The ports are the corner iteration from their own 2*15" version, the VTX V25. I've seen that one in real life and I've heard another version of the VTX with single 18" driver, but with their nice dual flared tubes and they really really work way better than a similar surface square vent.

I bet they went for a higher motor force , higher moving mass with lower Q, increasing sensitivity on the upper end. 

[Mark Dalquist]

Ricci and others.................  

I just saw a big price drop on the 2269H.  It is definitely more attractive at this price.  

https://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-2269h-18-lf-8-ohm-boxed/

[stoneeh]

Since the NTLW5000 came up, here is one of mine in a 65l CB, maxing out on a 20 Hz sine signal. The measurement is taken at 1m half space; however, the measurement is C-rated, which means -6 dB @ 20 Hz. So you can equate these values to non-rated (flat) full space.

You obviously can't hear the 20 Hz signal, but it's quite easy to hear the (K3 dominated) harmonic distortion coming in above 100 dB.

I tried measuring with the CEA 2010 standard and got a passing result at 20 Hz of 103,5 dB; similar to your (Ricci) value of the BMS 18N862. I'm pretty sure I measured correctly; but it was my first CEA 2010 measurements, and different variables.. so I sure would be looking forward to you testing the driver as well.

What happened to the 2269H btw.? You listed it, but seems like you never measured it?

I have been a viewer of this site for a couple of years, find it very helpful, and greatly appreciate your efforts Ricci.

[Ricci]

I've been busy with other things and haven't done much related to bass or subs in a long time. I still have the 2269H and some other drivers that I need to GP test in the sealed cabs at some point. I may get back to it next spring. Maybe not. 

[Ricci]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:21 PM, stoneeh said:

Since the NTLW5000 came up, here is one of mine in a 65l CB, maxing out on a 20 Hz sine signal.

Careful using slow sine waves for this type of testing. It's a good way to cook a voice coil. 

[peniku8]

On 9/27/2020 at 12:21 AM, stoneeh said:

I tried measuring with the CEA 2010 standard [...] I'm pretty sure I measured correctly

CEA2010 seems straightforward in theory, but is a real PITA in practice. So much so, that people are saying that you can't compare measurements made with different setups/by different people. The results can vary as much as several db, even when everybody thinks their setup is perfect. There is an interesting read on ASR on how temperature influenced bass response and the differences are quite big. I'm certain that would also show up in large signal distortion measurements.

I've read somewhere that Don Keele compared his measurements with a loudspeaker manufacturer and somebody from an audio magazine and their results were up to 3db apart at some frequencies. It might've been in the paper I attached, but it also might've been elsewhere.

So it's generally advisable to approach and compare those measurements with care.

CEA2010 Average.xls CEA-2010.pdf

[Jonas_h]

Have any of you tried the 2269H in sealed enclosures? I have three JBL 5628 subs (ported@25h with dual 2269H) but in my upcoming theater I'm trying to save some space in the room and was considering using the drivers in a shallow and sealed type of enclosure. (Google Procella P18 - a clone basically). 

I know I will give up output below ~40-50hz, but given that I have six drivers and almost unlimited power for them, could this work? Room is ~3000 cu.feet.