21" Othorns under 18" USBV2 hybrid horn?

[Revilof]

So our system currently consists of 8 usbv2s, 2 es218s and 4 kmt8 (stable audio). Which runs nicely from 35hz and up, however they drop off quite sharply after this and I have major fomo for lower frequencies, I have been scouting around and othorns for their output and size seem to fit the bill. I highly doubt anyone will currently be running a combo of othorns and usbv2s, but the usbv2s are fairly similar to turbosound and f1 single 18" hybrid horns which are much more common. Has anyone ran othorns with single 18" hybrids and if so, are they easy to align and how did they sound? 

Cheers, 

Oliver.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Revilof
Amending my dumbness

[peniku8]

By the time you have enough Othorns to keep up with the midbass of the other horns, you can get rid of the USBv2s entirely. Beisdes that, the Othorn isn't an infra design, they will probably not add as much as you'd hope for. If you want infras, you might want to look into a custom vented cab tuned to ~20Hz or so, but you will need a lot of juice (and a lot of cabs). And then ask yourself, do you even need them?

[Revilof]

6 hours ago, peniku8 said:

By the time you have enough Othorns to keep up with the midbass of the other horns, you can get rid of the USBv2s entirely. Beisdes that, the Othorn isn't an infra design, they will probably not add as much as you'd hope for. If you want infras, you might want to look into a custom vented cab tuned to ~20Hz or so, but you will need a lot of juice (and a lot of cabs). And then ask yourself, do you even need them?

Thanks for the reply and information, I suppose I'm not actually looking for infrabass then, but something to fill in the lower frequencies that the USBv2s just can't reach, as every time I go out an hear something with that deep rumble it makes me sad we cant do that 😂. Also keeping up with the USBv2s shouldn't be a problem as most of the time we would just bring one sub to one mid bass and if the full system is out it is usually much more than what is needed and we keep the gain down so it is a nice and coherent and not overpowering.

We would be selling the es218s and looking to find a relatively small cab with a good frequency range from around 25hz-50hz and run the usbv2s from 50hz-100hz and run the kmt8s from there an up. We currently have an mc2 e90 or Zp z8 (4x2000w @8ohm) to run whatever we decide on getting. But out of everything othorns are still looking good

[SME]

Maybe you can build some SKORNs or SKRAMs (see other threads on this forum) and plug one of the vents to get down into the 20s?  Though again if you do this, you won't need the USBv2s at all anymore as those cabs run up to 100 Hz or higher.

[Revilof]

21 minutes ago, SME said:

Maybe you can build some SKORNs or SKRAMs (see other threads on this forum) and plug one of the vents to get down into the 20s?  Though again if you do this, you won't need the USBv2s at all anymore as those cabs run up to 100 Hz or higher.

Thanks for the reply, I will have another look into the skrams but the skhorns are too big for what we're looking for. I'm not looking to replace the usbv2s with anything but looking for something to compliment them and fill in the gap they miss.

Correct me if i am wrong as my knowledge is limited, but to me it would make sense to split the frequencies between different bass cabs to have more power and processing available rather than having full range bass cabinets? 

[klipsch]

Sell 8 usbv2s. Build skrams. 

Avoid needing extra equipment for integrating, powering, and eq'ing multiple cabinets. 

Sounds like that is an answer that does not want to be heard. 

[Revilof]

1 hour ago, klipsch said:

Sell 8 usbv2s. Build skrams. 

Avoid needing extra equipment for integrating, powering, and eq'ing multiple cabinets. 

Sounds like that is an answer that does not want to be heard. 

Yeah not the information I was hoping for 😅 so any reason why that should be  avoided (apart from phase issues)? 

We're keeping the usbv2s as they're just too useful, I can fit 8 of them, 4 tops, amp rack and lights into a swb low roof ford transit by myself, which wont be possible with if we replaced them with skrams or most other cabinets.

[SME]

I don't know what your definition of "useful" is, but if you are space constrained, then I think you will find SKRAMs to be much more useful than the usbv2s.  As a broad generality, the total space requirement of your cabinets will be dominated by the low-end elements.  If this is not the case, then it almost certainly means that the system is unbalanced and that the low-end is relatively insufficient.  This is true even for a "balanced" vs. intentionally bass heavy system.  If the particular form factor of the SKRAM does not stack well in your truck, you can consider other designs like the CKRAM or a custom BP6 and/or vented cabinet with a more "useful" form factor.  You really can't get away from the total space (enclosure volume) requirements however.

Also, combining multiple acoustic sources is not merely a matter of dealing with phase issues.  To oversimplify, separate acoustic sources don't really play together.  A crossover is a fudge.  Some XOs are better than others, but unless they are extremely precise, they are imperfect and the effects on sound quality are very degrading.  Of course, one cannot reproduce the full audible spectrum (especially with high bass output) from a single type of driver, so crossovers are a necessary evil.  I believe crossovers should be avoided where possible.

Also keep in mind that you'll likely want to substantially bass-boost the frequency area under the last crossover, regardless of where it is.  I'm not going to get into my hypothesized reasons why this is preferred, but I doubt anyone here will argue with me about this point.  If you need a stack of mid-bass bins to achieve your output requirements, you're gonna need an insane amount of bottom-end to really deliver that "deep sound" you're looking for.  In reality, you probably don't need that much mid-bass, and if your deep bass needs are sufficiently met by an array of BP6 or vented cabs with high quality pro-style drivers (not too heavy---with controlled inductance), then what you need in the mid-bass up to 100 Hz (or whatever the cabs can do cleanly) will be more than adequately provided by such cabs.

Overall, most people here would agree that the Othorn is largely superceded by the BP6 designs because of their wider bandwidth capability and much better looking upper-end response overall.  (The construction is also simpler!)  I don't doubt that there are exceptions, but these will tend to be very niche.

[peniku8]

I can just echo the others here. Once you get proper subs to supply the bottom end you're looking for, these cabs will also be able to replace your current subs. And if I was space limited, bass horns would be the last thing I'd load into my truck. IPALs it would get, in tiny vented cabs.

[klipsch]

Or buy a lot of pa460s - put them in a sealed cube enclosure - with dual, dual opposed boxes (4 sided with drivers). They'll be light, easy to stack, and go deep, but will take a bit more space. 

Or just build SKRAMs and toast a few with Ricci for sharing an excellent design. 

 

[Revilof]

Thanks for the reply and information, however for the time being I just don't have the space (transport/storage) or even funds to replace out the usbv2s with something justifiable just yet, for a 30"x30"x20" box that weighs about 30kg and has a clean output down to 35hz they're silly and look amazing.

If I had the space available I would probably get skhorns built (based on the systems list), but for storage reference here's my garage where most of it needs to be stored. The Es218s are elsewhere and whatever else I got would need to fit into their floorspace as they would be getting replaced. 

I guess for the time being I will just have to suck it up and sad dance whenever I hear that deep low rumble 😅😂

[peniku8]

Funds and space for entirely new subs will be less than what you'd need (overall) to get additional subs to fill out the lowest octave.

Looks like you're just collecting ideas at this point, since neither funds nor space for your initial proposal is available either.

You can possibly replace your 8 subs with 4 Skrams and get the same midbass output, plus better sub bass, but you will likely need new amps as well. Well, to use them to their full potential at least. 3-5KW per Skram should be a good match with TotL drivers (burst; they will melt if you give them 5KW sustained averages).

[Revilof]

20 hours ago, peniku8 said:

Funds and space for entirely new subs will be less than what you'd need (overall) to get additional subs to fill out the lowest octave.

Looks like you're just collecting ideas at this point, since neither funds nor space for your initial proposal is available either.

You can possibly replace your 8 subs with 4 Skrams and get the same midbass output, plus better sub bass, but you will likely need new amps as well. Well, to use them to their full potential at least. 3-5KW per Skram should be a good match with TotL drivers (burst; they will melt if you give them 5KW sustained averages).

Thanks for the reply, I am not planning on having everything built at once due to those reasons but from selling the es218s and putting in the money I have, I would have the storage and funds to have two dedicated subs built and add have more built once funds and storage are available.

[klipsch]

Start with 2 skrams. Then sell 4 of existing 'old' subs. Then do 2 more skrams with raised funds. Then sell remaining old subs.