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maxmercy

The Low Frequency Content Thread (films, games, music, etc)

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2 hours ago, timcat4843 said:

That is terrific news.  I hope more film mixing stages and cinemas use the VLFC and other solutions for monitoring and playback of infrasound in films.

JSS

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The blu-ray I hope has the infrasonic content.  I will buy this title if it does.

JSS

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39 minutes ago, maxmercy said:

The blu-ray I hope has the infrasonic content.  I will buy this title if it does.

At least if it doesn't, you'll know it got dropped in the home mix.

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In other news, the new Hellboy II 4k DTS:X mix has been butchered. I first heard about the H2 mix here, and I know it was considered among the greatest. But the new mixers considered it was appropriate to filter it and reduce the levels. 

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On 5/12/2019 at 5:38 PM, AmerCa said:

In other news, the new Hellboy II 4k DTS:X mix has been butchered. I first heard about the H2 mix here, and I know it was considered among the greatest. But the new mixers considered it was appropriate to filter it and reduce the levels. 

That is awful.  

JSS

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Why do the studios find it necessary to filter the bass on Blu-ray releases? Are they totally unaware of the capabilities of the Blu-ray format?

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10 hours ago, timcat4843 said:

Why do the studios find it necessary to filter the bass on Blu-ray releases? Are they totally unaware of the capabilities of the Blu-ray format?

No.  They just aren't aware of the impact filtering has on the sound.  That's very unfortunate.

It has occurred to me though that filtering may very often happen by accident.  For example, an "audio enhancement" plugin like a subharmonic synthesizer may be used to try to add *more* bottom end content, but the synthesizer plug-in may itself employ a filter, something that may be at least configurable but is likely enabled by default.  If that's what happened to Hellboy2, that would be quite sad being that it had plenty of bottom already (according to measurements here; I haven't heard the track myself).

FWIW, I believe subharmonic synthesis is being applied to a lot of tracks these days and can sound really good if used judiciously and if a high-pass filter is not present or is reversed (to the extent this is possible).  Sometimes it can be over the top, either a bit or a whole lot.  Even without BEQ to flatten the 30 Hz hump, "Aquaman" was just nuts with ULF content everywhere, including lots of stuff where it probably didn't belong.  I wonder if the mixers would have done things differently if they had experienced all that ULF?

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Avengers: Endgame (Dolby ATMOS 7.1 channel bed)

Level: 4 Stars (110.9dB composite)

Extension: 3 Stars (16Hz)

Dynamics: 5 Stars (29.44dB)

Execution: TBD

Overall: TBD

Notes: the DTS 7.1 track is not as dynamic as the ATMOS track.

226690392_AvengersEndgame.thumb.jpg.512a614bd1e9e36d760270a1f934b995.jpg

JSS

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And now for a random post about sound quality between home-remixes, specifically concerning "The Followship of the Ring: Extended Edition" on BD vs DVD.

It's been years since I've watched the movie or even selections from it.  I had kind of planned to play the whole trilogy after upgrading to a projector + screen, which still hasn't happened yet.  But today I got the urge to run through some scenes to hear how it sounds on my current reference quality system.  FOTR:EE in particular was a favorite of mine since it came out.  So I did, and it was --- OK.  So then I realized that I kept the DVD versions after reading here that the soundtracks may be different.  Let me just say:  Wow,  what a difference!

To be specific, I compared the BD with DTS-HD 6.1 vs. DVD DTS-ES 6.1 tracks back-to-back, using the Balrog scene starting back at "drums in the deep".  A more fair comparison would use rapid A/B, but the differences were substantial enough that I'm confident in my conclusion without A/B.  IMO, the DVD soundtrack is superior in every way.  Both are mixed rather loud with clipping scattered throughout, but the BD is louder and the clipping much more apparent.  The BD also seemed to have hyped treble vs. a much more natural (if still grainy, analog sound) in the DVD.  The BD had plenty of boom and rumble from its 30-40 Hz emphasis, but the DVD revealed all that was lost from this treatment.  While it was not clear whether the DVD had more extension than the BD (it certainly had *less* 30-40 Hz bass), the mid-bass on the DVD was far superior.  Transient clarity was far better with a lot more detail experienced in the tactile dimension on almost all effects.  This was especially apparent with the pieces of the bridge clashing together.  Bass instruments in the score (drums, male vocals, low string notes, trombones, etc.) were both more tactile and had much more mid-range clarity.  Even the dialog sounded better in the lows and mids.

Clearly, the BD mixers were overconfident in the quality of their monitoring system and probably also naive as to the consequences of their changes.  By the time Gandalf had been dragged into the underworld I was feeling annoyed and disenchanted with the BD sound and turned it off.  On the DVD the sound compelled me to keep watching beyond that point.  All this isn't to say that the DVD track is somehow flawless.  I was actually surprised at how many problems I heard throughout, some of which were quite embarrassing.  In hindsight, it's kind of remarkable that this was treated as a reference in its time.  Even the score recording left a lot to be desired compared to music recordings going back decades.  Either way though, the DVD is IMO a much better track, and if I ever watch these movies again, I'll be inclined to try to rip both discs and see if I can stitch together the DVD audio with the BD video.  At least the BD video was mostly better, albeit with some de-saturation and greenish tint compared to the DVD (as reported in reviews at the time it came out).  If they ever do a UHD release for LOTRs, I hope they throw out the BD audio and start with whatever they used for the DVD DTS-ES track.  And of course, don't boost the bottom only to put a steep shelf or HPF at 20-30 Hz!  We can always hope.

Anyone else have both DVD and BD versions of LOTR:EE?  Try the comparison (don't forget to select DTS-ES 6.1 on the DVD), and post your thoughts.  :)

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You’d think professional engineers with their name on something that will heard by tens of millions would take a little more pride.  I’m surprised by how many movie sound tracks have such poor audio.  I guess they tune for a sound bar and move on to the next poor movie soundtrack.  I feel my blood pressure boiling.  👹

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They also ultimately answer to the director.  If he wants it louder sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

FOTR always had a hot soundtrack, even in the theaters.

 

Quote

I was actually surprised at how many problems I heard throughout, some of which were quite embarrassing.  In hindsight, it's kind of remarkable that this was treated as a reference in its time.  

 

That's still happening today.  Lot's of people think The Dark Knight Rises has a great soundtrack.

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The Dark Night rises started off great, the beginning scene was great, although loud, very loud. 

I don't own the DVD any more but I remember liking the DVD dts better than the bluray although I still use the Balrog scene for testing purposes(the dark night as well) because I know them so well. 

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MK/SME,

I remember doing some comparisons:

I can revisit this if there is enough interest.  Apparently we will get a 4k version in 2021.

JSS

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I think I may try re-doing the FOTP:EE comparison, maybe with proper A/B this time.

This may sound wacky, but I discovered that the speaker terminals to both HF sections of my L and were bridged with spider webs.  I am suspecting that problem may have contributed a skrunky sound to the very top-end, and the extra top-end in the BD version may have been reproduced badly and corrupted my judgment of the rest of the spectrum.

I wish I'd known about SpeakOn before I built these speakers.  I guess SpeakOn could be considered to be an audiophile accessory now.  :)

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The bathroom wallpaper in my grandparents old house was covered with ads like that one (along side miracle fat removers and hair elimination).  One could easily spend an hour or more taking a dump with that distraction

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