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nube

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Everything posted by nube

  1. nube
    This is a list of the longest, most intense bass scenes from movies, as recommended by you guys. These are all done digitally, so they're what's on the disc. The SpecLab settings are the same for each graph, aside from a little time dilation or compression to fit the scenes, so they're mostly directly comparable. I'll gladly take requests, but please request only epic scenes that are more than five or ten seconds, not just loud effects. Give exact timestamps from the disc, if you can. Olympus Has Fallen - Washington Monument (0:26:55 - 0:27-16) Earth to Echo - Launch (1:16:32 - 1:18:02) All Is Lost - Storm (1:24:27 - 1:25:22) The Last Airbender - Water Wall Oz The Great and Powerful - Tornado (0:18:09 - 0:19:00) Pulse - Server Room The Wolverine Extended Unleashed - Hiroshima Nuke (0:03:39 - 0:04:29) War of the Worlds - Ground Cracking War of the Worlds - Death Rays War of the Worlds - Plane Crash Forum only allows 10 images per post, so continued on the next post.
  2. nube
    I've been doing a lot of thinking and talking about this, 'cause I think it's important. We've all read about the frequency response of the mixing studios and dubbing/design stages. I don't see how the subs in these studios could or should have any impact on what is recorded by inanimate objects (the mics). That seems to be another way of arguing that the recordists and/or sound designers are specifically applying filters to match the output capabilities of their target audience. I completely agree that they do this last bit, and with good reason, but I still think it's artificial to apply filters to adjust the full-range recorded sounds to any frequency response. I agree with Bosso that it's pretty unlikely that such a high-dollar industry, which prides itself on meeting all the important specs, would choose inferior equipment with which to record, design and mix audio. Their equipment is the best of the best, and to think it has rolloff starting at 30-35Hz, when the easy-to-meet retail junk standard has been 20Hz for a very long time, is silliness. I wager that both do, at some point within the sound design and/or mixing. I don't see any other logical way for the significant, consistent, yet not always apparent negative slopes (filters) to exist. I do not look in depth at each individual channel because my HDDs are slow, and such actions bog down my primary computer when I do stuff like that. However, I would imagine it's worthwhile to do so...sometimes. Broadly to everyone, I think that there may be multiple schools of thought in the mixing/design community. It seems that there are consistently some sound folks who purposely do not filter at any stage of design or mixing. Are these guys using different equipment, stuff without rolloff, than all the others? My assumption is that they're not, and I'm also pretty sure they're not ALWAYS enhancing natural sounds by synthetically giving them 3 octaves lower output. That seems silly once it gets down past 10Hz, where they're never likely to be able to monitor that stuff. I think it's more likely that they just aren't purposely filtering out the really deep content that is there in natural sounds, and not artificially creating it. There are many others who seem to always filter, to whatever degree - be it 2nd/3rd order, low shelf, or the brick wall. Is it reasonable to assume that they're using inferior equipment? I find that unlikely, given all of their huge budgets. Thus, I think they're artificially filtering at some point. Their reasoning could be based on a variety of concerns, such as faulty assumptions of hearing based on the conventional wisdom derived from the 80yr old ELC curve testing done by Fletcher and Munson, or it may be out of caution for the theater equipment, or it may be that they want to have the highest amplitude effects at the room-exciting frequencies of 27, 32, etc. that they've found create the most "impact" in typical theater seating.
  3. nube
    The Fifth Element (5.1 TrueHD) Level - 2 Stars (106.3dB composite) Extension - 1 Star (28Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.79dB) Execution - 2 Stars (by poll) Overall - 2.5 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: I really like the movie, but the bass is almost nonexistent. One of the loudest effects comes as an interesting midbass sweep right near the beginning. Other than that, not much to say. PvA:
  4. nube
    I don't mind the questions. I will admit that I don't know that much about how this stuff is produced, but it doesn't really matter how it's produced. Let deductive logic guide your reasoning. Natural rolloff of synthetic sound effects is an oxymoron. If there is no rolloff in natural sounds recorded in foley (or elsewhere), which I feel like is an established fact, there has to be a reason they exhibit a negative beta (slope), right? If it doesn't exist naturally, what else shall we call negative slope implemented in the design and/or the recording? The most common negative slopes are precisely 2nd or 3rd order. In this case, it's 3rd order across most of the measured trend line:
  5. nube
    I say filtered when I see the red average line that has a steady slope down. Perhaps that's not correct, but it sure looks to me like the recorded sounds and designed effects have a filter of some sort starting at 36Hz. How else can we account for the constant slope of the average content in the mix, if not a filter at some point in its production? Real recordings of a multitude of sounds don't exhibit such a slope, as evidenced by the recordings and SL graphs of sounds we each experience everyday.
  6. nube
    Frozen (7.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (108.2dB composite) Extension - 2 Stars (24Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.11dB) Execution - 2 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) Notes: I had really high hopes for this one, but it didn't pan out at all. It's filtered at 36Hz. The best effects barely get below 30Hz with any authority. And, contrary to the film's IMDb rating, the movie itself wasn't very compelling at all. About the best thing in this movie was the singing, which was pretty good. PvA:
  7. nube
    Out of the Furnace (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 2 Stars (106.6dB composite) Extension - 3 Stars (18Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (32.49dB) Execution - 3 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3.25 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  8. nube
    Homefront (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 4 Stars (110.9dB composite) Extension - 4 Stars (13Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.08dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  9. nube
    The Grandmaster - USA 108min Cut (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 4 Stars (111.86dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.78dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) Notes: Very solid content from 15Hz on down. Oddly, it's only 5.1 compared to the Chinese released 7.1 DTS-HD MA. Even so, it has greater level and better extension, though lower dynamics. I don't know what was added/removed, but it looks like a better mix for bass fiends. PvA: Comparison of the two mixes:
  10. nube
    Avatar Extended Collector's Edition (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (109dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.72dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: This one has a lot of DC to 1.5Hz content recorded on the disc, the highest amplitude of which occurs at odd places. Pretty much nothing between there and 20Hz, except for that one 10s effect @ 13Hz.. Really strange (to me) that the director spent so much time on cutting edge cinematography and CG, but then released this in a 5.1 mix. PvA:
  11. nube
    maxmercy and I have been hard at work re-measuring all the old films, and so you'll see some jockeying for position in the ratings. We're also trying to catch up requests. Since we're posting polls for each new movie measurement, those seem like the natural places to discuss each movie. Keep requesting new ones here, though, if you want.
  12. nube
    The Hunger Games: Catching Fire (7.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (108.8dB composite) Extension - 3 Stars (18Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.59dB) Execution - 3 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3.5 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  13. nube
    Bullet (5.1 TrueHD) Level - 3 Stars (109.7dB composite) Extension - 4 Stars (10Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.01dB) Execution - 3 Stars (by executive decision on stalled polling) Overall - 3.75 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  14. nube
    Haunter (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (109.5dB composite) Extension - 2 Stars (20Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.83dB) Execution - 2 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  15. nube
    Gangster Squad (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (109.1dB composite) Extension - 2 Stars (20Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.64dB) Execution - 3 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3.25 Stars Recommendation - Rent (by poll) PvA:
  16. nube
    Perhaps, DD, but you should also consider the director and mixer talking, in that Soundworks Collection video that bosso posted, about how Gravity was initially mixed for 7.1, then remixed for Atmos, but then we got a 5.1 DTS-HD MA mix on the retail BR disc. Thus, I'm not sure we can conclude anything about Atmos interfering with or contributing to the retail disc mix we have.
  17. nube
    The A-Team (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 2 Stars (106.9dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.04dB) Execution - 3 Stars (by poll) Overall - 3.5 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) PvA:
  18. nube
    Also, John and I have talked about that content at or near DC in the past, and I think he said it's better to keep the ratings the same than to let some subjective element into the extension rating. We're just measuring what's on the disc, with no value judgment about whether or not it's intentional, nor whether or not you could or should reproduce it. I'm generally in agreement, though it does require the reader to be a little more attentive to situations like this when comparing movies by this metric.
  19. nube
    In the linked video, Skip says it was mixed for 7.1 initially, then later mixed for Atmos. Specifically, regarding the 7.1 mix, the director Cuarón said it's directional - if there's a person behind the camera on screen, the sound comes from behind you. Why the heck is the BR only 5.1 DTS-HD MA, then? Cheapski initial release to pad their bottom line with special releases?
  20. nube
    I don't remember the exact timestamp, but I can graph it if you want. To me, it seemed like an effect that was designed without any filters in place. I think it probably came from an unfiltered real-life recording of something, but was then manipulated in software to create the desired sound, and put in someone's effects library then pulled out to be used in Finding Nemo. When watching the movie's SpecLab scroll window, it's the highest amplitude content below 23Hz in the whole movie. I think it's likely that everyone, and I mean everyone, has DC blocking caps in their signal chain that completely eliminate this from being reproduced. This actually happens a fair amount for effects from 3Hz on down - they're just there, and I think only maybe bosso can reproduce any portion of them. Sometimes they're seemingly random and not attached to any other effect, and sometimes they're part of a larger-bandwidth effect. In this case in Finding Nemo, it's associated with some effect from 30-50Hz, if I recall correctly. And, as I said, it kinda games the system for its extension rating, but those are the rules and we'll stick with them to make sure this ranking system remains a true apples-to-apples comparison tool, or at least the best maxmercy's come up with yet. When comparing movies, it's important to take all of this stuff into account. That's why I said Finding Nemo's actually a 2 Star, 23Hz extension film in practice, when compared to other movies that have consistent content below 20Hz, and no humped Average RMS (red trace) response.
  21. nube
    Gravity (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 4 Stars (111.87dB composite) Extension - 3 Stars (18Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.28dB) Execution - 5 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: I think I may be a little spoiled when it comes to movies with bass, because I didn't think this one's mix was anything special. However, it won both Academy Awards for Sound Mixing and Sound Editing, so somebody must have loved it! This movie uses a lot of 20-26Hz rumble that creates a room shuddering effect, but not a whole lot else really worth mentioning, and looking at the measurements, it has the steepest filter I've ever seen at 20Hz. While there are other bass moments, I didn't think they were particularly well-designed - I felt like a whole lot of ELF could be used in place or in conjunction with that 20Hz stuff and, for a space movie that you might think would have perfectly quiet scenes, it didn't pull off impressive dynamics like it could/should. I think what is there is used appropriately, even fairly artfully with some of the surround work that combines well with the interesting CGI cinematography, but in the context of this thread it didn't knock my socks off. While the movie was good, it wasn't great, nor was the mix. PvA:
  22. nube
    Thor 2: The Dark World (7.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 4 Stars (111.07dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (10Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.41dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.5 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: This one is an upgrade over the first one, with better extension, dynamics, and about the same overall level. I think the effects had noticeably more extension than in the first, but only sometimes. If you compare the PvAs, you'll see that Thor has more between 20-30Hz than Thor 2, and I think that makes it feel like a much more powerful overall presentation. After viewing some true bass monsters in the last few months, this one is no slouch, but also didn't leave me feeling too wow'd. It's solid, but missing some in that critical range that gives it the impact for which a little extra from 10-20Hz, by itself, can't really compensate. PvA:
  23. nube
    Finding Nemo (7.1 TrueHD) Level - 4 Stars (111.04dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.38dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.5 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: This is an oldie but a goodie. Really stellar work on the sound design that makes it the perfect complement to the fantastic animation and fun plot. The mixing is generally good, and the only clipping I heard was in the famous Darla Tapping scene, which was probably intentional. My only complaint about this movie is that we (myself included) tend to think of it more nostalgically than it deserves. It was one of those mythical movies with bass for a few years, but look at the graph: it's terribly humped and peaks significantly at 32Hz. While it's technically a 5 Stars movie for extension, the -10dB point is actually 23Hz if we disregard the 1 very short transient effect that goes from DC to 1.5Hz for a brief moment and isn't even noticed during viewing. Finding Nemo really games the system for that 5 Stars extension rating, but them's the rules. I like the flick a lot, but would have to deduct at least 1 star, and maybe two, from the execution rating due to the fact that it's actually a 2 Star extension movie (tho not technically), and that it's a very humped graph. Otherwise, a fantastic movie with very immersive sound, plot and visuals. PvA:
  24. nube
    Evil Dead (5.1 DTS-HD MA) Level - 3 Stars (109.63dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (7Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.59dB) Execution - 4 Stars (by poll) Overall - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Buy (by poll) Notes: PvA:
  25. nube
    I thought it was engaging and entertaining After that, it really really sped through plot points that deserved much more attention, leaving the last 45min or so feeling rushed and a little confusing, even if you have no prior knowledge of the book. I feel like Harrison Ford is old, tired, and wimpy looking. It's something about his combination of droopy, sad-looking eyebrows and his stroked out, uneven mouth that doesn't do it for me. I can't take him seriously, at all. The mix is good, but not great. There isn't the weighty, meaty feeling of lots of sub-20Hz content that makes All Is Lost and other recent ELF (<30Hz) champs so good. Although it does have some unfiltered ELF content, it mostly feels like a blockbuster action movie crafted to perfectly exemplify the loudness wars of recent years. Again, it's good but not great. The hardcore folks who run their subs with huge house curves, or +eleventy billion hot, will love it, while the more subdued sub dudes will find this mix less balanced than many of the others in the 4.75-5 Star range.
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