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nube

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  1. nube
    After a marathon day getting SpecLab to work, with lots of help from JSS (thanks!), finally a decent graph of Olympus Has Fallen's Washington Monument scene: That's purely digital, with no sound card involved. Lots of loud 1-20hz content, then that big WHAM going to DC at the end. Craziness.
  2. nube
    Ricci: Triangle has been graphed over at AVS in this post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts/8490#post_23397680 I've tried three or four times to make it through that movie and have always fallen asleep. I dunno what it is about it...it's supposed to be a good movie, too. Olympus Has Fallen contains a lot of good scenes, and definitely one amazing scene involving the Washington Monument. That scene lasts for 21 seconds and is really, really hot. I didn't hear anything ground breaking in the sound design, but it is a good scene nonetheless. Reminds me of the subway crash scene in Skyfall, except this one seems to have more of everything.
  3. nube
    John, I figured you must be making wavs of the sound mixes. That makes sense. I can't say I have the cash to buy some software to create wav files that sum all the channels of a sound mix, but is there some free way to do it? I'd gladly start pumping out graphs, if so. As to that Art of Flight 1-2hz stuff, and examples of it in other movies, who would the sound designers and mixers be catering to by placing that stuff in seemingly odd places where there are no higher frequency effects that correspond? Essentially nobody can reproduce that stuff. That brings me to a question about the measuring methodology. I see a pretty consistent slope down to 2 or 3hz in all the PvA graphs, but then many jump straight up to 1hz or DC. Intuitively, I find it hard to believe that this stuff, which will be largely filtered out by DC blocking caps in everyone's equipment, is worth judging as part of the sound mix, especially if it's a rare blip that has no corresponding higher fundamental content. From 1 to 2hz is a whole octave, but who can reproduce it? Can even rotary subs do so, when the signal chain for everyone limits or essentially removes those signals? Should it, thus, be considered as part of the movie's bass content on which to judge? In the example of Art of Flight, it sure feels like it artificially inflates the movie's score when, otherwise, its extension would only go to 12hz. While it likely wouldn't change the score much, the Batman: Under the Red Hood graph is even more egregious looking. Doesn't that strike you as being a little bit silly? The idea of removing anything on the track from consideration is a slippery slope, but those hockey stick graphs from DC to 2hz don't seem an accurate depiction of the movie's reproducible content.
  4. nube
    With regards to yes men and bosses who hate to hear no, I absolutely agree, John. Nolan still hasn't even been nominated for an Oscar as a director. He's directed some good movies (I really liked TDK and Inception), but he hasn't received top critical acclaim yet.
  5. nube
    Not only does TDKR sound mix suck, it really sucked imo. I also tend to see micromanagement as a bad thing, and perhaps it's the cause of the shitty mix. TDKR cost $250,000,000 to produce. in a $250,000,000 company, there's a reason why CEO's don't oversee the day-to-day operations of mail room clerks or the slaughterhouse butchers - the CEO has no expertise. There's a reason why the President doesn't oversee individual offices (local, state, or federal) in a bureaucratic administration or department - the Prez don't know shit about what they be doin. Hell, would you want them to? Absolutely not. Nolan isn't even that great of a director; what makes anyone think he's even an adequate sound mixer?
  6. nube
    I wonder why this clipping is receiving a lot less attention than that in Tron:Legacy and Immortals? Congrats on the Wiffle Ball tourney win!
  7. nube
    James, thanks for the SL graphs. Pretty much confirms what I was hearing. Are you still working on going through the list of movies that don't have graphs & caps for the databass of movies being built here? John, I know this is kinda a large request, but, when you have time, could you describe in detail how you removed all rolloff in your measurements, so that we might attempt to do the same? FOH, agree across the board with your assertions on audibility and tactile response adding to the experience. Good stuff, as always. Another movie that had this type of content, but is not in my library, is The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. As noted on the original AVS MWB thread, it's during "Two Guys Strapped to Pillars, Chap 6 (0:22:58)." Here's the graph for posterity's sake:
  8. nube
    MK: looking really good! Thanks for all your work. I replayed Skyfall just for the subway train crashing scene, and tickled the clip lights at -10MV on that one big burst you've been mentioning, JSS. This is likely louder than I will ever be playing anything by about 10 clicks, so I'm not terribly worried, but that scene is the real deal.
  9. nube
    Couple of things, MK. First, thank you very much for carrying the torch on graphing. Have you checked your XO? On your graphs, it looks like you're running with 80hz XO, but the spread goes all the way up to 120hz. There is almost nothing above 80hz (and sometimes, oddly, 60hz) in your graphs, except for the f2 and sometimes f3 of the highest amplitude effects. It makes me think there must be a sharp rolloff present at that frequency, consistent with a crossover. What channels do your graphs represent? Just LFE? Or, is bass redirection happening and they represent a summation of all channels? Lastly, this is a great service to the community that will have lasting implications and value. To that end, I have a minor request - could you label each graph with chapter and timestamp, and title the overall post with the particular source you're working with? That would help for cataloging, updating each movie's screencap post, and for archival's sake. Muchos gracias, señor!
  10. nube
    I re-watched The Day After Tomorrow. It's still a rental in my mind. However, from the very start, it's chocked full of bass. Some of it is superfluous, but lots of it is used to good effect. I gave it a 5 for execution. It's not like it's The Man With The Iron Fist or something.
  11. nube
    The Hobbit is a fine example of my gratitude to the guys who "get it early" and post about it online. It helped me avoid wasting time and/or money to find out firsthand that the film has an utter lack of LFE. I, too, am waiting for Marc to chime in on why the mix was so clearly neutered. I find it hard to imagine that effects with 20hz and lower content were completely removed from the mix, or were never created to begin with. It's shocking, especially so given the exceptional mixes on the original LOTR trilogy.
  12. nube
    Helping out a little bit, Dave, this is how you get images to work here: Get to the full post editor by clicking "More reply options" at the bottom. When in the full editor, click the image button just under the text color button, put the full URL of the image (minus the IMG tags), and bam, you're done. Yep, it's not ideal, but it works pretty well, and direct link to the images should be just as easily accessible to you as the IMG code tags via Photobucket. Here are your images. P.S. Finally got the tops on my subs. Pics on AVS. They turned out pretty nice. Will ping you soon regarding odd results from the measurements w/ tops.
  13. nube
    JSS, you're a scholar and a gentleman. As for Pulse, I think the execution is great, but the movie is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E. Strongly recommend to never even rent it. Just download Jindrak's demo Blu-ray and watch the server room scene. It's kinda funny how much has changed in the six years since that movie came out. What was once considered a "sub killer" is not nearly so hardcore. It's like a small width (17-21hz) sine sweep up and down, repeated for something like 72 seconds. Not too many similar scenes to compare it to. The schoolroom scene from Dredd is the closest comparison I can think of, though its deeper and not quite as hot.
  14. nube
    You're absolutely right. That lower level thing is what I was sorta getting at in my post, but I went and reviewed the rules for the extension category and I now understand why it gets the rating it gets. This just shows that SpecLab caps are even more important! Coupling the score and extension rating with screen captures will help people in times like this. I really wish I could produce them. Perhaps someday... Thanks, as always!
  15. nube
    I thought I remembered seeing charts that showed it having solid content down to the single digits? Well, maybe not super hot content, but definite content! Here are some from AVS: OklahomaWolf's graph More of OklahomaWolf's graphs and a link to his entire post about the movie (lots more graphs): I feel like the bass on this is a certain 5 star, from its release date until the end of eternity. Too bad the movie is TERRIBLE and cheesy beyond belief. It reminds me of old 70s/80s animation (like the animated Lord of the Rings), and the script/plot are atrocious.
  16. nube
    I completely agree with you, Dave, and I'll go even one further. Buy the whole trilogy. 1) It's cheap on bluray nowadays. 2) The first one, while not being worthy of much mention in this thread, was revolutionary in several ways. 2a) Consider that it came out on Easter Weekend, 1999. 1999, folks. 2b) If you think about the weird Judeo-Christian references, with Neo being sorta like Jesus, and Trinity, the Easter release makes even more sense. 2c) Taking the Foucault & Zizek approachs that all things are constructions of our minds, and that our minds' images of self are socially-constructed, we begin to see this movie's depth. So, yeah, get the whole trilogy. Thanks for all to all, especially JSS and Dave - you guys are spectacular!
  17. nube
    I'm shocked and awed to see FOTP getting 5 stars! Look at that ENORMOUS hump in avg. level around 32hz. I didn't realize it had content down in the ULF range - prolly because I haven't watched it yet with the sealed setup. Great to know, though. Huge level and great dynamics as measured! What are some of the other demo-worthy scenes besides the big plane crash? As to the clowns over at AVS, well, boys will be boys. Don't let them kill your enthusiasm, Dave. What you guys are doing here is a monumental effort, and a labor of love that has real merit to the community. JPC is a jerk, and his whole MO is to try to get under your skin by being a contrarian. He probably will continue, but I hope it won't have any bearing on this project - and, at least they haven't come over here en masse. JSS - glad you decided to keep the 1,1 settings for the graphs. I think that makes the most sense, and it requires no rework. And, in the future if there's some question about films' short transient content, perhaps they can be re-run with 4,0.25 settings or something if there's a question of or an indication that they were getting shortchanged.
  18. nube
    I told HuskerOmaha that he'd enjoy TDKR, but not to run the subs hot - since he enjoys the ported sound, he'll love the bloated effects centered right in the wheelhouse of his buddy's big ported subs. But, in all seriousness, I thought the entire soundtrack for TDKR was poorly done. My special lady friend and I watched the BR and found just everything about the mix to be bad - the LFE effects were often bloated and overwhelming in the audible range, there are several places where there's obvious clipping that was noticeable at -25MV, and the entire mix felt like it had been wrung through the meat grinder, especially (and, I assume, intentionally) Bane's dialog which is essentially a voiceover. I don't know if maybe my system isn't dialed in enough to enjoy a mix like this, or it's just a poor mix, but overall the movie was not enjoyable. The plot was thin, the aspect ratio changes were unnecessary, and we ended up shutting it down with about 40min left. A very low quality continuation of the franchise, and completely agree that it was FAR too long at 165 minutes. I'm failing to see how it got such high ratings on IMDb and RottenTomatoes. Recommendation: do not buy.
  19. nube
    Inspiring project, guys. I enjoy the mostly objective scoring of each movie, especially the methodology. The only real thing I have to add is that I think this should become a feature of the DataBass site, and be integrated into the site for posterity's sake. I figure it could be formatted much like Josh's measurements and systems pages. It's more work to update a thread than it is to upload and manage a single page for each movie's measurements and ratings. Plus, with the data you're getting on the levels, JSS, a quick comparison could be made just like the measurements of drivers/systems. I can imagine this would drive a LOT of traffic to the site, though perhaps that's not a good thing (see also: AVS MWB "debates"). As to the bin size and FFT time, perhaps the best of all worlds is to score & graph based on the existing settings (1,1) and then give the opportunity to add points to the subjective rating with different SL settings (say: 4,0.25) to prop up those soundtracks that get shortchanged on the existing ones. That feels sorta icky to me, though, for a variety of reasons. The first is that I don't think the best bass movies have a lot of transients. Restated, I think we don't feel/hear transients as palpably as we do the sustained effects and, subjectively, the effects most associated with the top guns are sustained. The second is that adding to the subjective rating based on objective data feels unscientific, though I guess I see a bit of that going on in the subjective ratings category already. Third, if you were to add to the subjective rating with (4,0.25) results, would you also be able to subtract from others that look less good with these settings? There's more, but I am not sure there's an acceptable compromise here. I feel like a couple of trial runs on movies you feel have been shortchanged, along with your scoring rubric for the (4,0.25) settings, might be necessary to end the debate. However, that's a lot of extra time and effort. Lastly, a comment about the scores so far. TIH is propped up throughout this as being the closest thing to MWB perfection after WOTW. However, when looking at the actual scoring, it appears that 9 is essentially as good, objectively. It missed the levels and dynamics thresholds for 5star by a mere .1 in each category. Just a minor point of contention, but objectively speaking, is TIH better than 9? Edit: I guess, due to the objective ratings thresholds, 9 actually missed those two categories' 5star ratings by .2 each. Not sure that matters to the point I was making, but there it is.
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