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EndersShadow last won the day on October 2 2015

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About EndersShadow

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  1. Small yet Mighty. The tale of the 12's

    Chapter 2: The Organ Donor I now faced a dilemma. Each Sonotube contained 2 subs. My other nearfield sub had 4 drivers. I was going to have trouble level matching my rear subs. Deciding to use 4 drivers, I now needed a new design for this back sub. But it needed to be the "right" design first time around. Putting 2 Sonotubes behind my recliner was out of the question. Building a dual opposed box presented layout problems, and resulted in very low WAF. A downward firing fake "hope chest" would be too long for the space. Dual opposed Up/Down also had no WAF. Front/Back dual opposed would likely shake my surrounds and any pictures off the wall. I could go with 2 front firing, 2 downfiring, but that meant really tall legs, which likely wouldn't work. I was stuck. I looked at any sub build I could find, hoping for inspiration. I lost myself in Infinite Baffle, Push/Pull, and all manner of unique layouts. I saw a guitar speaker with 4 front firing 10's. It was ugly as sin, but it wasn't that big. Light shone down from heaven. This was it. 4 drivers front firing, stacked in 2 rows of 2 each, butted up against the wall. It was basically a compact version of my nearfield sub. Whatever I did, it needed high WAF. I don’t have woodworking skills, and good quality wood can get pricey. So I started looking for a pretty "shell" to build my sub inside. I decided to commit a AUDIOPHILE SIN and take a vintage piece of audio equipment and convert it into a sub. With much shame, I looked at antique radios, consoles and all manner of things. Then it happened. I saw an ad for something the seller called a "Reverb" box. I had no idea what it was but it looked pretty, and had 4 10" drivers inside of it and a make/model number of Hammond PR something. Down the Google rabbit hole I went. I finally locked in on "The One". A Hammond PR-40 Tone cabinet. The Hammond PR-40 is meant to connect to a Hammond Organ. It has 2 15's and 2 12's in a 37 ½” high, 31 ½” wide, and 18” deep form factor. Its "just right". Tall enough to put stuff on, and more a rectangle than square. It also isn't much deeper than a Sonotube would have been. I scoured the web for the "right" PR-40. Finding units in Chicago, and Peoria IL, I messaged a local friend to see if he would want to buy any of the parts out of these for the shop he runs. They are tube amp powered after all, and use "ok" vintage drivers. He said he'd be willing to pay about 50 bucks for the parts if they were all there. That put both units at a very good cost, but there would be travel time and gas involved. Do-able, but would require a harder sell than I wanted to do at that time. Life got in the way, and time passed. Being a horrible person [emoji14] (see backstory), I had contacted both sellers for more pictures, so I had their email addresses, however I never actually bought either unit. Finally ready to revisit and move on a unit, I messaged my friend to see if he still would buy the parts out of them, and he surprises me. "Sorry Dan, not interested….." My heart sank. "Because I picked one up last week. You interested in the cabinet?" My breath caught in my chest, I messaged back "When can I see it?" "I'm eating a (local Mexican place). How about after?" "Done." I meet him at his storage unit, and there she is. A PRISTINE PR-40 in gorgeous walnut, the finish I needed to match our existing darker mahogany/espresso furniture. It was all still in one piece, tube amps and all. Forgive me Father for I have sinned.... For 25 bucks, I took the cabinet, and he took the internals. It came home with me yesterday. It cleaned it up very well, and I'm now starting to move onto the build I've dubbed the "ORGAN DONOR" [emoji14]. I will be posting a TON of pictures later tonight (after I go to confessional ;):D), but suffice it to say, this unit is put together REMARKABLY WELL, and it's all Modular. The top came off with 4 screws, the front grill is attached with screws, making my job cutting pieces out extremely easy. One thing I didn't know but is ICING on the cake, is that the grill fabric uses individual strands of wire in it. You cant see it, but its there. Why do I care? Well I've got 3 dogs, a cat, and 2 kids. So it should significantly help deter them from poking drivers, and the grill fabric can handle some poking without needing replaced. The "only" flaw is that the top grill fabric has a tear, however my friend has a tub of similar older grill fabric that I can use, and he thinks he's got a perfect match for the front grill fabric. Some pictures. First set of drivers. I haven’t yet taken one of all of them together. Here is the Hammon PR-20 When I first laid eyes on her. After some cleanup Some other pictures of the unit. Even the top had a driver in it. The grill came off with 4 screws and cleaned up beautiful 3/4th used throughout. Very good construction. There is a very nice offset for the drivers. Need to do some thinking here. The area I need to think about from the front. Top needs a small amount of work. Just look at that detail in the grill cloth! Here are some rough ideas of what I’m planning (subject to change and updating at all times). I'm basically building a box inside whats there. The sides, top/bottom will be out of 1/2. The front and rear will be out of 3/4. The drivers will NOT have a double baffle. I plan to cutout "most" of the existing front baffle, and use the remaining outline as a "spacer" so its kinda like I have a double baffle. This will ensure the drivers have MORE than enough breathing room. The "ONLY" thing I am thinking is how easy/possible it will be to remove the 12's if I need to get acces to them. I may space them closer together, or perhaps install the front baffle in two pieces, with the cut going horizontal down the middle. That would let me unscrew, pull it forward and rotate it back and then get to the drivers.... Any thoughts appreciated
  2. Small yet Mighty. The tale of the 12's

    Foreword: I'm a guy who likes to go into detail. The devil and the beauty is in the details, small and large. The backstory in my mind is always important as it sets the stage for what's to come and to provide insight into why certain choices were made. This thread will, like all my others, be a slow burn. My builds are intentional. They progress slowly, after much internal angst and debate, complicated by my insane need to account for all variables, and over-complicate things :). Chapter 1: The Quest is born, and a Champion emerges from the forge! The Quest I fit in well here. I love BASS. I've been to a awesome theater in Chicago twice and each time I left wishing I could get 1/10th the sound hes getting. Then I made the mistake of visiting "The Savoy", where I confirmed the reality lived up to the hype. It didn’t help. On my bucket list is visiting Luke, and attending some of the other GTG's that happen out Iowa/MN way. All these guys have SPECTACULAR dedicated theaters. I dont. I console myself with the fact that we are in the top 1% of basshead crazy, but those guys I mentioned above…. They are the 1%, OF THE 1%. My wife is not a Basshead. If you look at the threads I've posted over the years, you will see I've thrown just about EVERY idea at the wall trying to emulate most of you guys. None stuck………. In late October of 2017, we visited my good friend in Iowa. He's a fellow bass nut, and we get along great. He was using 3 SVS cylinder subs with his JTR Triple 8's. While visiting my wife commented that she LIKED (or could tolerate more) the SVS cylinders. Wasting no time, I got her to agree to allow me to copy his layout, and keep the nearfield sub that is hidden behind our sectional. In return I had to sell my UM18 first, and self-fund the build. A deal was made. The QUEST HAD BEGUN! A CHAMPION IS FORGED I had acquired 2 backup Infinity's for my nearfield sub. I researched the SVS PC-12NSD to get its dimensions and port tuning. I then attempted to emulate it in WinISD using the Infinity 1260/1262. The Infinity modeled well in a 16" in diameter 32" tall Sonotube ported to about 19 Hz. Port velocity was in check, with decent SPL. The ports fit, barely, but it would work. . All that was left was to buy another driver. Unfortunately for me, I was BEYOND LATE to the Infinity party. The drivers were long since out of stock, so I had to find one on the interwebz. They showed up on eBay, but they were around 100 bucks or more after shipping. I decided to keep waiting. I started looking for other options and remembered the JBL CS1214. The ONLY issue was, after throwing it into WinISD, the drivers only modeled close in a SEALED box. SPL response was ALMOST identical with the JBL having more power handling. In a ported box the JBL looked HORRIBLE. It needed a box that was 2x the size of the one for the Infinity. So I pushed it aside and kept looking for Infinity drivers waiting for a bargain. All your Subz belong to us! It's now a week or two before Black Friday 2017. My UM18 had sold, and I was sitting on money waiting for the right Infinity to buy. I had my parts list ready to buy for the ported Sonotubes, but was waiting till I had my last sub in hand. Someone posted the JBL CX1200 was on sale for 45 bucks at BestBuy on Black Friday. The T/S parameters were identical to the CS1214. Knowing the CX1200 was the "updated" CS1214, I wondered what the CS1214 was going for now. A quick google search turned up the fact that Sonic Electronix had them on closeout for 25 DOLLARS….. INCLUDING SHIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Consulting WinISD showed that a dual opposed 1214 build would make things simpler, and not lose too much SPL wise. I could ignore worries about port chuffing, I could add a shelf filter to boost response. This became a very viable option. It helped that one CS1214 wasn't too much more than the cost of the ports for each build. And they were NEW! I am a horrible person :)[emoji33]:p. Ryan will openly tell you this. Owning that fact, I told no one but my closest friends the deal I'd found, wanting to keep it all to myself. Like Gollum with the one ring. Mine, my own…. My precioussssssss The deal I was getting started to consume me. I started with 6 drivers in my cart. This was the minimum I needed to finish 3 DO Sonotubes. The JBL's and Infinity's would work together, so no need to go overboard ...................……..But I got sub drunk. 6 became 8, so I'd have 2 extras. Consumed by greed, 8 became 12 (so I could replace the 1260's and be using all JBLs). My cart suddenly showed 12 items. Then I did the unthinkable. My finger of its own accord moved before my brain even registered. "Submit" Looking at my invoice, I felt dirty. I pictured the face of the stock boy readying my order, seeing what I'd bought, and then how little it had cost me. His face turning to a grimace seeing their shipping costs. After shipping, I doubt they made a dime I thought that was the end. I was wrong. A few days pass and I am still consumed by the need to buy more of these drivers. It was only compounded by my fear I didn't have enough extras. To the Internet! By now, word of the deal had spread and Sonic Electronix was sold out (I'd like to think because I bought them out [emoji3]). That left Amazon, where they were 65 bucks new, no longer a screaming deal. I monitored the site, and a day later two drivers showed in their "Amazon Warehouse Deals" (I think thats what its called). These were Amazon returns that still worked but had damage to the packaging, or the person just didn’t want them. 32 bucks a pop. I could stomach that. Ordered. They were mine. My total was now up to 14 subs [emoji33]. But the beast inside me was not yet appeased. I stumbled across a post from a buddy saying he had 2 drivers from testing, in factory boxes, he was selling. The post was stale, but I never saw any follow-up. I was going to be in Chicago for something else, and may as well add 2 more subs to my collection. A few weeks later the deal was done and I was on my way home with an additional 2. My bloodlust ended. With 16 drivers, there was no more room at the inn. I had already moved 8 of them to a friend's house for him to help me build the Sonotubes. That still left me with 8 at the house. It was time to start actually getting ready to build something [emoji33]. P.S. Here is a my floor plan showing sub locations.
  3. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    HOT DAMN.... GOODY!!!!!!!!!!!!
  4. Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

    This is me jealous of your access to a CNC router to build stuff..... . Looking good, looking forward to seeing graphs.
  5. (8) Sealed Incriminator Audio Judge 21" build

    Wish I had "Crowson money" myself for the same reason lol. I just cant afford as many as I'd need, and with my wife wanting a sectional soon I'd need even more lol...
  6. Luke's basic amplifier tests

    Yes, my concern was the sub 20hz Crown debate which you put to rest. Once I get things settled a bit my goal is to purchase a Balanced MiniDSP and play around with a low shelf filter to bring up the bottom end, so I needed to make sure the amp had "somewhat adequate" power below 20hz to accomplish my goal. With a single sealed 18 I get tons of bass, still not enough for my personally, but the point of this is that I want to try my best to even out the SPL of the bass given the Equal Loudness curve and I think the shelf filter will help with that a bit. When I add it, I will also evaluate just how much if any of the sub 10hz stuff I can actually feel with my large room and potentially then add a highpass to ensure I dont clip the amp with that content, given how much the wattage drops below that point, and by doing so potentially gain some ability to crank it above 10hz more.
  7. Luke's basic amplifier tests

    Luke, wanted to thank you for this thread. As a result of your testing I bought a secondhand XLS 2000 to drive my Ultimax 18 in a 4 cubic foot flatpack (which I bought after extensive research on this site and looking at the drivers available in my price range). First one is done. Springtime I will buy the second kit and another XLS2000 to drive it, and will have both Crowns on a dedicated 20amp circuit .
  8. Equipment for sale

    Thanks..... turned out that didn't happen, and may not ever happen, but I did get to play with the ported Chane sub, and MAN does that thing hammer....... I cant WAIT to get my hands on my 18" ultimax box in the next week or so.......
  9. Equipment for sale

    Hey Ricci... thought you might like to know I may soon be in possession of that Chane SB-113 box and use it for a dual Ultimax 18 build...... You don't happen to have written down what the actual internal cubic footage is of that box? I see it appears to have a 2" front baffle with the rest of the box being 1" thick. Dimensions are 22.5 Tall x 20 Wide x 20 Deep. I care because I just got the Denovo Audio Flatpack w UM18 kit, which measures 23 Tall x 20 wide x 20 deep and uses a 1.5" baffle and the rest of the box is .75" thick. My thinking is save some cash and buy just the enclosure (buddys re-using the driver in a diff box) and stick another Ultimax driver in it and have it match the box I have. But I'm not sure how much interior space there is once you account for the difference in box thickness and bracing....
  10. Luke's basic amplifier tests

    Looks like thats the amp I'm gonna try and snag here soon then. Get it for my current ported stuff and then start saving to go sealed in my room with a couple 18" subs and try to get more ULF.
  11. Luke's basic amplifier tests

    WOW, that XLS2500 is still a good performer down to 10hz it looks like...........
  12. How important is sub bass below 20 Hz??

    I have Buttkicker transducers and while they are good... They don't do well with the low frequency stuff. It starts to ping enough to be annoying. I'm somewhat waiting for a minidsp to use on it so I can play around with a subsinic filter around 7 - 10 HS and also apply a high pass around 40hz so I can JUST work on adding more to what my sub can't do. I heard about it before I bought it but I didn't have Crowson money so I bought it anyway. I've NOT heard the same of the Crowskn transducers.
  13. How important is sub bass below 20 Hz??

    An interesting read. I was ALMOST one of the participants of this but wasnt able to make that meet. I wont say I'm an expert at any of the subject matter but it was interesting to see what body parts respond to what frequencies.... http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/bass-the-physical-sensation-of-sound
  14. ZOD Audio M.A.U.L. Test Results and Discussion

    I'd guess they'd need to seal the car quite well or they might have windows bent off their hinges with that thing.... Put it in a Uhaul and see what she does!
  15. ZOD Audio M.A.U.L. Test Results and Discussion

    Man..... your going to force me to drive to down for a demo if you keep going at this rate..... Its only about 2 hours one way lol.... I was already tempted as crap when you posted those Chase subs for sale (which my buddy ended up buying)......