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EndersShadow last won the day on August 29 2019

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  1. Lol can’t do that (or I totally would lol). Was looking at a fridge sized area (84 W x 31 H x 26 D) broken into two ported boxes that replace my entertainment center (And my components would be broken into two new tower sections on either side).....
  2. Please god someone buy those 9601s...... The amount of WinISD sims I have for them in large ported low tuned boxes, not counting scheming to make a Skram or Skhorn fit in my 16x18 FAMILY ROOM HT are causing my head to hurt. And that’s ignoring determining what to sell to fund the purchase and getting them into the house without being murdered in my sleep by having them placed over my head in lieu of a pillow... Please someone take the temptation away lol...
  3. Looks like double the fun....... or do we have two different versions?
  4. Thanks @maxmercy, I will need to read up on that tonight and see whats up. If it helps me identify if I'm clipping I'm all for it. Like I said, I know I need to ensure my signal chain is setup appropriately so I'm getting all I can out of these drivers, while also ensuring I dont blow them. One update is that I made some small tweaks to things shown below Audio/Volume: Scale - 0-98* | Limit: 70 (previously 80) *My options for the scale are -79.5db -18db OR 0-98 (which is what I have mine at) Speakers/Crossovers: Front: 60hz (previously 80) Speakers/Bass: Subwoofer Mode: LFE | LFP for LFE: 80hz Speakers/Level: Subwoofer: +4.0 (previously -2.0) Audio/Subwoofer Level Adjust: OFF (previously +6.5db) Doubt this is going to change much, but haven't had time to measure anymore and wont for the forseeable future. PS all you folks have got me looking at alternative solutions as well such as employing some 21" drivers in my nearfield boxes and swapping out the 12" drivers slated for my DO Sonotubes (still a WIP) with some local FI Audio 15's lol.....
  5. Not sure this forum has the amount of traffic as others (like AVS), plus most guys here probably have their amp situation covered already..... I'd post them individually on AVS and you might get more traction there.
  6. No idea if they improved the monitoring features, just know they are there and can help you judge if your clipping the input. What I meant by that was when playing movies only the parts meant to be REALLY loud approached or hit the -0db point on the input graph. I didnt hit it on the output graph at all, although I noticed when I got close I was only at the third of 5 lights on the Crowns. In general on the MiniDSP input graph I was well below 0 with most stuff (like hovering around -10, -12). I'm fine if it hits 0db once in a while, but it wasnt steady in like the -2, -3, etc except again for the times that it should be. I also didnt repost last night, but I rewatched the first 45 minutes of Godzilla and it did the same thing. Most content was in the green/yellow area of the graph, with occasional super loud sections (like godzilla's fire breath, or footsteps) approaching between -3 or 0 on the graph. I also threw on some music (Lindsey Stirling Artemis, Tool Fear Inoculum and the signal was coasting through all of that with ease as well (though music content doesnt normally dig below say 25hz lol) Now I was likely clipping the first time I watched the movie even after reducing the boost (in the MiniDSP) because I had the subwoofer level at +6.5db on the Denon. I adjusted that setting in the Denon down 1.5 to just +5.0db prior to doing any testing/listening last night. That means that when watching the movie last night all parts that were approaching clipping (at the new setting of +5.0db) on the input graph likely were well past it initially at the old setting of +6.5. While it may be a chore, you are correct, the payout is worth the effort. One of the reason I am moving to 12 12's is to have a lot of cone area to hopefully allow me to play loud without having to stress.move the drivers tons (except for special occasions). I also am trying to be very conscious about not clipping because I want as clean a sound as I can get (understanding I'm already asking more from these drivers below 30hz than they'd really like to do). I am also not one to say I'm an expert at gain structure, but I want to make sure I get it right, again because I want to get the best sound I can out of what I have. If I had my druthers I'd build 2 really large ported LTT's and be done, but thats not a viable option for me. Two questions (sorry if they are remedial ones): When you say "decrease the output gain -3db"..... where? In the MiniDSP input gain? output gain? How would I know how much to bump up the volume on the amps to increase 3db? Run a sweep at the beginning, reduce the input, increase gain until the sweep with the changes matches the original one? I also dont know if I have 3db left on the amp to give lol, I think I'm maybe 4-5 clicks below max on my Crowns full volume, which is likely NOT going to be a 3db increase
  7. Ok. Ran threw some demo clips* and I’m at the ragged edge on the MinDSP input at 70 (which is above my normal listening volume of 50). Im not clipping except in rare really loud circumstances. Output seems fine as is. Just to be a bit safe I dialed down the subwoofer adjust from +6.5 to +5.0 so that should help white a bit. For now I think my gain structure is maximized outside potentially adding a high shelf filter that kicks in around 15hz to help reduce amp and driver strain since it seems they are close to out of gas there.... *Clips were: Intro to Godzilla King of the Monsters - Large footsteps Captain America Winter Soldier - HeliCarier launch Olympus has Falledn - C130 attack (when the monument falls I triggered the biggest red light event on my amp so far) The Polar Express - Train Arrival
  8. I agree with you both. That said I got the balanced 2 x 4 which I think has 4 VRMS in and out (still not a ton but better than the stock 2x4). I know the amp lights on my Crown XLS2000s aren’t hitting red so there’s that but I do plan to spend some time doing some real world content viewing (tomorrow while wife and oldest are at a JoJo Siwa concert lol) while looking at the input and output of the MiniDSP. The red lights on the Crown are indicators of the input signal correct? So if they aren’t red lighting 24/7 and normally are barely 1/2 way at least the AMP isn’t clipping (but clipping could still be occurring at the MiniDSP input or AVR output) correct? The knobs on the Crowns are simply the gain and they are 4-5 clicks below max. I lack the skills and tools to verify if clipping is happening inside the AVR itself lol...
  9. Yes I need to go back into the MiniDSP and sweep at 70 and look at the INPUT levels and output levels to make sure I’m not clipping. im fairly certain I’m not clipping the output (as I’d be red lighting the lights on the amp and I’m not), but I could very much be clipping the input. I think I tested that much earlier and determined I wasn’t both by looking at sweeps and also by monitoring it while playing real world content like the EOT intro, EndersGame clips and a few others know to contain lots of UKF/Bass content.... But I’m betting I did that at 50 not 70 as I had a hard limit set at 60 (so kids can’t crank it on accident), and increased that to 80 very recently. You are also right as what I really want to do is figure out where my limit is on this configuration so I can be under or at it. If I remove the boosts I will lose out a massive portion of the low end I have now. I’ve attached a sweep before XT32 and any REW filters are installed (of the subs just as they sit. You will notice they run out of gas fast stock without the low shelf filter and the other boost is just there so they’re isn’t a dip when that low shelf filter starts. *The darker line is the response. The green line is the EQd response and you can ignore the red circle, it was added to show the first section I was EQing lol... I’m not there yet but working towards it lol. I’ve got some buddy’s in Chicago that I’m going to bribe/beg/pay to come down once all my subs are done and help me dial them in but since I am still not totally setup I’m flying solo right now.
  10. Channel 4 is the subwoofer channel. Here is the default channel mapping per MiniDSP Here is a typical mapping of HDMI channel numbers: Channel 1: Front Left Channel 2: Front Right Channel 3: Center Channel 4: Subwoofer Channel 5: Surround Left Channel 6: Surround Right Channel 7: Surround Back Left Channel 8: Surround Back Right https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/206-umik-1-asio4all#channels
  11. Lets see if I can answer this is any sort of smart way lol. I think I know what your getting at, but I'm going to give you all the data points on everything anyway just to cover my bases. Here are the settings in my Denon X4100 Audio/Volume: Scale - 0-98* | Limit: 80 *My options for the scale are -79.5db -18db OR 0-98 (which is what I have mine at) Speakers/Crossovers: Front: 80hz Speakers/Bass: Subwoofer Mode: LFE | LFP for LFE: 80hz Speakers/Level: Subwoofer: -2.0 Audio/Subwoofer Level Adjust: +6.5db Here are the REW settings: Each REW sweeps was run with those settings (for good or bad), the ONLY diff was the volume change from 50 (out of 98) to 70 (out of 98)
  12. Normal listening is about 50 on the volume knob (so the lower sweep). 70 on then volume was a “Home alone with no kids/wife watching a good movie loud”. You are correct about the room gain, not getting much, but with a massive open floor plan with only one corner that’s expected. I did figure the amps were out of gas which I kinda expected with 2 bridged Crown XLS2000s on a single 20amp dedicated circuit. And I’m adding two more amps to it so we will see how much worse it gets with those added. I don’t know if I can dial the boost back without making the response worse (rolloff starting in the early 30hz range), so we will see... I do know that even with my CRAZY boost earlier as long as the volume was kept around 50 it was safe for use, and had low distortion, same with the reduced PEQ at 50 on the volume knob. I will try to post some of those distortion graphs for comparison later, but my computer is old and wont run more than one program at the same time and I've got to get my kido up for school :). Got a second, ok here we go. Distortion on the 50 volume sweep with reduced PEQ SPL Difference between the 50 and 70 volume And for giggles here is the distortion on my massively boosted PEQ sweeps (also at 50 on volume) Here is what that boosted PEQ looks like in the MiniDSP So looking at that as long as I keep the volume in check a bit more I can run with larger boosts, which was what I was planning on. I'm buying a MiniDSP wireless adapter so I can load in and adjust things on the fly easier, which means I can dial up the boost when doing my normal thing, and then dial it back when its just me and I can go NUTS.....
  13. Got a few minutes to redo my REW w the reduced PEQ filters. I measured at 50 volume and 70 for giggles. Lots more rolloff below 20hz compared to the boosted one but for now I’m ok with that. Once the sonotubes come in perhaps room gain will help. Original v Reduced PEQ 50 v 70 on the volume. On this the rolloff below 20hz seems much more pronounced. Not sure why this is. I can tell you that things shake all over the house with the 70 volume lol... And lastly here is a THD plot from my 70 volume measurements. I think @Ricci asked for something like this at one point in this thread. Hopefully it shows what you want Ricci, if not, let me know and I can repost.
  14. Enjoy! and he sounds like my kinda guy lol...
  15. Cant take the arrays off your hands, but I'd love to see some pictures (and I do know some audio nuts in the PA area)......
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