chrapladm

Cinema electronic setup options

17 posts in this topic

Hello to all. I was going to email a few members here and ask them some questions but felt it better to just post a new thread. So my situation is that I am wanting to buy a portable preamp setup for a rack on a budget.

 

I looked at using: 

 

QSC 10D ->>Amp setup

All Hpass, EQ and low passing done within 10D.

 

Oppo203 ->>Motu Ultralite Mk3->>Amp setup

All Hpass, EQ and low passing done within Motu

 

Denon500BD ->>Motu Ultralite Mk3->> Amp setup

All Hpass, EQ and low passing done within Motu

Denon BD500

 

HTPC w/JRiver ->>Behringer ADA8200->> Amp setup

All Hpass, EQ and low passing done within JRiver

Berry ADA

 

Now these are my options i have come up with. Not sure what other options are out there or what works better. I have the Motu Ultralite Mk3 already. The HTPC sounded like the best option but I have negatives about all of them. Oppo 203 and 10D are close to the same price. BUT I would then need a BR player for the 10D. And I would have to see how to connect the BR player to the 10D.

 

The other dilemma is that I am looking at buying two setups. My Denon AVR1509 I guess blew a channel. I have been wanting to upgrade that AVR for a while but it was doing just fine. I would go and buy a newer AVR but kind of want to get away from AVR's. SO I looked at just buying a cheap interface from Behringer perhaps. Then using JRiver for all EQ setups. I would need to buy a few amps but thats fine. I looked at buying a few different 4/8 channel amps from Sanway. Eventually I am looking at getting all QSC PLD amps. But that will have to wait until I have the funds. SO for now I am looking at Sanway amps.

 

SO for outdoor cinema setup I just want streaming capabilities like bluetooth or even just a hard drive to play from. Oppo does have an HDMI input so I could use a chromecast for audio streaming. BUT not sure what others had stated about using it as a preamp also. I like the 10D but would it be needed. DO I also need a different processor for formatting different coding?DTSX and so on.

 

Denon player does not have any inputs so I can only play discs. They do make a media player that has bluetooth and they also have a bluetooth receiver that has L/R outputs. If using the Denon player with the Motu this could be an option for streaming music from my phone. The receiver is just a small accessory. The Denon player is also cheaper than the Oppo.

 

SO I apologise if this is confusing. I am trying to write down what I need to buy and stop buying things that are not needed. Also have had my children running in and out and wife chatting with me.

 

Cubi and ADA8200 might be a great setup for in my living room and the 4k tv. No inputs but I guess I can live with that. I would then be able to build an all active setup if I wanted to. And I do want to. :D

 

4k is not needed for outdoors. So Denon player is an option with the Motu but wanted others opinions. I dont usually have extravagant setups. Usually just an AVR to speakers.

 

Thanks to anyone that can shed some light or suggestions.

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Building an outdoor cinema sounds like a lot of fun.

 

It looks like the QSC 10D accepts analog inputs, so you would need a blu-ray player to do all the audio decoding and to output 7.1 to analog.  And then you still wouldn't have streaming capability.

 

I don't think the Motu Ultralight will do crossovers on its own.  Since you'll need a PC to do this, you might as well opt for HTPC.

 

Other than that?  You can go with a standard HDMI capable AVR or pre-pro with 7.1 pre-outs, BD player and another outboard processor like a few DCXS.  You'd want to do bass management in the AVR.

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No Streaming is ok. When I am outdoors I will just use the player or I can use the Denon receiver for the 10D input. The Motu can be a EQ/DSP when in stand alone mixer. You need to save these settings when you have a computer attached. Then the Motu can be used like a DCX.

 

The AVR option is nice but I would still need  EQ/DSP. It COULD be handled by the Motu but I am trying to keep the budget down. Denon BR player might be the cheapest option. Would be Denon BR player to Motu. WOuld be good for the simple setup outdoors until I could afford some nicer equipment such as the 10D or 100.

 

This setup will be used in my garage for a while. Its a simple 18ft x 16ft x 9.5ft vaulted ceiling. Once I am able to feel confident with the equipment in their and setting up the electronics I will then move to my childrens school gymnasium. Hopefully by then I can have something like the 10D or other.

 

As I have said in the past I have fun ideas and limited funds. IN a year or so I aim to have a large blow up screen for outdoor park like events. This is all just for fun. I love movies and love the way audio can recreate an environment. Unfortunately I am the only one around here that I know feels like this.

 

I have looked at using a mixer also after the DVD player but most of them are limited on EQ/DSP. My motu is the best option for that and its not being used. So I will have to look more into that option for now. I will probably order the Blue tooth receiver from Denon that way I can send music to my Motu for music. Then I will buy the DVD player from Denon if thats the best option per budget. Seems to be in my head.

 

I still need to buy some more supplies for my projects so this wont be a quick project. I have a 21 that should be here in about 2 weeks. I will order the Denon receiver and that should end my budget there.

 

Then:

Build JBL 3way clones.(AM7315)

Build Skhorn with Duratex paint

Buy Denon DVD player

Buy Sanway 4 or 8 channel amp (2004)

 

 

That would be good enough until I finish some other projects. I still need to put up the walls in my shed/garage. Then when thats done I can move back to the cinema project. I am doing seasonal work right now so lucky for me I will be working 6 days a week from middle March until June 1. Thats good for funds. But then I am back to zero funds as that job ends. 

 

So not everything will be bought and finished but I would like to have a plan for the best setup I can get. It may just take a year to buy and finish. I have been waiting YEARS already so I can at least see the end.

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I dont have amps yet that can do the Xo/EQ. I was looking at getting all QSC PLD amplifiers in the future though. Not immediately but later on this year I was looking at buying a pair of them. So that is an option also.

 

In the beginning I will most likely have a four channel sanway amp to get me by. For the sub I will just use my Crest pro 7200. I am trying to avoid Sanway products but 300 dollars roughly is hard to pass for four channels.

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I have the Denon DN500BD, it is a solid piece of equipment.  It can do simple LCRS to Sub crossovers and has 7.1 analog outputs (un-balanced).  I use mine with the DN-500AV and use the 500AV's balanced outputs to go to a Balanced MiniDSP 10x10 for LCRS and Sub and also split the subwoofer signal to an MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN for the Crowsons.  All balanced connections, no hum, very little noise when gain structure setup correctly.

 

I would use the same setup - Denon 500BD and 500AV with MiniDSP 10x10 (or in-Amp DSP) for an outdoor rig.  They are all rack-mountable so you can put them in flight cases for easy storage, and are not heavy.  Use a few DCX2496s if you don't like the MiniDSP stuff.

 

JSS

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Big thanks Max. The 500 is not available anymore but the 700AV is. I had been looking at the 700 model also with its balanced outputs. I have never been a fan of the MiniDSP with its popping and hissing sounds. BUT if it works then I am not against it. I did look at the DCX also. So that IS an option if needed. Just a matter of finding a budget that is not too high and sticking with it.

 

DN700AV is about $1000 so it is close to the same price as the 10D. BUT it is very nice.

 

No hum is also a major plus. I do plan on using sensitive speakers. Eventually a DIY SH of my own and some other less extravagant speakers. In the beginning I will have some nonDSP amps. Maybe next year I can afford to buy all PLD amps or even the DPA lineup. But for the extra money for the DPA I think PLD will work just fine for me. Two amps will cover the seven channels and a SP amp to cover the subs.

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I have a Motu 16A, and I'm pretty sure the DSP capability is very limited.  I think its "highpass filter" is just the standard high pass used for mic preamps to remove unwanted bass from dialog.

 

I like Ricci's idea of getting amps with integrated DSP.

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The QSC PLD amplifier range all have DSP built in. And the Motu when it is only a mixer does have XO funtions and EQ. I have played with it many times. Delay, PEQ, Hpass/Lpass Ect. When it is used with a PC it has a LOT more functions. In saying all that I will start off with buying a DVD player(DN500BD) and blue tooth accessory.

 

I am not a huge fan of the quality of bluetooth to my ears. I would rather stream wifi but will just have to do what I can in the beginning. There is the option of a USB drive I could use for music but that will limit me to the music I own. I tend to stream a LOT of music when listening and dont own the files. I can work around that but dont like listening to great quality tracks and then going to a crap quality one.

 

Motu might be used indoors and connected to my PC which is already connected to the 4k tv. Will have to look at Jriver and its DSP/volume options. 

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I like MaxMercy's suggestion of the Denon's. I didn't know that the had a newer 700 series. I'll have to check that out.

 

I take it you aren't interested in using the 4 channel Inuke with dsp? It would save some money.

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The NU4 6000 is about 500 delivered to my house. Not sure on the DSP version because it is not on their website. Locally it is about 815 not delivered. So while I am not a huge fan of Behringer amps I think I might look into buying one, possibly. I dont think there are many other alternatives for a similar price. 

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That 700AV looks nice.  The HDMI and USB on the front are real time-savers for doing measurements with HDMI and Umik.  Looks like they added some amps, Network streaming  and Bluetooth capability to the DN500AV.  

 

The DN-500BD is well built.  Almost like it was designed to be used under a bar in a busy club.

 

I agree the iNuke DSP amps are economical if you want a lightweight, decent power, and a DSP in one unit.  Price them against multiple DCXs and non-DSP amps, though.  With enough channels, it could a be close race.  

 

JSS

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So the NU4 without DSP plus the DCX is about 800 together for me. I cant remember if the DCX can do four mono channels. I thought it could. The DCX LE has only 2 inputs and is 60 dollars cheaper. I dont think I can use that. If I can use the DCX as 4 mono channels then the two amps with two DCX's will cost about 1600.

 

The QSC PLD4.2 delivered to my door is about 1600 each brand new. I have found PLD 4.3's delivered for less money but I will just compare to brand new and not random deals or refurbished/B stock amps.

 

I wont be able to afford everything at once anyways. So I may buy a few things to just hold me off. 

 

The Denon DN700AV+500BD is about 2300aud for me. Roughly. I will get another amp of some sort that I can afford. Probably Behringer but will keep looking. Will use my Motu for now and at least enjoy 2.1. Looking at pricing on the Solaris website and other websites if I can just save for a bit longer I could have the amps I wanted. They are more expensive but I feel a great buy. I wont b buying PS amps but something to be happy for a long time.

 

So if I got a Sanway four channel amp that would cost me about 330 delivered roughly. Its about 200watts per channel. Would be fine for my L/R. Then I can afford the Blue Tooth Denon Accessory along with the materials needed to complete my builds. (L/R/Skhorn)But I could get a Inuke 1000DSP to use for less money or a 3000DSP for about 40 more.

 

They are all quite loud. I can change the fans on the Inuke for quiet ones though. Hmmm

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Maxmercy where did you buy your Denon Pro gear?

 

I looked at retailers from my home state(Indiana) and I dont care for any of them. PLUS none of them so far actually list that they sell Denon products. I could always just order from a place like B&H or other online company.

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That 700AV looks nice.  The HDMI and USB on the front are real time-savers for doing measurements with HDMI and Umik.  Looks like they added some amps, Network streaming  and Bluetooth capability to the DN500AV.  

 

 

Agreed. I like it. That and the DN-500 are so close to what I want. I was hoping they would add Atmos to the 500 replacement.

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500AV from Markertek Broadcast Supply.  Got the 500BD from Amazon.  I have always had good service from B&H, and the Amazon return policy is awesome.

 

Ricci, I think Denon are waiting for all the bugs to get worked out from the overhead channel systems and some type of standardization to take place before they purchase licenses and put them into a 'pro' piece of equipment.  Before overhead channels, I'd like 5 channels across the front like the old SDDS system (in a typical HT, it would be three behind the screen, and a pair just outside it).

 

Saw that the 700AV has an LFE trim control right on the remote....

 

The Denons just need illuminated remotes.  Does anyone have an illuminated, good universal remote suggestion?

 

JSS

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Dolby Atmos supports left and right center speaker positions but only with objects. No channel content will ever go to those positions.

 

I think those are really only necessary if you have a really wide viewing angle to the screen. Could help smooth pans but for better utility and general expansiveness, I'd opt for wides and LCR over 5ch screen layout.

 

SDDS 5ch screen layout was all inside the screen. Anything outside the screen would be a surround speaker. By today's standards, with Atmos, these speaker locations are the wide/front surround speaker. Same at home.

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