Ricci
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Posts posted by Ricci
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Offsetting puck type feet makes me worry about stability due to the size of most puck type feet. Would require a large offset .
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That wont work John. Bottom to bottom and top to top stacking. Traditional bottom to top stacking is the one that will not be used. I can do it with the offset skids like shown in the pics above but its not my favorite.
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It would be the top plate and the mag in the pics. Scott these would be inside of the outer case that you see in the pics.
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Figure I might as well throw this out there while I'm at it. Im not in love with the skids I have on there for stacking. Anyone have better suggestions for hardware/ feet for stacking?
Im looking to be able to stack bottom to bottom and top to top. That's the 24x32 sides.
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21sw152-4 should be a very good match. 8ohm a little less smooth but should be fine. If you give me a couple days I should have the prints up. I swear!
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Well I added some info and screenshots at least.
I don't have real cabs or test data yet but it will happen this summer. Based on the results from my last couple of designs I've got a high confidence of what these are going to behave like.
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The 21NLW9601 models really well in this cab. Looking forward to your thoughts on the cab and the 3 drivers.
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You need a bit of clearance when putting on the final side panel. If those were cut at exactly the wood thickness you would never be able to get the final side to seat correctly.
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Sorry guys I meant to make this topic hidden. Kinda jumped the gun a bit. Thought I would have the files ready but Ice been too busy to wrap them up the last couple of days. Hoping to get to it before the week is out.
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This is the long delayed single driver sub similar in design to the Skhorn. Overall the performance goals and criteria were quite similar. Big surprise there! The Skhorn works so well at what it does that I didn't feel the need to reinvent the sub for this one. This is primarily designed as a professional sound reinforcement or live sound style subwoofer. Big output and clean sound in very big spaces, while covering the typical bass heavy range of music, has always been the primary mission for this sub. Same as it was with the Othorn and Skhorn. It can and I'm sure WILL be employed for other types of situations, but it's a festival or club sub that just happens to be flexible and neutral enough to work in a variety of scenarios.
The main differences between the Skram and the Skhorn are as follows.
Optimize it more for the cost effective 21's like the 21DS115 and Lavoce SAN214.50 rather than the Ipal drivers like the Skhorn. The Ipal's still work of course, but I relaxed things a bit for the drivers that are a little easier to afford and power.
Increased size: Originally I wanted to basically saw the Skhorn in half and slap a top panel on there with modded bracing. It would be a very compact 21" sub, which is great, but the driver would fire directly into an outer panel and even with bracing this is a lot of energy being beamed on axis into a large outside panel. I've never been a fan of high pressure loadings with big drivers that do this. I always want the direct on axis energy from the cone to act on internal panels that are going to keep this energy inside of the cabinet better. This required a rearrangement of the internals. I also added a bit of size while I was at it. I decided to stop at a size that was significantly smaller than the full Skhorn, but not as small as a true half. If this cab is too big or heavy you could always build the true half Skhorn, which would be 24x32x27.71.
Increased vent area and slightly increased vented chamber volume. This should help the noise, compression and output near the vent tuning.
Increased vent area and length means that the vent pipe resonance is lower in frequency than the Skhorn. I'm, expecting that the response will be less smooth above 150Hz, but that's the tradeoff made for bigger vents.
The Skram has 4 vents instead of 3 like on the Skhorn. I decided to add one more for even more tuning options. Tuning with all vents open is basically the same.
Being a single driver design, the Skram does not have the dual opposed drivers for mass induced vibration control like in the Skhorn.
Other than these changes I would expect that this design behaves and sounds very similar to the Skhorn. I'd expect that the two could be used together without issue. They are more alike than dissimilar.
Skram Dimensions: 24"x32"x36" (609.6mm x 812.8mm x 914.4mm)
Weight: Cab=115lbs or 52kg projected (Driver will add another 25 to 55lbs (11 to 25kg) depending on the driver.
Vent Tuning: All vents open = 29.5Hz / 3 vents open = 25.5Hz / 2 vents open = 20.5Hz / 1 vent open = 14.5Hz
Each vent is greater in area than a 6" pipe. All vents open is equivalent in area to 4x 6" ports.
All of the usual pro 21's should be a good match.
18Sound 21ID, 21NLW9601
B&C 21DS115, 21SW152, 21Ipal
RCF LF21N551 looks decent
Lavoce SAN214.50
Eminence NSW6021-6.
NOTE about the prints!
These are extremely detailed due to being designed in Solidworks and the plans from which my personal cabs would be built. The simplified layout drawing is really all that should be adhered to to build this sub. The bracing and hatch can be simplified to suite your own ideas or the tools available to build the cabs. Just make sure it is solid! Any or all of the hardware can be deleted or substituted or modified to suite your needs. Even outer dimensions can be adjusted within reason. Think of the plans as a chassis guideline that can be modified to taste. You don't have to put all of those holes in your braces or use the handles, a half inch roundover on the cab edges, add a cutout for a plate amp on the hatch, etc...
DXF files...
Back Brace 2 ^Skram_TI x 2.DXF
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26 minutes ago, Mjhfowler said:
True thanks for getting back to me mate. What program are you using to open the dxf?
This is the copy I have does this work for you?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PPxezBeijeT5587K50ummdr6r_vIfstz/view?usp=drivesdk
Solidworks or E-Drawings Pro.
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On 1/19/2019 at 4:12 PM, Father Francis said:
So am getting ready to build some OThorns , to go under some Danley SH96 , how many them ,would keep up per side ? this is for the guys who have built these or do you all just use them at home ?
I see I missed this question. How many TH-18's does DSL recommend? That'd be a good place to start. I'd think 2 per side would be a good start. 4 per side would be a whole lot more fun though.
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9 hours ago, Mjhfowler said:
Heya guys I’m having trouble getting these plans to open properly. Autocad showing them with no sheets or layers. Other cad software returning errors and saying the file is empty etc.
SK horn .dxf file opened fine when I tried it as comparison.
Anyone else had similar issues?
I don't know what the problem is. I just opened every file linked above without issue.
Perhaps try to contact someone who has already downloaded and built from the plans. Maybe their file will work for you.
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I hear that Mike...Way more ambition than time eh? I know that story.
I second the caution to watch the SC input level. It's easy to smoke one with an amp. I'm using an old Crest 8002 with a blown channel that it isn't worth it to fix. Does just fine with the 1 good channel sitting on a test bench though.
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Sine sweep SPL value is not a peak figure. None of the ones shown here are peak. Crest factor is 3dB.
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Hmm. Man I think its splitting hairs. Should be fine. Your talking a couple hertz tuning difference if that. The vented chamber is relatively forgiving of small changes. Id say roll with it.
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Simple mod...how much longer did you make them?
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6 hours ago, radulescu_paul_mircea said:
I managed to explode the final stage of one 44m10 playing my SKhorn XL version using Ipal driver squire fast , but the 20K is way more stable in 2 ohms. The problem was bus pumping from the very high back EMF.
I would suggest you to used 4 ohm drivers and use each sub on each channel instead of bridging it . This way you will use all the DSP capability of the amp and you can make more configurations like cardio and end-fire. The difference in stability is not big, a bridged class D amp will be a tad more stable at high reactive loads , but the back EMF will discharge in the endstage instead of the capacitors so for the same output power , more heat will be generated.
Ouch blown amp stages...I've had similar happen with unbridged smps amps. This is partly why I avoid running them like this for heavy duty bass now. It seems to shorten the life span quite a bit and induce more failures.
Most of the pro amps I've used seem to be fine on bass duty, half bridged until down around 25 to 30Hz with normal duty cycle music. Lower impedance loads / higher current requirements/ higher sustained power and especially very deep bass frequencies below 25Hz start to cause issues. With usual music primarily above 30Hz you may never notice. I go straight to bridged for subs anymore to avoid the possibility under demanding circumstances. YMMV.
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I did some quick modeling and it looks like the tuning would come in at about 31.5 or 32Hz from the original 28 or 29Hz tune. A little more than I had guessed, but the response doesn't change much. It looks good. I'd say this modification would be barely noticeable if both were side by side and you have a little extra vent area. Go for it.
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If the extra 60mm is added to the vents only it would raise the tuning a bit. I'm not sure how much exactly but I don't think it would be more than a couple of hertz at most. Probably not a big deal.
I would mainly use the rms limiter and leave the xmax and voltage limiter set out much further. The drivers mentioned here typically will not actually damage themselves mechanically without severe abuse and they audibly let you know first. Also with the standard tuning and a high pass below 25Hz it will take a ton of voltage to induce over excursion. Peak voltages I'd likewise leave set way out. The cab will take it for short term peaks. The main concern is long term heating up of the coils so the rms limiter should be the biggest focus.
The Linea's look good but I don't have any experience with them yet. Seems like they are getting popular. Looks like that would be a good choice to run 4 Skhorns (or more) per amp. With 4 ohm drivers you can wire 2 channels bridged for a rated 10Kw into a pair of Skhorns.
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I would recommend using an amplifier for large high power woofers. However you don't need to run it as hard as you might think. 1 to 3 volts is plenty. The main thing is load invariance, linear response and freedom from clipping. If you cannot get an amp try to use a good quality headphone output these usually have a better result driving low impedance loads and a bit more current capability than a line level output. Things like the DATS can work in a pinch but the drive level is only a few milli-volts. It's not enough for accurate repeatable measurements on the types of drivers I usually test. IMHO.
B&C 21-IPAL Driver and Measurements Discussion
in Bass Gear
Posted
Ok so about the ticking noise...I have a plethora of 21's in house from 4 different mfgs. Its not just the Ipals. One of the Lavoce 21's exhibits it and the other does not. And one of the Eminence 21's exhibits it and the other doesn't. It isnt audible in the sealed cab unless I put my ear right up to it. I dont think this is related to the spider gluing. It is present even with less than a few mm excursion. I almost wonder if it is the shorting action of the inductance rings even though that seems really far fetched but it does sound like a small spark jumping a gap. Really odd that Ive seen the same thing from 3 different major mfg's from 2 different continents on drivers with similar motor designs. That many unglued spiders out of such a small sample of drivers from multiple big name mfgs just doesn't seem possible.