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Captain America - The Winter Soldier (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.62dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (6Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.52dB)

Execution - 5 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.75 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

Notes:  Lots of effects down to 12Hz, with some very strong 20Hz content.  Two effects even dig to 5Hz at high amplitude - see if you can find them!  Most of the big stuff is around 30Hz, but it's nice to see the goodies aren't completely filtered out.  Solid movie, and very good overall audio - you can tell this one was designed and mixed by Skywalker Sounds.

PvA:

Pompeii was measured here and, while it has some very solid content at 30Hz and below, I don't think there was any scene that would be fitting for this thread.

I re-watched this yesterday morning at anywhere between -6 and Reference to get my pre-work bass hit

 

Has some great depth, loads deeper than just about any other music track I've heard, bar bass test tracks!

I just finally got Project X measured, so it'll be posted in the relatively near future.

Yeah, that's it.  It's available at YesAsia for cheaper, but I wouldn't recommend buying it just yet.

As for The Railway Man, it's not scary, even with the huge dynamics score.  Pretty ho-hum movie.  Not the style that most people here like, and I'd say it's only marginally worth watching.

The Railway Man (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 2 Stars (105.37dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (38.62dB!!!)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Holy shit, look at that dynamics score - highest recorded yet!!!  Not really a bass movie, but when it does have bass, it legitimately reaches into the single digits.

PvA:

Crank: High Voltage (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (111.02dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.17dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.5 Stars

Recommendation - Tossup (by poll)

Notes:  Lots of full-bandwidth effects, with many effects having more below 20Hz than above.  One odd section of long, REALLY LOUD noise below 1Hz.

PvA:

Crank (7.1 PCM)

Level        - 3 Stars (108.08dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.7dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  A single effect earns this movie its 1Hz rating.  Otherwise, it's a 20Hz extension movie.

PvA:

The Terror Live (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.74dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.11dB)

Execution - 5 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  This is from the Korean Region A disc, Korean language track.  Almost all of the bass effects are completely full-bandwidth, with zero filtering, and the big stuff on screen is appropriately weighty below 20Hz in almost all cases.

PvA:

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (5.1 PCM)

Level        - 3 Stars (108.74dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.83dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Unusual sound design.  That legendary scene with very high level < 2Hz content notwithstanding, there's also a scene with very strong 10Hz content, and one effect that's completely full bandwidth.

PvA:

Cat Run 2 (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.69dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (33.44dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Legit content down to 4Hz through a lot of the movie.  Also, great dynamics for such a loud mix.  Don't watch it, though, as the ratings for this and the first one in the series are atrociously bad.

PvA:

Legends of Oz: Dorothy's Return (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 3 Stars (107.9dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (9.5Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (27.24dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Some very hot content from 15-35Hz, with other notable effects down to just below 10Hz.

PvA:

The Double (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 2 Stars (107.1dB composite)
Extension - 3 Stars (15.5Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (33.39dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 3.25 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  From the beginning, there's a lot of low level content below 10Hz, and some from 10-20Hz.  Seems like a couple of low shelf filters were applied.  Not much of a bass movie, but excellent dynamics.

PvA:

Thanks for your observations.  Yes, almost everything I stated above is speculative and/or subjective.  I am also interested to see if I can support or reject any of these statements with good data.  I am a programmer and am capable of writing the necessary data analysis tools myself.  The main barrier to me doing this is decoding the audio bitstream to PCM from the discs, which may not be possible on my Linux systems.  Anything I have to use Windows to do makes me move a lot slower. 

 

As for systematically detecting clipping, that's a harder proposition.  Harder is proving (or disproving) my hypothesis that a lot of clipping gets introduced in the "made for home" remix process.  It would be very interesting to see data that compares the "made for home" and theatrical mixes on those Blu-rays that offer a choice.  Until I can get at the data, I can at least do A/B comparisons to try to figure out what changed.

 

I currently own "The Fifth Element" and "Oz: The Great and Powerful", both of which claim to provide both mix types.  I really should A/B those mixes some time.  WIth TFE, I thought the theatrical mix sounded great at "0" with an X-curve EQ target curve.  With OTGAP, I watched with the "near-field" mix, and thought "-10" was plenty, even though the "correct" playback level may be higher.  I also thought some of the more dynamic sounds seemed a tad harsh and slightly exaggerated.  It will be interesting to listen to the alternate mixes for both of these titles.  I'm particularly curious about the theatrical track to  OTGAP, given that I played the near field mix back at such a low level.

Hey, I guess what I was after is what data would you use, specifically, and how would it be obtained/manipulated?  Like, would you mind expressing it in a formula?

I find myself very sensitive to clipping, "harsh" sounds, and very low bass, but I can't really quantify it in words.  Looking at the waveforms tells us the truth of whether it's clipped/compressed/limited.  Besides that, it's hard to prove other than it just sounds bad (which sometimes is by design).  I was hoping you had some qualitative tips on how you recognize clipping, especially if it's just one note/syllable in an entire mix.

There's a whole lot of speculation here, but very little to no data on which to base your conclusions.  I'd love to see an undertaking that explores these assertions.    Before embarking on that, though, it would certainly help me if you could explain the exact data and methodology with which you'd test the hypotheses, because I know I would certainly appreciate the technical specifications of how to accomplish this.  Without that spec, it's hard to gauge the efficacy of a proposal...especially such a solution to a problem that I'm not sure exists.  Beyond that, an elegant solution, not merely any solution, would be the tits!    I want to be wowed!

Also, without looking at the waveforms, how can you accurately assess clipping when it's not frequent or egregious?  I'd love some tips.    Are you 100% certain it's not your system, signal chain, or room?  Speaking of, can you give the specifics and maybe some pics/measurements so we can see what sort of equipment you're working with?  I love reading about people's very capable systems!

Bassment:  I dunno, man.  Design and build a new rating system and they will come.    Personally, I don't see any advantage to that, as it sounds like you're just trying to create a new ratings system that caters to your preferences.

SME:  While different, your solution sounds similar to how maxmercy originally accomplished measurements, by measuring the area under the curve, but they were not apples-to-apples.  Read about it at the bottom of the very first post in this thread.  Perhaps maxmercy can chime in, but I don't think that filtering actually reduces clipping or prevents it.  Most movies are significantly below clipping when looking at their levels and waveforms.

The current methodology here creates an apples-to-apples comparison that first determined a maximum level of the disc (128dB), and compares everything against that, so that we have a real ranking: repeatable and comparable.  The dynamics score simply takes the difference from the overall peak and total RMS scores of the disc.  I feel like this, coupled with the PvA graphs, is more than enough to predict when a movie will be loud.  I don't feel like the ELCs really help anything, especially since their measurements have been so inconsistent over the years.

I'll take a look at the recording you mentioned in the near future, and post back with my findings.  Thanks! 

Nicke:  I haven't, mostly because it's not on BR and I'm not sure Netflix has an appropriately-mixed version of the DVD.

The big difference you'll see between these two is that the new Captain America has very strong content at 30Hz that is about 6dB louder than anything in the TASM2 mix.  Otherwise, they're very similar in measurements.

However, I agree that TASM2 doesn't feel like it has a ton of strong bass content, but it's still very obviously a good, not great, bass movie

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (5.1 DTS-MA HD)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.11dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.7dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.5 Stars

Recommendation - Buy (by poll)

Notes:  They righted the wrongs from the first one's mix, at least to some degree.  This one has strong 12Hz stuff in the beginning, and a fair amount of unfiltered content overall, while maintaining good levels and dynamics.  The movie itself, however, is a big miss compared to the first one.

PvA:

Happy Feet (5.1 Dolby Digital EX)

Level        - 3 Stars (107.58dB composite)
Extension - 4 Stars (14Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (30.24dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 3.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  This one was clipped all to hell, which was odd given the content.  Cute for kids, but not much for adults.

PvA:

Jarhead 2 (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 2 Stars (106.36dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (31.67dB)

Execution - 3 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 3.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  The frequent noise below 1Hz is higher amplitude than anything else on the disc, and it's not even close.  Otherwise, a few effects dig down to 6Hz, but overall not a tremendous bass movie, despite the dynamics.  Really about the same as the first one, tbh.

PvA:

Toy Story of Terror (7.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 1 Star (99.51dB composite)
Extension - 1 Star (25.1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (29.08dB)

Execution - 1 Star (by poll)

Overall     - 2 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  This short has almost no bass effects.  Clearly not the production value of their feature films.  I didn't even find it very entertaining, and I generally like this franchise, and animation in general.

PvA:

Only Lovers Left Alive (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 1 Star (103.2dB composite)
Extension - 1 Star (43Hz)
Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.16dB)

Execution - 1 Star (by poll)

Overall     - 1.75 Stars

Recommendation - Tossup

Notes:  Completely lacking bass outside of the score, it couldn't even garner good dynamics.  Overall a disappointing mix for a so-called horror movie, but the movie itself is actually not bad at all.

PvA:

I don't have any time stamps, but any chance of doing an oldie like Dark City?  I also have to agree that 9 is 5 stars for sound all the way.

Sorry Mike, I totally missed this before, but it's been added to the queue.  Thanks for the suggestion, and keep 'em coming! 

Yep, that looks like the one.  Unless you have kids, I'd prolly recommend renting it. 

Valkyrie (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.86dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (32.47dB)

Execution - 5 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.75 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Interesting sound design - it has LOTS of scenes with effects below 20Hz.  This movie is very loud sounding because of the dynamics, and it's not a bad movie, either.

PvA:

Ninja Assassin (5.1 DTS-HD MA)

Level        - 4 Stars (110.25dB composite)
Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.9dB)

Execution - 4 Stars (by poll)

Overall     - 4.5 Stars

Recommendation - Rent (by poll)

Notes:  Lots of junk noise below 1Hz, but some legit content between there and 20Hz.  Big bass in this one, but not many other reasons to watch it.

PvA: