maxmercy

Wow, that looks like a track AFTER BEQ.   Hope it doesn't clip everywhere....should have an incredible Dynamics score.

Thanks MrEdge!

JSS

BH6 was inconsistent, with some effects having very little impact, and others great impact and heft.  It's as if there were many sound designers, and some used highpass or shelves when creating the effects, and others didn't.

JSS

That is a significant change....have you listened to the new track?

JSS

Wow....EVERY effect must have 20-30Hz.....quite the impressive 70 to 30Hz slope...

Think it clips?

JSS

9 hours ago, Infrasonic said:

Minor adjustments to levels to surrounds and dialog (~1dB deviation from theatrical) are about as offensive as it gets.

Audyssey's Dynamic EQ may do more that that...

Best news I have heard in a while; possibly confirmed by my experience with Star Wars:The Last Jedi, where I guessed the level of playback on an opening night showing within 0.5 'units' on the Dolby Box (confirmed by the theater's general manager).   Good to know the theatrical/home mixes aren't substantially different at Technicolor (still where FilmMixer is at?).

JSS

I thought WW was well done but prob could use a little BEQ, but not much.  It was very similar to Man of Steel  in the LFE channel, IIRC.  I'll look at it when I get a chance.

Loved the film.  Closest the DC Universe has come to approaching Marvel quality (Batman Begins and The Dark Knight excepted).  Reminded me a lot of Thor, with the 'fish out of water' plotline.

JSS

What window did you use? 

It seems that to get a 'real' picture of what is happening with a PvA for this type of correction, we would need a reference 'line' placed on the avg graph or tilt the average graph counter-clockwise to see deviations from 'level' (a downward-sloping target curve).

Main thing I see here are the broad 'boosts' centered around 1kHz and 8kHz.

WaveShop is probably a better app to use for these Spectrums, and very fast, too. 

Interested to see the 'after', and if you can, do a pre-post image shifting the colors for the post.

JSS

SME,

Have you looked at the entire WW soundtrack's PvA full range (20-20) and seen what your changes would look like?  What FFT settings did you choose if you did this?

JSS

Pinned.

JSS

Mr Edge,

Thanks for the Blade Runner PvA!  It looks like the rolloff is similar to the 5.1 version on the prior home release.

JSS

The Last Jedi - I agree with both reviews above re: plot and pacing, with some impressive plot holes/inconsistencies thrown in for convenient 'timing' of scenes.  It sounds like lots of focus groups and executive (above director level) decisions may have hampered the end product, if I had to guess....or maybe not?

I would not want to be a director on an upcoming SW film, especially the 'Episode' films.  I would guess directors would get a little more creative leeway with the 'Anthology' series of films.

Making a film that "can't fail" often means you can get a definitively mediocre product in the process.

But the sound....I was fortunate.  I had a terrific sounding system at the theater I saw it in.  It was played back at '6' on the Dolby Box, or 82dBC, and it sounded clean, cleaner than anything I have heard in a few years, and not fatiguing or shrill.  Neither my wife nor I EVER reached for the Etymotics we always have on hand when going to the cinema after the hearing damage I am certain I sustained at 'Skyfall' at the local LieMAX (around 3 mos after it was announced LieMAX was using Audyssey XT32 to calibrate their theaters).   

The fact that neither of us felt any fatigue at 82dBC usually means a decently clean presentation.  The projection side of things had significant errors in color alignment, and the theater promised to look into it.  We'll see if they fixed it when I take my son to see the film.

The theater was hampered by the typical <30Hz subwoofer rolloff, and was only in 5.1, but I heard some definitive high-20Hz content, particularly in the score.

Like others above said, the great 'moments' in the film almost made up for the strange pacing and awkward one-liners, (but with no Han Solo onscreen, SOMEONE had to step up!), and I had more to say about the good points than the bad points of the film on the drive home.

Saw it on opening night.  At least 12 spontaneous applause events, with 3-4 full blown cheers during the film (both a rarity nowadays, IME).  I'm apparently not the only one who thought the 'moments' were good.

Star Wars has often been called a space opera.  Maybe all those strange pacing decisions were the recitatives we had to put up with to get to the arias in the film.....

JSS

Some of the thumbnails noted in prior posts that do not lead to full-size PvAs will hopefully have their images available again soon.  

JSS

BB and TDK were not nearly as bad as the ‘epiphany’ Nolan had with TDKR and nearly every film of his since...while I can appreciate the ‘wall of sound’ effect, it is best used sparingly for even greater effect.

JSS

PS - If the biggest warp effect in ST:Into Deafness was unclipped (It was!), you KNOW good sound can be unclipped as well.  While I completely understand the ‘flat tops’ for effect, I cannot abide slamming into 0dBFS with reckless abandon and literally clipping away information.  Put the flat tops at -0.1dB and watch your signal levels to avoid losing information.  Or use analog compression or soft limiting.

But it has been said before: “What can I say?  Director’s Intent is Director’s Intent.”

Agreed, one need not look past Frankenstein's Army to 'experience' that.  One of my favorite mixes PvA is not that awesome.  The movie Drive.

SME,  I have yet to audition GOTG2 BEQ, but will when I have a chance to listen at spirited levels.  I have some cleanup and backlog to do on this thread and this forum, bear with me.

JSS

I thought the film had good midbass impact (when it was used).  Here's a prelim BEQ Pre-Post:

I'll see if it is any good this week...

JSS

Valerian & the City of a Thousand Planets  (ATMOS)

Level: 3 Stars (110.06dB composite)

Extension: 3 Stars (18Hz)

Dynamics: 5 Stars (32.13dB!)

Execution: TBD

Overall: TBD

Notes:  Decent film, may need a BEQ.  Will update this post with a clipping analysis when completed.

Measuring it this week.  Will post results.  Not a bad film.

JSS

What did it look like on a log scale?

JSS

Leave the 30Hz notch in and let me know what you think with/without the notch corrected.

JSS

12 hours ago, 3ll3d00d said:

The reason I suggested using MSO is because you have complete control over the parameter range for each filter and also complete control over how many filters, and what type, it can use. Combine this with smoothing of the response if necessary and I would have thought you'd end up with a smooth filter shape.

re headroom, is it the summed result that is the concern? 

that seems a long time to wait for processing, what are you using for that?

Yes, the summed result can sometimes be higher than a worst case scenario, when played back at Equivalent Reference.  I check for it anytime I do a BEQ.

I have not used MSO, but it sounds promising, at least for a good first guess.

My long processing times used to be MUCH longer until one of the forum members here helped me out.   I am limited on speed mainly by the current hard drive and memory.  I am not using a new machine by any means, but it works well, and can run some of the old cmd line programs I need to do what I do with the tracks.  I also do a lot in Audacity, and have had to modify several of the plugins to suit my purposes.  I'm sure there are better tools out there.

When I am doing BEQ, I generally run a trial solution while I do something else, then check the result later, so I really don't spend a lot of time waiting.

JSS

Final pre-post level-matched:

JSS

The headroom check reveals that the BEQ version of the film played back at +7dBRef (Equivalent dialogue reference), no instantaneous signal peak is higher than 125.4dB.  Largest 'extended' peak (125ms) is 118.6dB.

Comparison PvA coming later.

JSS

I still have to do a headroom sanity check on the overall film, but I will. 

Only 4-5 films I have re-done have ended up with any >128dB effects when played back at 85dBRef (+7dB on the MV). 

rant/

Most films are VERY tolerant of BEQ, which has led me to believe that it is possible to have unclipped, dynamic, full-bandwidth presentations if someone takes the time to create a film soundtrack properly the first time.  We unfortunately have few examples of this.

So much of the problem is that  most exhibitors will not playback films at Reference; too many complaints of "it's too loud".  This sometimes forces mixers to mix films under reference, knowing their films will not be played back at Ref Level, esp for dialogue driven films. 

To get loudness under reference level, you have to compress/clip loud passages to keep dialogue loud and clear enough if you mix significantly under Ref.  What happens if a film mixed under reference is played back AT reference level?  LOUD/COMPRESSED/CLIPPED Hell. 

It can be even worse for HT 'home mixes' depending on the playback system and Ref Level it is mixed at.  Was it optimized for soundbar, TV speaker,s, HTIB, or decent HT setup playback?  

And let us not forget about 'Director's Intent'.  I'm talking to you, Chris Nolan, ever since 'The Dark Knight' (though I hold out hope for 'Dunkirk'), and you, Joseph Kosinski (who admitted to messing with 'Tron:Legacy's BD mix, and the clipped hell it was in every channel save for LFE).

But I also have to thank Joseph Kosinski.  Without Tron:Legacy's obvious clipping, I would have never tried to find out how to look for clipping in a soundtrack.

I am just glad we get some decent mixes every now and then.  Too many variables at play, and not many (if any) standards followed, with so many various powerful interests at play.

/rant

JSS 

15 hours ago, Ricci said:

John how much time does it take you to go through the process above?

Anywhere from 4-12 hours per film, with about 1/2 that time just waiting for processing to happen as I think about how to do the next trial solution.  Pacific Rim took me several days.  That filter was steep and hard to correct.

It does get easier, though.  I have done around 50 or so films and 30 or so DTS/THX/Dolby trailers.

JSS

Finally, LFE pre-post:

About 7 iterations to get this one right, as headroom was at a premium.  Turns out my first guess was closest to my final solution.  As I expected, <10Hz is highpassed away, only able to be brought back by ever increasing negative gains before BEQ.

Tentative LFE Solution:

Gain -7dB

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

Low Shelf 18Hz Q=0.707 +5.25dB

SME, if you can input that into your incredible DSP, I'd be interested in what you think of the solution.

JSS