Kvalsvoll

The DTS is rolled off closer to 40hz on all channels, to retrieve anything useful from this is very difficult, and the TrueHD/Atmos sounds reasonable out-of-the-box. There are other differences as well - missing 2 rear surround channels, overall surround is perhaps missing some of the atmos effects (The 7.1 has overhead sounds), dynamic range may be different. I suspect the clipping will not be very noticeable, the waveforms are no worse than M&C, just to put it in the right context. And we all liked M&C, didn't we? I have to screen the whole movie to really know for sure how it sounds, looking forward to that.

Bølgen (The Wave) - Norwegian disaster movie about a giant wave causing massive destruction. Opportunity to make some REAL bass here, I would say.. Comes with 2 sound tracks, DTS-HD which is kind on the ears but also with no bass, and TrueHD Atmos which has bass and clipping. I have not watched it yet, only a few scenes to do the bass-eq. Original lfe TrueHD/Atmos: (See the main ULF content thread for waveform pictures.) A relatively gentle lift below 30Hz to raise the 15-20Hz a bit, and recover what was lost in the 15Hz filtering: Now, this is more like it. When the wave comes, it should not be a subtle shake in the floor and some nice midbass punch, this event is supposed to shake the whole house, violently. I may have overdone a little, but I think it would be worse the other way - originally the wave feels like splashing in a bathtub, and that is clearly much worse than having a slightly too destructive and violent disaster wave sound experience that resembles what you see on the screen. Bass-EQ spectrum plots Two soundtracks and the general status of the movie content providers As mentioned, the film comes with two soundtracks. There is no information on the cover or anywhere else that I could find about those soundtracks, and it defaults to the DTS with no bass. While watching the movie you can of course switch between the tracks to determine which one you prefer, but when you sit down to watch the movie, you don't want to experiment with soundtracks and setting. The information for those soundtracks must be presented beforehand, so that the audience can decide BEFORE starting the movie which soundtrack is most suitable. This is fault #1 - lack of information for soundtracks. Then there is the general status for technical knowledge on sound reproduction among content providers. Here, the DTS track can be suspected to be meant for commercial cinemas - it is not too loud to be played at 0dB, and all bass below 30-40hz is simply gone. The Atmos track is very different, it is LOUDer, there is significant clipping in all LCR channels, and the bass is now quite good and reaches quite deep, though I suspect the level is reduced a bit below 30hz - not by much, only 1-2dB, and it is filtered below 15hz ("No one can hear that low, anyway.."). This is something that they would likely create by starting out with a reduced master volume level ("They don't listen that loud.."), and having a monitoring system more similar to a high-quality home set-up with some modest subwoofers. The need to push levels too far and cause severe distortion due to clipping comes from the lowered master volume setting - because it now sounds a litte too quiet in volume, they compensate by pushing levels upwards, and they probably can't hear the clipping distortion due to lack of resolution on the monitoring system. The filtering and reduced level in the low bass is due to limitation in the subwoofer system in use - they will experience more impact and better sound when removing content below the systems capacity both in level and low frequency extension. Once you have reached the limits of capacity, it will not be more impactful or powerful when turning it up any further. On a proper system this will of course not be the case, as there will be much more headroom available. Whether the Atmos is made like this for the home market, or there is actually also a theatrical similar to this one - louder, and with more proper bass - is something only the producers know. Fault #2 is not using decent sound reproduction equipment in the studios. If they had the overall sound quality, resolution, dynamics, wide frequency range, then the soundtrack would be much better and no bass-eq would be necessary. It would not be clipped with neutered low bass, and it is very likely that especially the low frequency sound effects would have been better, because they would be able to actually hear what they are working on. BassEQ BassEQ parameters for Shelf-filter: lfe: low-shelf 16hz 1.6 +6dB low-shelf 16hz 1.6 +6dB (x2.) high-shelf 36hz 1.4 +0.5dB Note: If you prefer a slightly smaller wave, just leave out one of the 16hz gains. Also, this filter is quite modest and you will be able to do it in any parametric DSP or JRiver. The clue is to apply a filter that rises frequencies below and around 20Hz, and the 6 or 12dB max boost will then occur at a much lower frequency, around 10Hz. The high-shelf is merely cosmetic to maintain mib-bass level when the corrected lfe is summed in bass management. Here the filter is applied to lfe, it will work just fine to apply the filter on the subwoofer output on a bass-managed system.

Bølgen (The Wave) - Norwegian disaster movie about a giant wave causing massive destruction. Opportunity to make some REAL bass here, I would say.. Comes with 2 sound tracks, DTS-HD which is kind on the ears but also with no bass, and TrueHD Atmos which has bass and clipping. I have not watched it yet, only a few scenes to do the bass-eq. Original lfe TrueHD/Atmos: Sum 7.1 TrueHD/Atmos: Waveforms: Clipping on C: I don't think it is as bad as it looks, and the bass is not bad either. Looking forward to watch it, especially since I have the bass-eq version, which is a totally different experience.

This is the REAL thing. Listen, feel and experience how much better and powerful and balanced the sound is, when you have full frequency range extension. If this shows the current trend, the future will bring many great movie experiences. If it isn't loud enough, just turn it up. From the few scenes I viewed it sounds pretty good, not too loud, no distorted mess, and the B.A.S.S....

Yes, this can seem like a lot of work to do to just watch a movie, and I have to admit I do not bass-eq every movie I watch, even if there could be a significant increase in experience due to the improved sound. What I was hoping for is more awareness, so that content providers eventually see the problem, and start making better products with more consistent and proper sound quality, because that is the real solution and bass-eq would become obsolete. I believe better sound would benefit the providers due to increased sales and interest in their products. To make that happen requires knowledge - producers will never know what is missing until they experience the difference.

Could be the sound design is like that, but it can also be that you now have room correction for the studio embedded in the soundtrack. And then the statement "you don't have what we have in our studios" makes sense - because I know for sure I do not have a high-q resonance at 31Hz that needs correction in the program material.

Great test, @Ricci. Mind that I have not read through everything here, but I noticed the results for the single channel Powersoft and your comments on bus pumping. So my comments here may be redundant. For bass duty it is necessary to either run a bridged output stage, or you need a power supply with regenerative capacity. Either will work fine. This is not an option, it is necessary. A different approach sometimes seen suggested is to run two channels on the same rails with opposing phased signal. If the load and the signal is the same for both channels, this will work like bridge mode. In a practical situation this is not a good approach; say you choose to turn off one sub, leaving the amp running on one channel only.. A pcm/"digital" amplifier with single output stage and no regenerative power supply will pump up the rail voltages when operated at low frequencies and high load. This will eventually blow the output stage if the amplifier does not shut down due to some kind of protection circuit. This is why it is necessary to test all bass-duty amplifiers at low frequencies. It may be good at say 40Hz, but when you put a 14Hz signal on, it can fail, even blow the output stage. The amplifier may be good for normal PA-use, >30-40hz, but it will fail when Tom Cruise is "Coming in hot". Another issue is that smps power supplies can have significantly lower output for low frequency loads. This is why many class-D amplifiers have reduced output at lower frequencies. This is, however, not as critical, nothing will blow, it is just a performance issue.

I have noticed this on several movies, example the TrueHD/Atmos track on Gravity, first 30min is filtered, the rest has more bandwidth.

Does not matter, because they all fall off at 50hz.

Exactly. The 7.1 sounds good to me, this is what they should have released in the first place, most people will not buy another later release just because the soundtrack is changed when they already have seen the film. . The first 29 mins is filtered with a steep cut-off on the 7.1, later scenes have a shelf filter. Some of the later scenes offer reference quality ulf, you just have to retreive it.

Well; since the sound design of the atmos 7.1 is different from the dts 5.1, it will not sound the same no matter what eq. @maxmercy has a very valid point with "careful what you wish for". Overall, the 7.1 sounds better, but the 5.1 has more impact in at least one scene. With the low freqs retrieved, there is a lot more low frequency content in the 7.1. The low frequencies can be brought back, but if different sound effects are mixed in with different level, that can never be changed, and I am fine with that. I suspect the overwhelming 20hz drone was never present in the theatrical. We know the dts 5.1 is a near-field re-mix they did on a mediocre system, as they presented an article on the web describing how they did this "improvement". The 7.1 is also a re-mix, but it is quite clear they did not do all the destructive changes that makes the 5.1 sound too loud and kind of strange on dialogue. My guess is that the 7.1 is more close to the theatrical, maybe they did not change much at all.

"..and I always have a choice." I wanted both - the good sound quality, and the low bass. Well, almost there, but the sound design is different, and some scenes actually have more low frequency extension than the dts 5.1.

Now this was something quite different. With the low freq in place, this excellent soundmix (Gravity) can be enjoyed to its best, and now we are talking. I would say the overall sound quality improves to a different league compared to the 5.1 dts. The harsh, loud yelling character of the voices are all gone, panning is perfectly smooth all around the room, it sounds a lot more natural and balanced. And this has nothing to do with atmos, other than what tools they used to create this, it is the processing of the sound they did in the studio.

Add another -4 to -6dB at 30hz, around -10 to -12dB at 20Hz. The 20hz drone-sound is strange, but I liked it like that, and the few effects on impacts and hits loose all the weight. Was it like this on the theatrical release? Maybe. Does not change the fact that the sound effects had more low frequency energy that was filtered somewhere in the process.

I can not agree with you in this, @maxmercy. If they want to sell and make people want to use money, they must provide something that actually makes a difference, something that people experience as worth paying for. On a "soundbar" or similar, the experience is really not good enough to make that difference, and they may be equally happy with watching the movie on the ipad. Two things I have noticed after demoing for various audiences: - They generally don't like it too LOUD. - The low bass - when done right - is something that many appreciate and understands very well, and this is usually something they have never experienced. Atmos is great, but it is not the ceiling speakers that makes it great, it is the improved presentation of the surrounding soundscape due to much better integration of the whole soundfield. In Gravity the atmos 7.1 sounds much better - part from the missing ¤&&¤%/%&//%/ - panning is better, it is more disconnected from the speakers, you get a completely immersing and seamless sound field, and this is noticeable even for sounds up front coming mostly from the LCR. All this is available with no ceiling speakers and no atmos decoding, because the 7.1 truehd contains everything rendered to the standard 7.1 configuration.

Gravity Atmos-release is filtered. I guess this is one of those days where you really have to question the meaning of what you are doing. What is the point in trying to make better sound for more people when the content-providers keep digging the hole deeper and deeper. It is not possible to develop a speaker system that makes great sound from bose-quality content. I have had it with these guys. There was a thread on a web-cast on avs recently, where they promoted the "near-field" mixes. I try to see it both ways, a little on the diplomatic side. Other than a few from the production-side, it soon becomes very clear that all the enthusiasts want the theatrical mix, and for obvious reasons. This is just S. A. D.

When comparing different systems there may be a huge difference in experience even if they measure equal in frequency response, because the systems are not equal in impulse response and tacitle feel properties like velocity potential. Watched EOT yesterday, and found it to be a very good sound design, especially the bass - full frequency range, hard upper bass hits, heavy blasts with that wind effect experience, and lots of detail down low.

Yes, Into The Storm is a bass-eq candidate, based on the spectrum (in the poll-thread), it falls off sharp below 25hz, and it looks like a shelf filter was used. I have not seen the film myself, but nube's comment regarding loudness-war may indicate that it may not be worth the trouble - you will get more deep bass, but the sound will not be good anyway, and if the overall sound level is too loud it can not be played comfortably at a decent master volume level.

Bass-EQ using Hypex DSC2.xxx: Use Shelf2-filter, same values as for new MiniDSP and JRiver.

I see my post could easily be misunderstood as a "correction" on your statement, which was not what I intended, it was meant to be more as a confirmation of what you said. Differences in how the effects are created and processed often cause problems for Bass-EQ, because some effects can have good spectral balance and ulf level, while others on the same track could need some eq down low. This will of course lead to compromises as they are all on the same track, mixed together, in the final soundtrack while playing, everything will get the same Bass-EQ processing.

Oh, they do. But not necessarily always very loud and ground-shaking. When ulf is preserved there is a much more involving sense of huge scale and atmosphere. And the you have the occasional moment with louder impacts.

I would say this looks very good, certainly not disappointing. ULF extension is one parameter, but the overall sound quality is what matters the most, and if dynamics are lost no ulf shake can bring back the sense of life and realism. If they used sound effects made up from real recording clips, it is a very good chance that the ulf can be recovered. We have already shown that this is the case for many films now.

Kubrick films Bass-EQ While we wait for the final Alien Bass-EQ - the best one for sound-quality - I have some filters for some of the movies from the Kubrick Masterpiece Collection. You do not watch these for the sound, but they can still be improved, with Bass-EQ the overall tonal balance is improved some, and there are occasional moments where low frequencies are noticeable. I have watched Shining and Eyes Wide Shut. Neither has what you can call good sound, especially dialogue spectral balance sounds very movie-like, this can be improved some by tilting down the upper frequencies during playback (not part of the Bass-EQ), many AVR/processors have a Home-Theater EQ function for this. Note the scene in Eyes Wide Shut when he enters the Jazz bar - suddenly there is music with great mid-bass punch, it really sounds like a liv performance in a Jazz club. Shining: lcr+lfe: low-shelf 36hz q=0.91 12dB low-shelf 36hz q=0.91 12dB A space odyssey: lcr+lfe: low-shelf 28hz q=1.07 8dB low-shelf 28hz q=1.07 8dB Eyes wide shut: lcr+lfe: low-shelf 26hz q=0.92 16dB Full Metal Jacket: lcr: low-shelf 36hz q=0.92 16dB low-shelf 26hz q=0.90 8dB lfe: low-shelf 42hz q=0.91 12dB low-shelf 36hz q=0.95 6dB

For comparison of the levels in the recorded scene sl plots for the Alien films, here is the Oblivion from start to coming-in-hot: The levels are around 10dB lower until the final landing, where the levels are actually higher than really possible, because the waveforms are severely clipped to push the level up as loud as possible, or, rather, louder than possible. It still sounds reasonably good, because the harmonics are masked - this is mostly a wide-band noise signal.

All my early Bass-EQ film entries are now updated to MiniDSP new filter parameters. The difference between new and old is a factor of 2, old=2*new.