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maxmercy

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Everything posted by maxmercy

  1. maxmercy
    Transformers 2. We have a tie for peak power between this film and Thor, but TF2 is lower in average power than all other 8 films I have graphed so far. This means that it tops the list in Dynamics. See the charts below. I really like the sound mix in this film, much more than many others. Although there is a rolloff below 30-35Hz, the film manages to keep enough subsonic power available to satisfy, if not overwhelm. The dynamics are such a part of this film, that I propose having four 5-star categories. Level (Average power), Extension (using Avg or Peak power), Dynamics (easily measurable) and Execution. EDIT - Graphs/Charts deleted as TF2 will get a star rating in a later post. JSS
  2. maxmercy
    Transformers, tied for mid and upper bass champ with Scott Pilgrim: This time with the proper -4.0dB Dialnorm compensation factored in. Transformers 2 next...once I have about 20 or so films done, I'll go back and do star ratings for all of them based on extension and level. And I will then ask for opinions on execution and Buy/Rent/Do not waste your time for each film.... JSS EDIT - Deleted graph as the film is reviewed a few posts down.
  3. maxmercy
    AB added to the queue. Even if levels aren't pushed to the max, full bandwidth sound is easily recognizable. Here's Scott Pilgrim: Level - 4 Stars (112.47dB composite) Extension - 4 Stars (13Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (27.12dB) Execution - 5 Stars. Great use of LF in this film. Overall Rating - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Buy. This film is polarizing, and although I love it, many simply do not. JSS
  4. maxmercy
    I think I have the Thor DVD as well (multi-disc set). I will run it when I get back and do a comparo. IIRC, the first film I noticed the use of multiple channels to drive home a point was the Transformers series, where Optimus' voice is used on all 3 front channels to provide more volume and 'weight'..... Of course we all know about M&C, and the discrepancy between Episode II's BluRay and DVD, where the DVD is much hotter in LFE. Hope to get all of those quantified. What many do not notice in the linear graph is that the roll off present is there, just shallower appearing. More films have used the upper part of the .1 channel bandwidth recently, with transformers 2's loudest effect at 120Hz, and you can see Thor's 140Hz effect above. Even the high Le drivers can replicate these tones, so I do not see the problem between choosing low or high Le. I personally prefer a lower Le driver, as I ask my subs to play higher due to my Main's limitations (hopefully will change in the next year). I'll be back Monday. JSS
  5. maxmercy
    Josh just hit the nail on the head, and exposed the peak graph for what it is. That 140Hz spike is when Loki attempts to lift the hammer from the crater and can't do it. Powerful effect, and I would bet money that there is more than just one channel in it... Back when I used to just graph LFE out (no bass redirection) I would see large signal strengths up into the 200s Hz-wise for many films, but others would have a sharp rolloff above 120Hz, hence my using the 160Hz mark for graphing. Graphing logarithmically just doesn't work well, as too much of the graph is just the 0-10Hz, reducing resolution of the rest of the bandwidth. I may have to judge overall output from the average graphs rather than the peak for this reason. Attached is a comparison of all the films by Avg level. It is done in PaHz, as doing this in dBHz makes all of the films so close in magnitude. A doubling of PaHz results in only a 3dB increase in dBHz......these films are more alike than different in overall Avg bass. Although the peak graph can tell its own story. The most memorable events in TIH are the sonic cannons, and the last punch in the 'I'm gonna use both halves of a police car as boxing gloves' scene. Both show up in the peak graph, and the punch shows up in the Avg graph as well. I set up the system with 250Hz crossovers from every LCRS channel so that everything below 250Hz gets sent to the sub, and the lowpass for the LFE channel is set at 250Hz. The graphs show everything on the disc from 160Hz on down. As the databass grows, and we have a good feel for what dB-Hz or Pa-Hz levels constitute what star level, we can get the ratings done, and 1st post updated with same. JSS Going out of town this weekend, my buddy is a Top Gun instructor and got permission from Chief of Naval Air Forces to do a flyby at our alma mater for the homecoming game. As far as I know, 1st time a Division 3 school has gotten an F-18 flyby. I am gonna coordinate on the ground with radio to make sure he hits the field as soon as the choir says 'brave'....
  6. maxmercy
    Bosso, Awesome TIH graphs. Thor: Level - 5 Stars (114.31dB composite) Extension - 3 Stars (19Hz) Dynamics - 5 Stars (29dB) Execution - 4 Stars - Great film, too bad filtered at ~20Hz. Could have been a 5-Star overall if they included substantial infrasonics in a few scenes. Overall Rating - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - Rent, the Shakespearean take on the Marvel Universe may not be everyone's cup of tea. JSS
  7. maxmercy
    Scott Pilgrim, Thor and Transformers graphs are at the ready. Ricci, any word on the upload space? JSS
  8. maxmercy
    Yes. On average, Immortals has more content below 25Hz. For Battle:LA, the trace is correct. My correction file is a set of three polynomial curve fits to approximate the rolloff and properly invert it. There can be artifacts (see Avengers Avg trace 0-10Hz), but it is a systematic error, and most will be apples/apples when comparing films. It will not make or break comparos. When I do Transformers, expect to see the same type of theing below 4Hz, a spike upwards in the peak graph. It is due to one scene with impressive content down to 1Hz, when Megatron Blasts Jazz on the street. I have a Scott Pilgrim graph ready, but no space to upload it to the forum. JSS Films to be graphed in the near future: Sin City Transformers 1,2,3 Iron Man 1&2 Thor XMen 1,2,3, Wolverine, 1st Class Casino Royale Quantum of Solace Star Wars Saga Batman Begins The Dark Knight Green Lantern Speed Racer Alien vs Predator Wrath of the Titans War of the Worlds 9 Cabin in the Woods Prometheus Project X The Hurt Locker
  9. maxmercy
    OK, I got all of the graphs above level-matched and updated. More soon. Now that the graphs are level matched, here's TIH vs Immortals. Will update the first post with films graphed and rating soon. JSS EDIT - Updated graph
  10. maxmercy
    So I went back and was looking at some data....and found a mistake. Immortals is a bit high in level due to the settings I was using. I will re-run it when I get a chance....something tells me that TIH may end up on top again... Finding the best way to do this to be able to do comparos has meant some trial and error... I also found an error on Avengers and Tron. They were a dB or 2 too low, so they will be updated. I now have a checklist to follow to ensure all films will be level matched. I also have Sin City to run in addition to all of the requests above...not expecting too much ULF, but I remember it being better than OK, and a terrific film... JSS
  11. maxmercy
    Ricci, I export peak/avg screen caps from SpecLab, then extract the data using the Java application DataThief, then import that into Excel, to be able to generate all kinds of charts, and direct comparisons. I measured my roll off and applied a correction curve in Excel, so I am flat to 2Hz. Dynamics per octave and overall can also be calculated by subtracting average from peak power calculations. These numbers combined with individual scene waterfalls should provide a solid objective reference for rating LF content in films. I'll add 9 and The Hurt Locker as well as WotW to the Netflix queue. JSS
  12. maxmercy
    There are still many films to go, WOTW, WOTT, and others. So far, I threw in the heavy hitters I own or have on loan, and Immortals took it to 'em. I am again out of town this weekend. If I get a chance, I'll get some more graphs done after that, and update the first post with ratings and ask for consensus on them, as well as any other films to graph. I plan on doing Project X, Scott Pilgrim, CitW, Prometheus, The Transformers Films, and The Iron Man films as well as Captain America and other requests. We should have a really good databass soon. JSS
  13. maxmercy
    Your welcome folks. I just figured out how to do real comparos with the films. Check it out, Battle:LA vs Avengers (had to downsize, ran out of upload space): Any film can now be directly compared to another if a question should arise, and not just with the octave values. JSS PS - From all comparisons I have done, Immortals is King. Too bad the limiters clipped the track. EDIT - Immortals is no longer king after a level-matching issue. Graph deleted to save upload space.
  14. maxmercy
    Here's Tron:Legacy. Level - 5 Stars (113.03dB composite) Extension - 5-Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.26dB) Execution - 3 Stars - Really good track, but look closely at the extension. Save for a few scenes, the average graph tells most of the tale. It's F10 is only 22Hz. The problem with this track is the clipping in the LCR and Surround channels (the LFE channel is suprisingly unaffected). An article reported that the director Joseph Kosinski went back and 'modified' the soundtrack for the BluRay release. Too bad. At first, I thought the clipping almost intentional, given Daft Punk's music style, but it is not always the case. 3 Stars for the clipping. Overall Rating: 4.25 Stars Recommendation - A reluctant Buy. The visuals in this film are so tremendous, that they can even overpower the botched sound at times. JSS
  15. maxmercy
    Avengers, the biggest LF disappointment of all time, but also indirectly the reason this thread was started, so you have to give it that. Level - 4 Stars (110.53dB composite) Extension - 2 Stars (21Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (26.13dB) Execution - 3 Stars - 1 Star deducted for lack of extension, 1 star deducted for lack of continuity with previous Marvel films, and a general 'mail-in' of the soundtrack. It is my personal theory that the highpass filter was put into effect after several subwoofer drivers were blown during the mixing of this film. It is too bad this got such filtering, as it is such a great film. You can even see sweeps that should have dug down to the teens just disappear in the filter's grasp. Oh well. Overall Rating - 3.25 Stars. What a shame. Overall Recommendation - Reluctantly, I still say BUY. It is that good a film, putting together all of the characters in a great way, with comic-book one-liners throughout. JSS
  16. maxmercy
    The Incredible Hulk. Still the one track I hold others to. EDIT - Updated graph and Ratings below: Level - 5 Stars (112.99dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (2Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.61dB) Execution - 5 Stars - Still the track I hold all others to. It has everything. Overall Rating: 4.75 Stars JSS
  17. maxmercy
    http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA1.jpg http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA2.jpg http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA3.jpg http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA4.jpg http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA5.jpghttp://www.avsforum.com/photopost/data/2386425/BLA6.jpg Battle:LA. EDIT - Rankings below as well as updated graph. Level - 4 Stars (112.11dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 4 Stars (25.91dB) Execution - 5 Stars - In my opinion, one of the finest mixes utilizing ULF ever created. No easily detectable clipping, utilization of the entire LFE band, and most of all, it sounded right. The helo ride to the FOB is great stuff. The alien weapons have a touch of 20 and below Hz to give them extra weight. Overall rating - 4.5 Stars Recommendation - Buy. This film has some cheesy parts, and I may be biased being a former US Marine, but I really think this is demo material. The Incredible Hulk is next. JSS
  18. maxmercy
    OK folks, I got my correction file to get accurate data down to 2Hz to work. Here's Immortals (see previous post): I will get to work on a few others today. Battle:LA is next. JSS EDIT - Updated, level-matched graph on previous post.
  19. maxmercy
    Better yet, I think I found a way over the weekend in which I should be able to correct for my rolloff, by using the 'Reference Curve' function on speclab. I would need to run a loopback with REW using the signal chain including the AVR, and then use the loopback file as a 'calfile' as long as the offsets are not large enough to add noise to the signal from the correction. I think I should be able to get flat to 3Hz or so without any noise above -70dBFS. Will get a chance to play with it on Saturday. If it works, a tutorial will be put together on how to do this and be able to get nearly exact numbers, so others can contribute. Do you think leaving it at PaHz is the right thing to do? I think so. I like linear, but can easily calculate both (the spreadsheet already does it). Gotta go, JSS
  20. maxmercy
    First post modified to show the buy/no-buy/rent recommendation. One more question about the ratings/measurements: I could leave the power measurements in Pascal-Hertz, or put them in deciBel-Hz. PaHz are linear, and will show more change from one film to another, while dBHz will only show a 3dB increase when the numbers double. I think a linear based power measurement is better for this reason. I will be out of town for the next few days, but will get back to measuring films later this week and building up a good data set. JSS
  21. maxmercy
    I like the buy/rent/no-buy idea. Although to be truly honest, I will not purchase a film solely for ULF (although it does play a part). Afer all, the most watched film in my theater in the past 3 months is The Natural......but I am a basshead, no question. I make my recommendation on Immortals a 'rent' then....and if you like it, buy. JSS
  22. maxmercy
    Here is Immortals Peak/Avg, from the data in Excel, as the databass grows, we will be able to compare any film to another! JSS PS - The 18Hz spike is from every time the Epirus Bow is drawn and fired. Powerful effect. EDIT - New no-rolloff PvA trace graph added. Here's the breakdown for Immortals: Level - 5 Stars (115.95dB composite) Extension - 5 Stars (1Hz) Dynamics - 3 Stars (24.85dB) EDIT - Execution - 4 Stars - This film would have been just tremendous if it didn't clip noticeably. The mix team supposedly did it on purpose, as it was supposed to be an 'over the top' mix, but they ran into the buss limiters on many scenes. Overall Rating - 4.25 Stars Recommendation - RENT. You may like this film. The battles between Gods and Titans are pretty good. I will not own it, but I have it on loan from a friend. JSS
  23. maxmercy
    Repeat post, sorry. JSS
  24. maxmercy
    Well folks, I got it to work. I can pull data from a SpecLab peak average graph, and I did a test-run on Immortals: Immortals Bass Power Overall Peak Power 535.7 0-10Hz Peak Power 28.4 10-20Hz Peak Power 60.4 20-40Hz Peak Power 99.8 40-80Hz Peak Power 183.8 80-160Hz Peak Power 163.3 Overall Average Power 31.8 0-10Hz Average Power 1.6 10-20Hz Average Power 3.6 20-40Hz Average Power 6.6 40-80Hz Avergae Power 10.6 80-160Hz Average Power 9.5 The power ratings are in PaHz. I essentially did a numerical integration to find the area under the curve for the peak and average graphs from 0-160Hz, and for each octave specified. Now we can have a truly apples/apples comparison for films. One caveat: I do rolloff below 7Hz, -3dB down at 5Hz, and off the cliff under that. But for relative comparisons, this should be a very good tool. As far as star ratings, Immortals gets 5 star extension, 5 star level, but 3 star for execution due to the clipping involved, which I believe is in the sattelite channels,average star level of 4.3. Overall buy/no-buy is a coin toss for me. Some great scenes, though, if you can ffwd through the BS parts. JSS
  25. maxmercy
    Looks good to me, but bosso needs to chime in as it looks like you have a rolloff below 10Hz. Great news on the data front. I will be able to grab data from peak/avg graphs, with the help of a program called DataThief, an autotrace program. It will allow me to gather data on a film's peak/avg content and find out relative sound power per octave. It is time intensive, and if someone knows of a better autotrace program than DataThief, please let me know. Bad part is for datathief to be able to track the trace well, it is not a pretty looking trace (black and white graph, mainly). I have an out of town conference to attend and a 1 hour lecture to give next week, so I will be out of the loop for a while, no data until then. I will start the data gathering with recent and known great bass films in about a week or so. JSS
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