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Ricci's Skram Subwoofer & Files


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15 hours ago, rolo95 said:

btw, the tops were some 80's jbl MR925's  4 of them, they are heavy as F... so i want to change that also

if i had the dough , i think i will get SH50's for tops and tell somebody to build 8 skrams 4 me

So your JBLs are too heavy and you wanna replace them with SH50's.

Are you aware that the SH50 is over twice the weight of your JBL? ūüôÉ

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On 4/14/2022 at 6:06 PM, jay michael said:

While the limiters are basic on the dbx units I think they are enough to get by. I ran a Pa2 for probably close to 7 or 8 years and never burnt up any drivers. The venu360 is a big step up in functionality and sound quality but at that price there should be lots of good options out there. Personally I think if you are running your system into limit hard enough to think your limiter isn't up to the job the problem isn't your limiter, its that you don't have enough system for the job. I haven't needed to run my Skram's or my Danley's into limiting yet, if the day comes that it is required ill just start cutting up more wood  :)

Im not shure but the ashly proteas and even the peavey digital ones suppose to be better than the DBX entry level, thing is that not anybody can tell the difference on a blind test on a live setup,i wish to have an XTA or BSS lol., there is an EV and a mackie processor also and many guys still use the behringer unit, so i cant tell by myself as i only have the old driverack PA. 

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On 4/15/2022 at 9:02 AM, peniku8 said:

So your JBLs are too heavy and you wanna replace them with SH50's.

Are you aware that the SH50 is over twice the weight of your JBL? ūüôÉ

lol, but one SH50 sound like 8 JBL's :D    , speaking of DIY Tops what would be some recommendations, i see people that run 4 linear style cabinets per side , sometime on top of the subs and sometimes hanged with scaffolds or truss, is there any DIY plans for linear type tops ? , also what about the vertical stacked 6.5" drivers i see one person who made RFC NX-L24A Clone to use as tops. can you stack those side by side or you need to separate them by some extent

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On 4/13/2022 at 7:37 AM, rolo95 said:

I just found this thread and get hooked in to it! , i have a couple of questions tough, 

is it possible to modify a little to fit 2 12" drivers or 4 8"? , take my questions

with a grain of salt or 2 i dont have any sub design knowledge

budget 18" drivers like the 18TBX100 possible ?

does anybody  had tested the clones like Sanway, sinbosen and CVR 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275253000470?epid=12031073806&hash=item40165b7916:g:MHcAAOSwrY5iS0mr

Best.

Rolo.

I have to disagree with the other guys, i've been running my skrams with 4x cheap 10" car audio drivers for a couple of years now and they still blow me away every time.

Ive never heard proper skrams with the drivers they're designed for but i've been to a lot of big festivals over the last couple of months with everything from Martin W bins to old turbosounds to EV dual 18" reflex's and I was still pleasantly surprised dragging my 4x skrams out to an easter festival this weekend.

Much lower, much cleaner, and simply amazing on DnB and other bass music, they lacked a bit of kick on techno and house music but that could be as much of a problem with my tops or tuning as it was the subs (4x martin W3s crossed at 80hz 24db LR)

This weekend I was running the 4x subs from an EV Q1212 at 4ohm per channel crossed at 110hz/24db LR and doing between 100 and 110dbc at FOH and got many compliments for how clean and clear it was.

Man the picture attachment on here is tiny, hopefully insta links work instead?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CckocfHP946/

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cckoo-vALue/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CckowEzAL-U/

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10 hours ago, h3idrun said:

I have to disagree with the other guys, i've been running my skrams with 4x cheap 10" car audio drivers for a couple of years now and they still blow me away every time.

Ive never heard proper skrams with the drivers they're designed for but i've been to a lot of big festivals over the last couple of months with everything from Martin W bins to old turbosounds to EV dual 18" reflex's and I was still pleasantly surprised dragging my 4x skrams out to an easter festival this weekend.

Much lower, much cleaner, and simply amazing on DnB and other bass music, they lacked a bit of kick on techno and house music but that could be as much of a problem with my tops or tuning as it was the subs (4x martin W3s crossed at 80hz 24db LR)

This weekend I was running the 4x subs from an EV Q1212 at 4ohm per channel crossed at 110hz/24db LR and doing between 100 and 110dbc at FOH and got many compliments for how clean and clear it was.

Man the picture attachment on here is tiny, hopefully insta links work instead?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CckocfHP946/

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cckoo-vALue/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CckowEzAL-U/

thats great man !! can you share what drivers you have used and how do you modify the skram to fit them ?

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4 hours ago, rolo95 said:

thats great man !! can you share what drivers you have used and how do you modify the skram to fit them ?

I have Memphis Car Audio SR10S8 in mine, they are just <$100 basic car subs that I had laying around so obviously have nowhere near the power handling or sensitivity of the proper PA drivers these are made for but the frequency response looks  similar to other graphs in this thread

 

Only modifications I made was omitting some bracing and cutting 4x 10" holes instead of 1x 21" hole.

 

If you search my previous comments in this thread there's a bit more info

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By saving a few bucks on drivers you'll end up having to bring twice as many cabs to a gig.

You'll end up spending more on wood than you saved on the drivers. Plus having to haul more subs around.

Definitely not worth it imo, not even taking the difference in sound quality into account.

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9 hours ago, peniku8 said:

By saving a few bucks on drivers you'll end up having to bring twice as many cabs to a gig.

You'll end up spending more on wood than you saved on the drivers. Plus having to haul more subs around.

Definitely not worth it imo, not even taking the difference in sound quality into account.

The only reason I did it is because I already had the drivers, and don't yet have the money for the proper ones. However I am pleasantly surprised with the output compared to most other PA rigs i've heard.

It depends on what you need them for, how loud it needs to be, how much power you have etc etc. Ive done 3 club shows and 7 outdoor shows that I never would have been able to do if I waited till i could afford the big drivers.

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16 hours ago, h3idrun said:

The only reason I did it is because I already had the drivers, and don't yet have the money for the proper ones. However I am pleasantly surprised with the output compared to most other PA rigs i've heard.

It depends on what you need them for, how loud it needs to be, how much power you have etc etc. Ive done 3 club shows and 7 outdoor shows that I never would have been able to do if I waited till i could afford the big drivers.

ok so this is the thing, there is a place inside, around  50' wide and around 80' long on the dance floor,the stage is centered in the back around 30' wide 15' long and it is 5' from the ground , the ceilings of the place is around 20' so i think that is not as bad as lower ceilings.

bands play there on weekends and they bring their own PA and was not thrilled ( most cause they do not have a FOH guy and others do not not know what they are doing ) but one setup that despite was not a stellar mix ( and by the way the best from the pack ) was this guys that had Active JBL SRX ,  one SRX 835 on top of one SRX828 , per side... just that.

I know you suppose to have a 2:1 ratio on subs, so 2 subs per one top ,but they only had 1 sub per top and also if i were them i would cluster the 2 bass cabinets on one side , they are loosing 3db right ? cause they are not putting the subs side by side? 

 

anyway, from the other far end of the room the bass was full and the mid and highs just ok. the mix was not right cause you cant hear the drums but that is not the speakers fault

at least i want that kind of sound pressure level.

( i will get a SPL meter later on so to measure the average SPL at my listening point )

one skram will sound like 2 SRX828 ? 

power amps i have is not that great, 1 dbx driverack PA over 1 PLX3002 , one XLS2500 and one XLS2000

( wish to have BSS or XTA processors) but they are out of my range.

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On 4/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, rolo95 said:

one skram will sound like 2 SRX828 ? 

No, even the Skram won't make a 21" driver sound like four 18". Looking at the specs it should outperform or be on par with a single 828 though, as long as the Skram has an adequate driver with adequate amping.

 

On 4/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, rolo95 said:

I know you suppose to have a 2:1 ratio on subs, so 2 subs per one top

That depends on your subs, your tops, the location and the kind of show you're producing.
But I guess 2:1 is a good ratio for these kind of shows. Also, the guy you're describing had 4 18" drivers for 2 tops, so it's 2:1, isn't it?

 

On 4/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, rolo95 said:

also if i were them i would cluster the 2 bass cabinets on one side , they are loosing 3db right ? cause they are not putting the subs side by side?

No, not really. Indoors, setting up subs in different locations will make for a better spatial average across the room. In wide rooms or outside, where some of the audience stand at the sides at a heavy angle to the PA, you'll run into lobing issues unless you stack your subs (you'd stack them center). But since your room isn't that wide and I suppose the subs were set up rather close to the side walls, you won't have to fight lobing. Also putting tops on your subs means you won't have to bring stands :)

 

On 4/22/2022 at 6:14 PM, rolo95 said:

power amps i have is not that great, 1 dbx driverack PA over 1 PLX3002 , one XLS2500 and one XLS2000

Even more of a reason to get high efficiency PA drivers over a bunch of cheap car audio ones.
It means you'll get a few more db out of the subs within your available power.

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9 hours ago, peniku8 said:

That depends on your subs, your tops, the location and the kind of show you're producing.
But I guess 2:1 is a good ratio for these kind of shows. Also, the guy you're describing had 4 18" drivers for 2 tops, so it's 2:1, isn't it?

What i mean is he suppose to have 2 bass cabinets per one top cabinet, what i normally saw is 2 SRX828 with one SRX835 on top, but this guys only had 1 SRX828 tall standing ( portrait mode LOL) instead of 2 Bass cabinets in landscape mode :D , anyway, many thanks for your comments, i am learning along the way as i am reading and reading some more.

i was looking at the Paul Morris PM90, PM60 top cabinets plans and geezz, those are 12" MDM configuration  , dual 12" with the HF driver in the middle, but they are not 2 way they are 3 way was the HF is coaxial and guess what  B&C DCX464 that at todays price is like 850+ bucks, just for the HF driver. and 2 12HPL76 are 240 each so , 480 + 850.. plus the horn , he used a ciare PR614 at 120 , 480 + 850 + 120, then add the wood, i guess you will do with a songle sheet of 4x8 , thats another 60 plus... screws.glue, duratex or liner and inside foam. another 60 ?  then the grill, another 60 ?

so  850+480+120+60+60+60. total 1,630 , i mean i wish to have a cost for 500 so to be on my ballpark, still 1.6k is nothing compared to NEXO,MEYER, EAW and RCF just to say some big names cabinets. i know something like that will cost around 3k each cabinet. 

so. ohh my. this effin pandemic just bringed up that speaker and wood prices have gone crazy up beisdes gas and food prices.

i wish i started this in the 80's :(, anyway. i will keep dreaming of having a compact stellar PA, i think my short-midterm project will be a pair of SKRAMS per side and one poors man PM90 ( similar design with budget drivers ) and a pair of CVR 3002 amps

and btw, i just found out something that maybe all of you already knew

Behringer are in the same conglomerate as this brands  MUSICTRIBE ( wow )

I want a Lake 44 !!! lol 

 

 

 

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The PM90 would be my go to choice if I was doing PA for a living on a budget. Other than Peters Line Array I would say its the best sounding speaker I have heard in a PA lineup. I got to hear it compared to a 10ft tall Krix pro cinema speaker and it sounded quite similar at 1/4 or less the size. PM90 only goes down to about 120hz but that is a lot of fire power in a small package.

Sadly I havent started building my Skrams yet due to pricing of lumber and divorce. Hopefully will start towards the end of this year.

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I'm pretty happy with my 21ds115 powered subs (similar to the Skrams I guess, just a bit smaller) and l-acoustics ARCS wide tops.

PM90 components are obviously top of the line, but I personally prefer scalable solutions (the ARCS wide can be used as single 90x30¬į loudspeaker or in a fixed curvature line array with ARCS focus (15¬į) speakers).
PM90 won't achieve uniform audience coverage over a large area, but it'll do exceptionally well for small clubs or small outdoor shows. Or when you just want higher SPL closer to the stage.

 

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Hey everybody,

my system is growing slowly and steadily. Soon I'll be ready for summer! While getting used to the DSP software I was playing around with crossover setting. My cabinets are not finished yet but I was already wondering how everybody else feeds their Skrams? I will be using AE TD10Ms as mids with fs=40Hz so I should probably not go too low with them.

How high/low are you cutting your Skrams off?

Blessings,
Domme

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On 4/20/2022 at 10:05 PM, h3idrun said:

is it possible to modify a little to fit 2 12" drivers or 4 8"? , take my questions

with a grain of salt or 2 i dont have any sub design knowledge

Going back to the original question I believe it is possible to modify the Skrams for different drivers with acceptable results, obviously better drivers are better, but from what i have experienced with my crappy drivers 4x good quality 10s could sound amazing, and possibly have better power handling and heat dissipation than 1x beefy 21"

It all depends on priorities, money, weight, transport space etc etc.

I just used drivers I had already while still saving for the proper ones that I can swap in later on, if you have to buy all new stuff anyway then its probably wise to just go straight for the ones these boxes were designed for

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3 hours ago, h3idrun said:

from what i have experienced with my crappy drivers 4x good quality 10s could sound amazing, and possibly have better power handling and heat dissipation than 1x beefy 21"

Would be interesting to see what can be had, even if it only makes sense when you just so happen to have the drivers already.
4 10" drivers have about 75% of the surface area of a 21. Looking at B&C's lineup, they'll have half the Xmax, but about the same power handling combined. So mid-bass would suffer a little, while you'd be giving up more in the deep bass.
What's the beefiest 10" driver with usable Qes for the Skram? SEAS L26RO4Y looks pretty neat. Disregarding that 4 of them cost twice as much as a 21ds115, they should perform decently well, although worse in every regard compared to the 21ds115. Maybe they'd take more sustained power.

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On 4/25/2022 at 7:41 PM, chrapladm said:

The PM90 would be my go to choice if I was doing PA for a living on a budget. Other than Peters Line Array I would say its the best sounding speaker I have heard in a PA lineup. I got to hear it compared to a 10ft tall Krix pro cinema speaker and it sounded quite similar at 1/4 or less the size. PM90 only goes down to about 120hz but that is a lot of fire power in a small package.

Sadly I havent started building my Skrams yet due to pricing of lumber and divorce. Hopefully will start towards the end of this year.

Sorry to hear man, and yes this economic price rise have been stoping almost to a halt all the plans to build or acquire stuff , gas prices raise and thus all the chain that have to do with it, with the pandemic all of the factories and stuff in the chain suffered a lot, thus we are seeing shortage of everything and prices to inflated that you need to sell a kidney to get a pro 21" driver literally. hang in there better times must come... at least i still do not loose the faith. 

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On 4/26/2022 at 7:55 AM, peniku8 said:

I'm pretty happy with my 21ds115 powered subs (similar to the Skrams I guess, just a bit smaller) and l-acoustics ARCS wide tops.

PM90 components are obviously top of the line, but I personally prefer scalable solutions (the ARCS wide can be used as single 90x30¬į loudspeaker or in a fixed curvature line array with ARCS focus (15¬į) speakers).
PM90 won't achieve uniform audience coverage over a large area, but it'll do exceptionally well for small clubs or small outdoor shows. Or when you just want higher SPL closer to the stage.

 

hey. what subs you have built ? and i looked for the l-acoustics arcs and it dont show as current production in their site, so they are not being made anymore ?

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4 hours ago, h3idrun said:

Going back to the original question I believe it is possible to modify the Skrams for different drivers with acceptable results, obviously better drivers are better, but from what i have experienced with my crappy drivers 4x good quality 10s could sound amazing, and possibly have better power handling and heat dissipation than 1x beefy 21"

It all depends on priorities, money, weight, transport space etc etc.

I just used drivers I had already while still saving for the proper ones that I can swap in later on, if you have to buy all new stuff anyway then its probably wise to just go straight for the ones these boxes were designed for

what about 2 high sensitivity 12"s , i saw that on most "PRO" subs that's what they use, is there high sensitivity drivers on 12" size ? looks like the car ones are not focused on sensitivity, thing is that, if  we can get away with similar or better output with less money on car drivers or PA drivers like dual 12" or quad 8"'s or 10"'s , i wish that costwill be around 400 for the drivers... not 800 that is prohibiting right now for most of us.

and btw, once you have enough on your piggybank, and get the recommended 21" , how you will fit in to it, i mean as you have a 4 hole mounting baffle already, with an already glued speaker, how do you modify it to stick a 21 there ?

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38 minutes ago, peniku8 said:

Would be interesting to see what can be had, even if it only makes sense when you just so happen to have the drivers already.
4 10" drivers have about 75% of the surface area of a 21. Looking at B&C's lineup, they'll have half the Xmax, but about the same power handling combined. So mid-bass would suffer a little, while you'd be giving up more in the deep bass.
What's the beefiest 10" driver with usable Qes for the Skram? SEAS L26RO4Y looks pretty neat. Disregarding that 4 of them cost twice as much as a 21ds115, they should perform decently well, although worse in every regard compared to the 21ds115. Maybe they'd take more sustained power.

what about 2 12" or 2 15"s 

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@rolo95My subs are my own custom designs. Imagine Skram with half the horn length and the driver downfiring.
ARCS Wide/Focus have been replaced by their new A series, which fills the gap between point sources and line arrays less well than WiFo did imo. But Martin Audio released the Torus series, which seems very similar to what ARCS WiFo is, with some additional features. Probably in the same ~4k price range depending on your region/dealer. ARCS are quite a bit heavier than Torus though.

As for SPL vs money I've been saying that 21" has been most cost effective for quite a while now, even before covid.

Two 15ds115's will surely outperform a single 21ds115, but look at the price. I personally think it doesn't get much better from a cost per SPL point of view than 21ds115 or the very similar LaVoce driver.

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