m_ms Posted April 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2018 15 hours ago, SME said: As I said, the question of whether horn subs have a "unique sound" that can be heard indoors is debated. Actually, that discussion assumes quality drivers and a competent build to begin with. Ideally, a sub shouldn't have a distinct sound at all beyond that which can be adjusted using EQ, but it's not hard to get a distinct (bad) sound from a sub that's poorly designed or poorly built. That goes for sealed, vented, and horn subs alike. From what I can assess lilmike's MicroWrecker is a competently developed tapped horn (easily the equal of the F20, it seems), and the driver I intend to use here, the B&C 15TBX100, is said to model very well in named horn, apart from being a quality driver in itself. The Wrecker sports a sensitivity of some 96dB's (like the driver), has decent bandwidth, good power handling and an expectedly potent bass "footprint" that far exceeds what a similarly sized driver could do as a typical stand-alone direct radiator, all of which should bode well for ample headroom in my case, not least using two of them. With some extra plywood for a bigger sized enclosure and free plans for a TH readily supplied by lilmike it seems quite some money is saved compared to buying bigger and more expensive drivers, in multitudes (incl. amps), for smaller enclosures for DR use. As I've pointed out I don't mind the extra size of horns, and there is room for them in a variety of positions. Quote As for what integrates best with your horn speakers, the question of sound characteristic is not especially relevant here. The sound depends far more on the effects of the room on the chosen placements for the sub(s) and listeners, any EQ or crossovers that are used, and the linear response of the sub at its upper limits. As I said, horn subs have more limited upper frequency capability, which makes them less flexible in small rooms. This means that you may be able to achieve better integration with the mains by *not* using a horn sub. It's really a minor thing, but I believe it's a lot more important than sound characteristic. As I intend to low pass the Wrecker at some 60-65Hz I don't see how that should pose a problem? I'm not trying to be willful, I just don't see how it applies in my situation. Quote In terms of sub design choice, the relevant questions are how much SPL you want with what kind of extension, how much space you have, how much effort you are willing to put into the build, and much money you are willing to spend. A pair of decent sealed 18"+ subs will give you plenty of SPL and extension for the modest listening levels you indicated. Sealed subs with 18"+ drivers has certainly been on my radar as well and I suspect they can even approach single digit performance (Hz), but by all accounts this will be a more expensive path if going for the same level of headroom. I've hired a cabinet maker to build my subs, and I have a good bearing on the expense for this purpose which, added to the fair priced B&C units mentioned earlier, should make for a cost effective sub solution. I don't know how much one should push for sub 15Hz capabilities, but of course it obviously drives some more than others to achieve this. It certainly comes at a price, one way or the other, and I'd rather have my focus on the 20Hz range and up and have higher SPL capability and headroom than pay dearly for the infrasonics. A 20-25Hz TH should be able to reach close to 15Hz in-room, which is fine by me. Quote It seems to me that you've already made up your mind that horns are the only way to go. If so, then there's likely nothing any of us can say to convince you otherwise. And to be fair, you'll probably do just fine with horn subs like the F20. However, if you are serious about getting best integration with the mains or with choosing a design that fulfills your needs while better fitting your budget for money and space, you should definitely consider other design types. In effect, yes, I have made up my mind, but it's not that I won't reach for the hand brake if it seems what I'm after is running at a collision course. Concerning budget it seems the MicroWrecker will be a great bang for the buck, likely even very capable in more absolute terms, and to reiterate: space considerations, while not of no importance, is not an issue. Quote FWIW, I'm running 4 x high performance sealed 21" cabinets which get pushed to 125-130 dB from time to time. I chose them because I was space constrained, wanted a lot of extension, and was willing to spend the money. That appears to be one heck of a capable sub-setup you've implemented. Would love to hear it, but I reside in Europe.. By my monetary range and needs I believe the horn approach to be the most appropriate, but obviously I'll have to create some sawdust and trial and error process to see whether it's actually the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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