Ricci's Skhorn Subwoofer & Files

[Ricci]

Speakerpower plate fits the hatch cutout nicely.

[Revolt Sound]

Ok so it was an air leak that is causing the noise problem. It was coming from one of the un used t-nuts for the different drivers we will be testing. 

[Ricci]

7 hours ago, Revolt Sound said:

Ok so it was an air leak that is causing the noise problem. It was coming from one of the un used t-nuts for the different drivers we will be testing. 

That's good news. Should be an easy fix.

[Kyle]

9 hours ago, Revolt Sound said:

Ok so it was an air leak that is causing the noise problem. It was coming from one of the un used t-nuts for the different drivers we will be testing. 

T-nuts don't really seal well, even with a screw in there, its not perfect

 

 

[dsl1]

On 4/16/2019 at 9:40 AM, Ricci said:

Speakerpower plate fits the hatch cutout nicely.

Lol, that is close. Did you have to cut anything to make it fit?

The back mount ended up working nicely. 

 

[Ricci]

20 hours ago, dsl1 said:

Lol, that is close. Did you have to cut anything to make it fit?

The back mount ended up working nicely. 

Nah. It fit like a glove. The backmount in the hatch looks great. I wish I would've thought of that before you cut my hatches. Was it enough to fully recess the knobs?

[dsl1]

On 4/25/2019 at 11:15 AM, Ricci said:

Nah. It fit like a glove. The backmount in the hatch looks great. I wish I would've thought of that before you cut my hatches. Was it enough to fully recess the knobs?

Yes, the knobs are fully recessed. Worked out quite nicely.

[SME]

Hey, is anyone aware of someone building a bunch of these, for like a big touring rig or something?

I was at a Red Rocks Ampitheater concert recently that had some decently loud bass (though nothing like I've heard some acts bring), just guessing here but maybe high one-teens at 50 m outdoors. (?)  Unfortunately, only one frequency was real loud, right at 40 Hz where the vented cabs were almost certainly tuned.  It was a bit obnoxious, but I don't doubt they were designed that way for loudness.  There were eight of them arranged in two vertical arrays.  They were supplemented by kick bins, but those weren't arrayed and didn't reach back as well as the subs.

That got me to thinking about how many Skhorn's I'd need for similar or higher SPL and realized the numbers are pretty staggering.  I'd probably start with 4 on each side, and a total of 16 would likely not be wasted for heavy "bass music".  I may be discounting some benefits from the acoustics, including a tall (probably tall enough to amplify a lot of bass) wall of rock behind the stage and large rock formations that cradle the space.  It seemed that the loudest 40 Hz continuous notes took several seconds to build to full intensity.

[Ricci]

Not yet...There are a few outfits with 12+ Othorns though.

6 Skhorns should be able to produce the levels and frequencies you are talking about at 50m outside. 8 for a bit of extra headroom. 16 sure would be more fun though.

[Planet]

On 12/29/2016 at 11:58 PM, radulescu_paul_mircea said:

Another brand that I know off of using this design principle (except KV2 ) is Traktion Sound , a small company with some interesting looking subs and speakers.

http://www.tractionsound.com/loudspeakers/bps221-harpia.php

They have a separated sub for 30-40 hz with dual 21", probably very efficient in the pass band and another for the rest of the range ,smaller with dual 18".that is probably a very good approach for best efficiency.

that's crazy i live 20 minutes drive from there base but i never heard of them before.

[peniku8]

@Ricci, how do you expect the new Eminence driver to perform in the SKHorn? Its stats looks pretty close to the IPAL, with the benefit of being a good fit for 2Ohm stable amps (with 3Ohm per Cab per channel), but the efficiency might be a little lower?

Since the LaVoce dropped in price here (to 350€/400$, can probably get it even cheaper) it would also be interesting how one would modify the cab to fit that driver better (slightly larger back chamber?).

[Ricci]

On 7/14/2019 at 5:05 PM, peniku8 said:

@Ricci, how do you expect the new Eminence driver to perform in the SKHorn? Its stats looks pretty close to the IPAL, with the benefit of being a good fit for 2Ohm stable amps (with 3Ohm per Cab per channel), but the efficiency might be a little lower?

Since the LaVoce dropped in price here (to 350€/400$, can probably get it even cheaper) it would also be interesting how one would modify the cab to fit that driver better (slightly larger back chamber?).

NSW6021-6 looks great in either the Skhorn or Skram. No mods needed. Same for the SAN214.50. If you want a larger back chamber use the Skram. 

[peniku8]

5 hours ago, Ricci said:

NSW6021-6 looks great in either the Skhorn or Skram. No mods needed. Same for the SAN214.50. If you want a larger back chamber use the Skram. 

That's cool, I was thinking about boosting the bottom end (via a larget back chamber?) to get a flatter FR. Or would multiples (open air) do the trick similar than horn stacking? I know you get the biggest benefits by making a cluster, but I'm not a fan of that. I'd either go with one per side for smaller shows or a row of 4/6/8 along the stage front. Ya know, beamforming n stuff

I mixed a show for around 1600 guests a while ago and there was a center bass cluster of 4 SB218. When mixing so that the FOH had a decent bass level 20m from the stage, the first row near the subs was in for a hell of a ride. When hearing complaints about the kickdrum, my question 'where did you stand?' was always answered by 'right in front of the stage'. I don't wanna do that when I'm in charge of the PA.

[Ricci]

A pair of Skram's has larger back volume and vent area over a single Skhorn.  The cab is just split in half for easier moving and arranging. I'd hesitate to go much bigger / heavier than the Skhorn in a single cab. 

[peniku8]

On 2/20/2018 at 10:10 PM, Ricci said:

Incorporating the air volume in the driver cones rather into S2, instead of using Vtc and Atc, was a much closer match for this design.

I got into HR today and finally understand why you chose to correct the parameters like this. How much of a difference did this make?

[peniku8]

Another thing that confuses me is the fact that you did use the lossy inductance setting, but did not use the additional parameters you measured, or am I confusing things now?

When I enter values there and turn them on, the Le will light up in green. The SKHorn measurement looks closest to the simulation without these parameters (Le in red), so should I model my design (using the IPALs atm) with Le in red?

I'm trying to understand this setting, am I correct in saying that lossy inductance kinda does what the shorting ring is doing in the driver?

[SME]

You should carefully double-check the inputs you used for the semi-inductance including the names and units.  Note that the order of parameters published on Data Bass may not match the order you need to input them into Hornresp.  If you aren't sure, can you post a screen shot of the screen with the inputs?

[Ricci]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:40 PM, peniku8 said:

Another thing that confuses me is the fact that you did use the lossy inductance setting, but did not use the additional parameters you measured, or am I confusing things now?

When I enter values there and turn them on, the Le will light up in green. The SKHorn measurement looks closest to the simulation without these parameters (Le in red), so should I model my design (using the IPALs atm) with Le in red?

I'm trying to understand this setting, am I correct in saying that lossy inductance kinda does what the shorting ring is doing in the driver?

You should use the semi inductance parameters. Green...The Red Le setting is only a best guess for when you do not have better information to go on. I'll go back and look at my Skhorn sim when I get a chance. I've got probably 100 records or more for the Skhorn going back years so it's possible I may have grabbed the wrong one or something.

[Ricci]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 3:40 PM, peniku8 said:

Another thing that confuses me is the fact that you did use the lossy inductance setting, but did not use the additional parameters you measured, or am I confusing things now?

When I enter values there and turn them on, the Le will light up in green. The SKHorn measurement looks closest to the simulation without these parameters (Le in red), so should I model my design (using the IPALs atm) with Le in red?

I'm trying to understand this setting, am I correct in saying that lossy inductance kinda does what the shorting ring is doing in the driver?

Updated the HR inputs for modeling the Skhorn cab in the first post. I deleted probably 200 HR records related to these cabs and variations. No wonder I had a hard time identifying the correct ones!

[SME]

I noticed earlier in this thread you discussed making and improving vent block to adjust the tuning frequency.  Can you provide any details of the design and how it attaches to the front-end?  I did look at the pictures and noticed that you don't appear to use any round-overs at the vent exits.  I'm hoping I can find a way to securely block rectangular vents with round-overs.  Good luck, ehh?

[Ricci]

21 hours ago, SME said:

I noticed earlier in this thread you discussed making and improving vent block to adjust the tuning frequency.  Can you provide any details of the design and how it attaches to the front-end?  I did look at the pictures and noticed that you don't appear to use any round-overs at the vent exits.  I'm hoping I can find a way to securely block rectangular vents with round-overs.  Good luck, ehh?

Good luck indeed if you do the roundovers. 

The port blocks I have are cut to fit into the ports and screw in on both ends but due to the way that the port dividers are cut the do not overlap the lip of the ports on 2 sides. I put some electrical tape on the edges and wedge in a bit of dense foam behind them then screw them down. It's not perfect by any means but there is very little leaking. I wouldn't say it's perfectly sealed either though. 

I haven't thought about it in a long time but I'd like to see what you come up with. 

[peniku8]

On 8/7/2019 at 9:16 PM, SME said:

I noticed earlier in this thread you discussed making and improving vent block to adjust the tuning frequency.  Can you provide any details of the design and how it attaches to the front-end?  I did look at the pictures and noticed that you don't appear to use any round-overs at the vent exits.  I'm hoping I can find a way to securely block rectangular vents with round-overs.  Good luck, ehh?

I did it like this and have no issues with air leaks, the port blocks are about 0.2mm smaller than the gap they sit in. This would also work with rounded edges.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/3037204-skhorn-build-3.html#post57499060

[SME]

Is that 0.2 mm with or without the weather stripping?  I would assume the tolerance would be less important with the "weather stripping" in place.

BTW, is that actually weather stripping?  Or is that gasket tape?  I looks more like gasket tape in the picture, which is fine because that seems like the better choice.  I'm also more inclined to put the gasket tape on the port blocks for better aesthetics and to avoid obstructing the vents or cause unwanted flow separation.  I'm not sure if typical gasket tape will be durable enough for frequent addition and removal of the plugs.

I'll keep thinking on it.  Thanks everyone for the input.

[peniku8]

31 minutes ago, SME said:

Is that 0.2 mm with or without the weather stripping?  I would assume the tolerance would be less important with the "weather stripping" in place.

BTW, is that actually weather stripping?  Or is that gasket tape?  I looks more like gasket tape in the picture, which is fine because that seems like the better choice.  I'm also more inclined to put the gasket tape on the port blocks for better aesthetics and to avoid obstructing the vents or cause unwanted flow separation.  I'm not sure if typical gasket tape will be durable enough for frequent addition and removal of the plugs.

I'll keep thinking on it.  Thanks everyone for the input.

The .2mm is without the gasket tape and it already sealed quite well just being wrapped in vinyl because there was so little of a gap. And yes, it's not weather stripping (apparently?). I'm not very faimilar with these items so I have no clue what the difference is (on top of which I'm not a native English speaker, which makes it just a tad harder).

I got another idea for this modular port design, which I'll post in a minute. If you got the tools this might work pretty well, but the port board only being 12mm makes it a little harder (less sturdy).

[peniku8]

If you did it like this, the port block could sit on the area marked in red, which could be lined with gasket tape to make a perfect seal. Maybe you can find hex inserts small enough to screw into the vent braces (make these from 1" ply maybe?) and it would be made to last, easily interchangable and would not wear out.