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TC Sounds 15" sub


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I think I'll take an opportunity to clear some air, no it won't likely, do 120dB @ 20Hz @ 2m with the way Josh does the tests. The data-bass.com results @ 20Hz can clearly show what it takes to do that sort of SPL and the power levels. Only 2 subs we have can do that. However, this sub *might* be coming our way so we can see what it truly can do but I have no details about it other than that.

 

 

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Here's the link over at AVS:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-latest-industry-news/2584137-monoprice-monolith-amplifiers-15-subwoofer-cedia-2016-a.html

 

At first they said 122db at 20hz at 2m, which was quickly reduced to 119db at 2m.

 

After some digging, that's 119db peak, so 1116db according to Josh's testing.

 

I think 116db is still a little too high. 

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Ya, I figured I would take the conversation here as AVS can get a little catty. The number is only relative to the equipment and procedure it was measured with. Thilo did it correctly, but it doesn't mean we'll get the same result here. This highlights the importance of consistence measurement standards.

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The sub does have a huge port and I think there are no corners  in that port so the output at tune should be great. Beyond that, its still a prototype example, things could change... I don't know anything about it tbh.

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The sub does have a huge port and I think there are no corners  in that port so the output at tune should be great. Beyond that, its still a prototype example, things could change... I don't know anything about it tbh.

 

If they would have left it at "122db at 20hz", I think we all would have just assumed 1m peak which should be doable.  After that though they mentioned 2m peak and they seem to think DB.com will confirm that number.  That's when some skepticism entered the picture.

 

I think 112-113db 2m gp rms would be a VERY respectable number and more realistic for a ported 15" with 1.2kw. 

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Agreed. As I mentioned in that thread, I really do think this will be a great subwoofer.

 

Just... not as good as these fantasy numbers. I wish these companies would stop doing that crap. I get it. You gotta do things to stand out from the competition. Guess people forget that you achieve that by just making a good product. Idk, maybe I'm weird.

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I doubt it will get 112-113, a quick model in WinISD suggests even that would be optimistic. It looks like a measurement mistake, not even a conversion mistake. We will see if this thing actually ever gets measured. However, I am guessing it will never see production. Their projected price for the components that this thing is using is a fantasy, just like their CEA-2010 number. I doubt this sub will happen beyond prototype.

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Well...what is the supposed price going to be? I thought I saw $1,200-1,500 listed. That isn't out of the realm of possibility. Depends on how much Monoprice has to pay for the components. I mean, a single LMSR15 was ~$300. We can get 1.2kw plate amps in the $500 range now. Sorta. Cab looks like but it's simple and no frills. The margins might be tight but if they sell enough...

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If they would have left it at "122db at 20hz", I think we all would have just assumed 1m peak which should be doable.  After that though they mentioned 2m peak and they seem to think DB.com will confirm that number.  That's when some skepticism entered the picture.

 

I think 112-113db 2m gp rms would be a VERY respectable number and more realistic for a ported 15" with 1.2kw. 

 

Yes, that's more or less what I expect too.

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Agreed. As I mentioned in that thread, I really do think this will be a great subwoofer.

 

Just... not as good as these fantasy numbers. I wish these companies would stop doing that crap. I get it. You gotta do things to stand out from the competition. Guess people forget that you achieve that by just making a good product. Idk, maybe I'm weird.

 

Well yes, there is made up numbers and there measurement errors too. Thilo is not trying to fool anyone here which is why the sub is coming here. If that number is wrong, then no big deal, we'll get the right one. In the meantime everyone should just chill :)

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Agreed. As I mentioned in that thread, I really do think this will be a great subwoofer.

 

Just... not as good as these fantasy numbers. I wish these companies would stop doing that crap. I get it. You gotta do things to stand out from the competition. Guess people forget that you achieve that by just making a good product. Idk, maybe I'm weird.

 

I had a customer with 4 Mariana 18s send me info on a Procella P18 that mentioned continuous output up to 137 dB, with peak output of 143 dB (he sent me a Youtube and here are the same numbers in a Audioholics "review" - http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/procella-audio-v18-dual-18-inch-subwoofer.  This is with dual 18s and 2,800w.  Oh and the sub is 105dB sensitive.  He asked how my subs compared.  I said, they can't to those fake numbers and proceeded to use Data-Bass with the JTR S2 to discuss more realistic numbers.

 

I had a pretty high opinion of Procella even though I've never heard them but I must say the fake marketing tarnished their brand in my mind.

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Well yes, there is made up numbers and there measurement errors too. Thilo is not trying to fool anyone here which is why the sub is coming here. If that number is wrong, then no big deal, we'll get the right one. In the meantime everyone should just chill :)

 

I don't think the AVS thread got out of control or anything.  I was a little frustrated with Mark, but Scott pulled me back to reality and I chilled out :)

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I had a customer with 4 Mariana 18s send me info on a Procella P18 that mentioned continuous output up to 137 dB, with peak output of 143 dB (he sent me a Youtube and here are the same numbers in a Audioholics "review" - http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/procella-audio-v18-dual-18-inch-subwoofer.  This is with dual 18s and 2,800w.  Oh and the sub is 105dB sensitive.  He asked how my subs compared.  I said, they can't to those fake numbers and proceeded to use Data-Bass with the JTR S2 to discuss more realistic numbers.

 

I had a pretty high opinion of Procella even though I've never heard them but I must say the fake marketing tarnished their brand in my mind.

I don't think those numbers are totally impossible for that kind of sub. Obviously those measurements aren't deep bass measurements, and they are probably mid bass frequencies, maybe 100 Hz or so, and high sensitivity drivers with a high Fs. And remember they are going to be 1 meter measurements- in pro-audio, a lot of these things are quoted at 1 meter. However, since those numbers have no context, they have no meaning. I don't doubt that is a powerful sub though. I do doubt it will ever be reviewed and tested by a third party like data-bass or audioholics. By the way, that is not a 'review' article, it is just a preview article, but all the previews get filed in the review sections. An actual audioholics review would be quite another thing. 

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That's what's stated on the AVS article at least. Amp looks more or less like this also.

That amp looks like just a reconfigured version of this amp. They just took the display piece and built it into the plate. Everything else is the same though. 

 

If I remember right, the LMS-r was a $500 driver, and that is a $500 amp. Of course, monoprice will get much better pricing than that, but when you add a large cabinet, and any kind of nice veneer or finish, that will add up in cost. Then there is the matter of shipping the 200 lbs behemoth. The target $1200 is hilariously unrealistic, and $1500 would seem to be a real stretch. 

 

That all being said, it does look like it would be a nice sub. A good driver, a decent amount of power, and a healthy sized cabinet should add up to good performance. 

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Well yes, there is made up numbers and there measurement errors too. Thilo is not trying to fool anyone here which is why the sub is coming here. If that number is wrong, then no big deal, we'll get the right one. In the meantime everyone should just chill :)

 

Hey. I'm chill. B)

 

I had a customer with 4 Mariana 18s send me info on a Procella P18 that mentioned continuous output up to 137 dB, with peak output of 143 dB (he sent me a Youtube and here are the same numbers in a Audioholics "review" - http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/procella-audio-v18-dual-18-inch-subwoofer.  This is with dual 18s and 2,800w.  Oh and the sub is 105dB sensitive.  He asked how my subs compared.  I said, they can't to those fake numbers and proceeded to use Data-Bass with the JTR S2 to discuss more realistic numbers.

 

I had a pretty high opinion of Procella even though I've never heard them but I must say the fake marketing tarnished their brand in my mind.

 

Ugh. Yeah... sounds about right.

 

I really don't get the appeal of anything Procella. Heard about them for the first time only a couple years ago. Blah blah blah blah Procella Blah blah blah. As if they were the hottest thing out there. Short time later, I get some demos at Cedia with Procella. Wah wah. Nothing special at all. Dinky little speakers with dinky little sound. Yeah, they are higher than average sensitivity and small but...pfft. Whatever. More people than I expect anymore are just impressed with whatever enough people around say are awesome. Shit.

 

But yeah...wow.

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Finally back in civilization and read all of the discussion on this sub. I don't really understand the amount of "intensity" surrounding it. Other than the 122dB at 20Hz at 2m thing, which clearly will not happen, I don't see what the deal is. Looks like the 122dB spec is most likely a 1m peak number regardless of what was quoted which would put it at about 113dB at 20Hz per the testing here. Sounds about right for what it is and that would still be a very strong effort, in the neighborhood of things like the big RBH, The PB13-U the XTZ 3X12 and the Cap1400, which should be its competition anyway. Otherwise it's a vented 15" with a solid driver and amp in a good looking slot ported cab. Price seems to be unknown at this point but $1200-1700 seems to be what is quoted so far which would also be reasonable considering the components and finish. Doesn't look like it's a finished product for sale yet.

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Looks like the 122dB spec is most likely a 1m peak number regardless of what was quoted which would put it at about 113dB at 20Hz per the testing here. Sounds about right for what it is and that would still be a very strong effort, in the neighborhood of things like the big RBH, The PB13-U the XTZ 3X12 and the Cap1400, which should be its competition anyway.

 

That's exactly what was assumed and posted at AVS, but they replied several times to confirm the 122db was a 2m number.  That's why there's skepticism. 

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Hey. I'm chill. B)

 

 

Ugh. Yeah... sounds about right.

 

I really don't get the appeal of anything Procella. Heard about them for the first time only a couple years ago. Blah blah blah blah Procella Blah blah blah. As if they were the hottest thing out there. Short time later, I get some demos at Cedia with Procella. Wah wah. Nothing special at all. Dinky little speakers with dinky little sound. Yeah, they are higher than average sensitivity and small but...pfft. Whatever. More people than I expect anymore are just impressed with whatever enough people around say are awesome. Shit.

 

But yeah...wow.

That is a nearly perfect summation of my view on Procella. I heard them once and didn't see what all the hype was about. I bet they have great margins for custom installers, which may explain the love fest.

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