JTR Captivator S2 Measurements Discussion

[Ricci]

Discussion of the Cap S2 and its measurements should go here.

[Kyle]

Yep this thing is a beast, esp. for a sealed design -- 127dB . I would love to see this thing run up against the G213 or better yet, FunkAudio 18.2 just for fun

[Funk Audio]

Yep this thing is a beast, esp. for a sealed design -- 127dB . I would love to see this thing run up against the G213 or better yet, FunkAudio 18.2 just for fun

 Well if you look at the 21.0 tests, and add three db across the board, you get an idea how the 18.2 would look as they share the same motor structure and amplification(per driver) and proportionally more airspace. So it should be nearly matched for long term output under ~30hz, with similar distortion at max output, lower distortion at just below max as already the 21.0 is very close in distortion given the same output level(115db sweep for 21.0 compared to 105db sweep for S2) under 30hz when both are down a couple sweeps below max. Then it walks away for output over 30hz and distortion over 50hz. Not really a fair comparison though considering the cost. The S2, and proportionally the S1 shows awesome performance for the money under 40hz, the 18.2 shows what it takes to match that performance under 40hz at nearly half the size. Massively more power and cost, is what it takes to push the laws of physics hard up to the wall.

 

Comparing to the 18.0 is a little more fair as they are closer in box size and power per driver, although the 18.0 still costs more. Considering the S1 is said to be basically half the S2, so -5-6db across the board. Factoring that in the S1 and 18.0 look near equal 30hz down for long term output with the 18.0 having a clear advantage over 30hz, as it compares directly to the S2 40hz up. Burst output is very close across the board to the S1, each having a little more than the other in some areas, as well as distortion is comparable 30hz down. The advantage the 18.0 has is over 50hz where distortion and power compression are much lower, lower even than the S2 compared directly at similar outputs in that range.

[Kyle]

 Well if you look at the 21.0 tests, and add three db across the board, you get an idea how the 18.2 would look as they share the same motor structure and amplification(per driver) and proportionally more airspace. So it should be nearly matched for long term output under ~30hz, with similar distortion at max output, lower distortion at just below max as already the 21.0 is very close in distortion given the same output level(115db sweep for 21.0 compared to 105db sweep for S2) under 30hz when both are down a couple sweeps below max. Then it walks away for output over 30hz and distortion over 50hz. Not really a fair comparison though considering the cost. The S2, and proportionally the S1 shows awesome performance for the money under 40hz, the 18.2 shows what it takes to match that performance under 40hz at nearly half the size. Massively more power and cost, is what it takes to push the laws of physics hard up to the wall.

 

Comparing to the 18.0 is a little more fair as they are closer in box size and power per driver, although the 18.0 still costs more. Considering the S1 is said to be basically half the S2, so -5-6db across the board. Factoring that in the S1 and 18.0 look near equal 30hz down for long term output with the 18.0 having a clear advantage over 30hz, as it compares directly to the S2 40hz up. Burst output is very close across the board to the S1, each having a little more than the other in some areas, as well as distortion is comparable 30hz down. The advantage the 18.0 has is over 50hz where distortion and power compression are much lower, lower even than the S2 compared directly at similar outputs in that range.

[Kyle]

 

 Well if you look at the 21.0 tests, and add three db across the board, you get an idea how the 18.2 would look as they share the same motor structure and amplification(per driver) and proportionally more airspace. So it should be nearly matched for long term output under ~30hz, with similar distortion at max output, lower distortion at just below max as already the 21.0 is very close in distortion given the same output level(115db sweep for 21.0 compared to 105db sweep for S2) under 30hz when both are down a couple sweeps below max. Then it walks away for output over 30hz and distortion over 50hz. Not really a fair comparison though considering the cost. The S2, and proportionally the S1 shows awesome performance for the money under 40hz, the 18.2 shows what it takes to match that performance under 40hz at nearly half the size. Massively more power and cost, is what it takes to push the laws of physics hard up to the wall.

 

Comparing to the 18.0 is a little more fair as they are closer in box size and power per driver, although the 18.0 still costs more. Considering the S1 is said to be basically half the S2, so -5-6db across the board. Factoring that in the S1 and 18.0 look near equal 30hz down for long term output with the 18.0 having a clear advantage over 30hz, as it compares directly to the S2 40hz up. Burst output is very close across the board to the S1, each having a little more than the other in some areas, as well as distortion is comparable 30hz down. The advantage the 18.0 has is over 50hz where distortion and power compression are much lower, lower even than the S2 compared directly at similar outputs in that range.

 

 

Ya, there is a huge cost difference between those subs and I think its still interested to see how subs with similar architecture stack up.  The Cap will probably outgun the G213 for 1/3 of the cost but clearly the 18.2 is another level

[Jeff Permanian]

I'll probably have him redo this one. The dsp settings in that unit was a prototype and measurements do not look like the production units (smoother response, LF adj has more effect and limiter set higher). Burst measurements still ran with other, larger sealed subwoofers. 

[Ricci]

Yah killing me Jeff. LOL

[Jeff Permanian]

Get back to work. j/k

[Jeff Permanian]

Comparing to the 18.0 is a little more fair as they are closer in box size and power per driver, although the 18.0 still costs more. Considering the S1 is said to be basically half the S2, so -5-6db across the board. Factoring that in the S1 and 18.0 look near equal 30hz down for long term output with the 18.0 having a clear advantage over 30hz, as it compares directly to the S2 40hz up. Burst output is very close across the board to the S1, each having a little more than the other in some areas, as well as distortion is comparable 30hz down. The advantage the 18.0 has is over 50hz where distortion and power compression are much lower, lower even than the S2 compared directly at similar outputs in that range.

I must be looking at a different product:

[Funk Audio]

I must be looking at a different product:

Sorry just looking at the wrong graph if your referencing where I said "the S1 and 18.0 look near equal 30hz down for long term output with the 18.0 having a clear advantage over 30hz, as it compares directly to the S2 40hz up"

 

That is burst output your showing, in reference to which I said "Burst output is very close across the board to the S1(take 5db off across the board for the S1 as per your comments on the S2 vs S1), each having a little more than the other in some areas"

[mojave]

That is burst output your showing, in reference to which I said "Burst output is very close across the board to the S1(take 5db off across the board for the S1 as per your comments on the S2 vs S1), each having a little more than the other in some areas"

If you take 5 db off across the board for CEA-2010 Max Burst, then the S1 would have the following advantage over the FW18:

10 Hz:    +0.9 dB
12.5 Hz:  +0.7 dB
16 Hz:    +2.1 dB
20 Hz:    +3.7 dB
25 Hz:    +3.5 dB
31.5 Hz:  +2.3 dB
40 Hz:    +1.9 dB
50 Hz:    +1.5 dB
63 Hz:    +0.2 dB
80 Hz:    -0.7 dB
100 Hz:   -0.9 dB

[Funk Audio]

If the 18.0 is run on 240V you gain on average exactly .5db for the burst output, that brings it closer to the peak average. If you look at the "short term averages" chart yes the S1 would still have 0.7db higher burst average 10-125hz, I feel that's "close overall". Yes the S1 has more burst output, and quite a bit at some frequencies, but a little less at others. There are more aspects to consider than just burst output too, for example long term output average 10-125hz for the 18.0 on 120V would be almost identical to the S1, and on 240V about 1db higher. The S1, and S2 as this thread is for are great subs and the tests show it.

 

 

If you take 5 db off across the board for CEA-2010 Max Burst, then the S1 would have the following advantage over the FW18:

10 Hz:    +0.9 dB
12.5 Hz:  +0.7 dB
16 Hz:    +2.1 dB
20 Hz:    +3.7 dB
25 Hz:    +3.5 dB
31.5 Hz:  +2.3 dB
40 Hz:    +1.9 dB
50 Hz:    +1.5 dB
63 Hz:    +0.2 dB
80 Hz:    -0.7 dB
100 Hz:   -0.9 dB

[Jeff Permanian]

Data-Bass tested 120v versions of the JTR powered subwoofers. We offer 240V amplifiers are well that can deliver a little more.

[Jeff Permanian]

The RS2 (reference sealed) has replaced the S2 which features all new, ultra low distortion and inductance drivers with improved sound quality and increased midbass.