NWCgrad Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Luke is getting ready to test and XLS amp, will have data soon. While not world class, the XLS amps are much better than Dayton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 Luke is getting ready to test and XLS amp, will have data soon. While not world class, the XLS amps are much better than Dayton. I've been waiting for someone to bench one for sure! A pair of XLS 1500's bridged or even 2000 would be possible. Its the highpass at 20hz that has me concerned, but no ones got data on how that changes sub measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 I've read conflicting information about whether there really is a 20hz HPF built into the XLS amps. Years ago I did a frequency response comparison between the XLS 2500, Crest CC5500, and a Sanway FP14000 on my Ghorns: Sanway/CC5500 are the red/green lines, and the XLS is the blue. That funky response in the low 20s for the XLS went away after the volume was bumped up a few DB. The XLS was down ~1.5db at 10hz compared to the others, but that's not horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 The Crown K2 is interesting and provides a very decent amount of wattage. Would this amp suffice info were to eventually end up with two? So would a single HST-15 do decent with the K2? Definitely looks more legit than the Daytons. I don't know how much it rolls off <20Hz. It would probably do the job with 1 HST-15. With 2 drivers you would be limited with how much EQ boost you could apply down low. The K1 and K2's have some issues with bad caps throwing the amp into protection on startup. I believe it is because there are no fans in the unit and temps inside the chassis stay high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgage Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 While its rated for 2 ohm loads, I just dont know if I would trust it to run that load 24/7 365. Beast Audio runs his Peavey IPR2-7500 and Crest Prolite 7.5s at 2 ohms and has for a few years at least (IPR2). And he beats on those amps, he was constantly running into the amps protection last weekend at his GTG where he was trying to take the house down. You'd definitely have the fans turning on at 2 ohms but you'd be using them the way they're meant to be used. But if you want to drive a sports car and not take it out of 3rd gear, that's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgage Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 While its rated for 2 ohm loads, I just dont know if I would trust it to run that load 24/7 365. Beast Audio runs his Peavey IPR2-7500 and Crest Prolite 7.5s at 2 ohms and has for a few years at least (IPR2). And he beats on those amps, he was constantly running into the amps protection last weekend at his GTG where he was trying to take the house down. You'd definitely have the fans turning on at 2 ohms but you'd be using them the way they're meant to be used. But if you want to drive a sports car and not take it out of 3rd gear, that's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Beast Audio runs his Peavey IPR2-7500 and Crest Prolite 7.5s at 2 ohms and has for a few years at least (IPR2). And he beats on those amps, he was constantly running into the amps protection last weekend at his GTG where he was trying to take the house down. You'd definitely have the fans turning on at 2 ohms but you'd be using them the way they're meant to be used. But if you want to drive a sports car and not take it out of 3rd gear, that's on you. I do want to point out, however, that the IPR2-7500/Pro-Lite 7.5 cannot deliver full power at 2ohm with both channels driven. Brandon found this out early on, and ended up dividing his (2) 2ohm loads across two separate amps. If you look at my testing of the Pro-Lite 7.5 I confirmed this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Beast Audio runs his Peavey IPR2-7500 and Crest Prolite 7.5s at 2 ohms and has for a few years at least (IPR2). And he beats on those amps, he was constantly running into the amps protection last weekend at his GTG where he was trying to take the house down. You'd definitely have the fans turning on at 2 ohms but you'd be using them the way they're meant to be used. But if you want to drive a sports car and not take it out of 3rd gear, that's on you. Without a dedicated 20 or 30 amp outlet the performance would already be compromised no? I couldnt pull the full 2 ohm wattage for both channels at the same time, or am I missing something? To go with your sports car analogy isnt it like putting 87 octane in it. It will run but not as fast as it would w 98 octane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Without a dedicated 20 or 30 amp outlet the performance would already be compromised no? I couldnt pull the full 2 ohm wattage for both channels at the same time, or am I missing something? To go with your sports car analogy isnt it like putting 87 octane in it. It will run but not as fast as it would w 98 octane. Not exactly. There are two separate things to consider: (1) the amp rating of your outlet; (2) voltage drop on the line due to line sag. Your outlet rating is based on electrical codes and is dictated by the diameter of the (hopefully copper) wire run to it and the rating of the circuit breaker installed. The wire diameter is very important for safety because thinner wire has lower resistance per unit length and will therefore generate more heat per unit length per amp that flows through it. As wire gets hotter, its resistance goes up, which causes even more heat generation that can lead to a run-away condition that can cause fires. The diameter of wire required by code for a certain amp rating is chosen to be large enough to prevent that run-away condition provided the rating is not exceeded. The circuit breaker is there to protect the line from fault conditions that cause excessive current draw. Properly functioning household circuit breakers may trip if more than 80% of the rated current is drawn for an extended period of time. However, they allow larger amounts of power to be drawn for short periods of time. IIRC, 2-3X rated amp draw for 5 seconds is pretty reasonable to sustain without the breaker tripping. This is to account for various appliances that have high in-rush currents upon being started or plugged in. For example, many A/C motors draw a huge amount of power (way more than the outlet rating) as they begin to spin. Likewise, a power amp may draw a lot more current than its nameplate states for a short period of time. However, to pass safety testing, the amp must throttle it's current draw to 80% of the nameplate rating after some minimum time duration. (I'm not familiar with the specifics, but I believe amps often throttle sooner than necessary for the circuit rating in order to avoid short-term overheating). Note that nothing really stops you from running an amp rated for 30A on a 15A line. Neither the amp nor the electrical wiring "know" each others' ratings. Furthermore, nothing stops that amp from pulling 30A or even more for short bursts of time as would be typical in home theater use. If for some reason the high power demand is sustained for long enough, it's possible that it will trip your 15A breaker whereas the amp should throttle before tripping a 30A breaker. Apart from these considerations running a 30A amp on a 15A line is theoretically an increased safety hazard because if the breaker fails to activate, the amp could pull enough current for long enough to melt the wires and start a fire. Then there's line sag. Line sag occurs as a consequence of the cumulative contribution of resistance across the line. Whereas diameter of the wire is the primary consideration for safety rating an electrical circuit, line sag is affected by length as well as diameter. The longer the line, the higher its resistance. The more current that flows across the line, the greater the voltage drop. If voltage drops too low, it can reduce the output of the amp or cause it to go into protection mode. To avoid line sag, keep the run short or increase the diameter of the wire. If your wire is thick enough to meet the code requirement for the rated current of your amp, then I doubt you would see significant line sag unless your run was very long. At the same time, a 15A circuit could easily provide full burst power to a "30A rated" amp without significant line sag if the run was short enough, but to do so is inadvisable because of the safety considerations described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thank you for that explanation. That helps me understand things a big better. The main thing I'm not sure of is this. I have ALL my HT gear on this same circuit. Forget the small stuff like some lights/ceiling fan, etc. I have all the following big ticket items on this line: B&K 200.5 dedicated amp - powers front 5 speakers - on all the time Panasonic 60ST30 - plasma TV, on 24/7 - on all the time HTPC w 430 watt PSU - on all the time Denon 4100x - on all the time (not driving any speakers though) APC H15 - all but the B&K connected to this unit Misc small power items: Xbox One, Squeezebox Classic, Netgear 8 port switch, 120mm fans x 2, Uverse DVR, Asus access point. Given the current draw there, my main wonder is even if I can pull 30amps short term from the outlet, given I'm using some of the existing capability for those items above, how much can I actually pull short term. Does that make sense? The main thing that eats up power besides the plasma is the B&K which is rated for 375 x 5 @ 4 ohms and a max current draw of 17.5 amps. Link to B&K spec's below http://www.bkcomp.com/products/amplifiers/index-tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=14&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=9&cHash=eb183f4201.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just because an amplifier utilizes protection circuitry that prevents catastrophic failure when driven into low impedance does not mean the amplifier is 2 ohm stable. The amp continually going into protection is the sure sign that it is unstable under those conditions and the cause should be immediately determined and remedied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Your outlet rating is based on electrical codes and is dictated by the diameter of the (hopefully copper) wire run to it and the rating of the circuit breaker installed. The wire diameter is very important for safety because thinner wire has lower resistance per unit length and will therefore generate more heat per unit length per amp that flows through it. As wire gets hotter, its resistance goes up, which causes even more heat generation that can lead to a run-away condition that can cause fires. The diameter of wire required by code for a certain amp rating is chosen to be large enough to prevent that run-away condition provided the rating is not exceeded. Did you mean to type 'higher' or am I tired and getting things back to front in my head? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlah384 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 My inuke 6000dsp constantly tripped a dedicated 15a breaker in my new const home. Godzilla was unwatchable at higher volume levels. After awhile, I got pissed and ran two 10ga lines each with a 30a breaker... I might convert one to 240v if I get a clone or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Did you mean to type 'higher' or am I tired and getting things back to front in my head? lol Yes, I did mean higher. Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just this morning I received an email from PE technical support about the spa1000. I need a HPF for a ported sub I'm building (I normally am a sealed guy also, so normally don't want a HPF either). They said "No, this amp has a low pass filter only built in". Now, is PEtech support reliable? I dunno. I too thought I had read in some Dayton manual somewhere that it did indeed has a HPF, but I now can't find it. And the amp has been updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just this morning I received an email from PE technical support about the spa1000. I need a HPF for a ported sub I'm building (I normally am a sealed guy also, so normally don't want a HPF either). They said "No, this amp has a low pass filter only built in". Now, is PEtech support reliable? I dunno. I too thought I had read in some Dayton manual somewhere that it did indeed has a HPF, but I now can't find it. And the amp has been updated. There are a couple DIFFERENT models of this amp. SPA1000 - (Note the P in the name) plate amp, what your talking about. I also see no reference to a high-pass built in, but I swear there was one that was around 17hz. HPSA1000 - rackmount, replaced by the SA1000. Non defetable highpass, also benched spec's didnt match at all with listed specs SA1000 - what I have - rackmount, HAS a highpass switch In your case, it might warrant a email to Dayton to double check... Dayton Audio 705 Pleasant Valley Dr. Springboro, OH 45066 937-743-8248 info@daytonaudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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