Beastaudio's 2015 NC Get Together...

[SME]

Wow!  Are do of all of ya live on the east coast or something?

 

Here's a perfect example: Dave's Marianna playing the chopper scene from LS. If you only examined the SL comparo of digital to mic'd at the seats, you'd walk away saying that the sub clocked around 30% THD of the 6 Hz fundamental. But, having the linear graph of the response at the mic to examine along with the comparo graphs, you see that H1 is down -7dB while H2 is boosted +5dB (a feature of Brandon's room at the main LP) at the mic. The details matter and having the details at your disposal is so cool.

 

 

 

This is a very interesting assessment.  His room is essentially amplifying the distortion by 12 dB, so the sub is probably producing only 7.5%  2nd harmonic.  Likewise, if the sub was actually producing 20% 2nd harmonic, the room would amplify it to 80%.  On top of that, the decay time for that 2nd harmonic is likely higher, and EQ can't do anything about either of these problems.  At some point, that distortion becomes audible, which means that THD *does* matter for subs, even when it's fairly low.  However, one can also argue that most of the time, the fundamental sees more room gain than the harmonics do, so that *most of the time* distortion doesn't matter.

 

Here is what it will look like and the back will have RCA in and RCA and XLR out as well as the wall wart barrel jack.

 

The case is brushed anodized aluminum, as are the knobs. It's a top quality little piece and, as we like to say in the development lab... ANALOG RULES! The Dash V will be available soon at <$200. The cases and parts are on their way now. The web site has been completely redone with links to a secure shopping cart and will reflect the Dash V's availability when officially launched.

 

This looks like it will hit a sweet spot for a lot of bass enthusiasts, especially if you are able to maintain availability at that price point.

 

I can definitely see it being a compelling alternative to the various MiniDSP offerings, all of which have substantial drawbacks.  Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed by what I have from MiniDSP, and look forward to replacing them with the Motu + PC DSP I'm working on.  But of course, this product is much cheaper than the route I'm taking for those who just want a flatter low-end response don't care about having full-featured multichannel DSP capability.

 

Oh yeah, I'm happy to see that roll-off on the Marantz.  Chances are good that my Denon has the same response, but I won't know until I measure it.

[3ll3d00d]

 

I've been very curious of the AV7702's ability to handle high levels of re-directed bass without clipping the signal for a while now. I was also curious to see if the OPPO (which has been proven to clip movie tracks with hot re-directed bass) http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/379-maxmercys-wcs-test-disc-beta-and-an-o-scope/?p=6640

would end up passing the clipped signal out of the HDMI port digitally since the problem is apparently in the OPPO's digital section. I was relieved to find out that it didn't and if you attenuate the Marantz AVR's sub out or MVL by at least 10.5dB you will be for sure safe against clipping in a worst case scenario for a 7.1 track with re-directed bass.

 

That is a peak voltage reading isn't it? i.e. equates to ~4.2Vrms. If so this equates to 5dB down on the peak clean signal that my marantz av7005 can generate down the xlr sub out. In my case this is without bass mgmt and 7.1 wcs is about 5dB higher than the usual 10dB headroom. The FR looks the same as well.

 

The reason I comment is that all, that I have noticed, D&M models seem to have the same specs on their analogue stage. This seems like a bit of evidence to suggest all their models have a similar capability.

 

Alternatively I might be spotting a pattern where none exists perhaps if someone measured a midrange denon and it looked the same then that would make the case more strongly.

[Ricci]

They work fine together as long as you are careful in setting up your gain stages not to overload your amp's input with too much boost. 

 

 

Speaking of the new unit. Does it have RCA in only but both RCA and XLR out? Seemed like that's what you said but not sure. What's the maximum clean voltage out of it on the balanced and unbalanced lines?

[Infrasonic]

Did anyone take pictures? I didnt. I don't remember anyone else taking any.

 

Scott you home yet bro?

 

 

Like I said at the other place...a great story trumps a mediocre pic/video anytime...

 

JSS

 

 

 This bums me out. I always bring my Nikon to these events. But, this time I thought 'Man, all these guys have hi-rez video/still pics cameras on their maxi-pads, so why bring the camera rig?'

 

I can't believe no one took vid/pics.

 

So much to post on about this meet. I can't do it. Haha! It was so awesome but this was my one big regret of the entire weekend. I did take a couple of pics but half of them were of your RF driver, Josh and the rest were of Brandon's Gene Autry dvd. LOL!!!!

 

I wish we got AT LEAST a group photo. Maybe in front of B's front wall, even. Damn!!! Well... that settles it. Let's do this again, same crew REAL soon! Just for the pics. Haha.

 

Man... it was SO good to finally meet you guys. I wish we didn't have to be so far apart and could do this more often. I envy you that are closer or at least within a reasonable drive away. That cross country flight is brutal. But even so... I can't wait to do it again.

 

Brandon, you system is the bomb, yo!

 

 

Dave... thanks, man. It was a real pleasure to finally meet you after all this time. Let's be sure to not wait so long again before the next time. BTW, you're gonna have those for <$200? Waahhhh!?!?!? Hit me up when those go into production. I'll take two or three. Seriously.

 

I have so much more to say but I'm getting the swamp of shit at work. I'll try and catch up later.

[Ricci]

I wish we got AT LEAST a group photo. Maybe in front of B's front wall, even. Damn!!! Well... that settles it. Let's do this again, same crew REAL soon! Just for the pics. Haha.

 

No doubt.

 

I've only been to like 4 real GTG's but what I remember from most of them is that there is too much time spent switching equipment and trying to get everything readjusted so everyone can listen to it. That really seems to stress people out and take a lot of fun out of the day. You NEVER get as much done as you think you can. There was some equipment switching of course but I felt like this one focused more on just enjoying what was on hand and was much faster and loose. Too much structure has killed a few of them I went to. That's partly why I stopped going to them besides just being balls out uber busy all the time. When I go to one of these I want to be relaxed and chill and just do whatever whenever. A few of them had itinerary and paperwork. F'That! This one was how it should be done.

[Infrasonic]

Definitely. I loved the run-by-the-seat-of-the-pants feel to the whole gathering. There was so much to do and not enough time though. Like most of these that I go to, as cool as the systems are, I just like to hang out and chat with my buddies.

 

Imagine, Brandon, now trying to "demo" that Dirac system. I know, right?

[NWCgrad]

I bet he has Gene Autry jammed full tilt.

 

I fullyo agree with Ricci that the flow of this GTG was great. No stress on trying to compare a bunch of equipment in minimal time.

[BeastAudio]

Did anyone take pictures? I didnt. I don't remember anyone else taking any.

 

Scott you home yet bro?

 

 

 This bums me out. I always bring my Nikon to these events. But, this time I thought 'Man, all these guys have hi-rez video/still pics cameras on their maxi-pads, so why bring the camera rig?'

 

I can't believe no one took vid/pics.

 

Chrap hit the nail on the head earlier. I think everyone was just having way to much to even think to stop to take pics. I know there are probably a TON of lurkers out there that are a little disappointed about this fact, over here as well as on AVS, but dang man, I know some of the guys got pics of under the screen and some wiring up of stuff.  Where is all that at least? I've got a good one, but I am waiting for an appropriate time for it

 

 

No doubt.

 

I've only been to like 4 real GTG's but what I remember from most of them is that there is too much time spent switching equipment and trying to get everything readjusted so everyone can listen to it. That really seems to stress people out and take a lot of fun out of the day. You NEVER get as much done as you think you can. There was some equipment switching of course but I felt like this one focused more on just enjoying what was on hand and was much faster and loose. Too much structure has killed a few of them I went to. That's partly why I stopped going to them besides just being balls out uber busy all the time. When I go to one of these I want to be relaxed and chill and just do whatever whenever. A few of them had itinerary and paperwork. F'That! This one was how it should be done.

 

Papers? Like business papers? Personal papers?

 

 

 

Yea man, I have done those too for sure. Moar content, less mute. 

 

Definitely. I loved the run-by-the-seat-of-the-pants feel to the whole gathering. There was so much to do and not enough time though. Like most of these that I go to, as cool as the systems are, I just like to hang out and chat with my buddies.

 

Imagine, Brandon, now trying to "demo" that Dirac system. I know, right?

 

I am still having second thoughts on that whole thing. As you all now hopefully realize, there doesn't seem much a point in it anyways...

 

I bet he has Gene Autry jammed full tilt.

 

I fullyo agree with Ricci that the flow of this GTG was great. No stress on trying to compare a bunch of equipment in minimal time.

 

Already got Max on the BEQ version. It'll be the star of the next show. I'm actually thinking of going with a new color scheme downstairs to compliment the colors of Gene's guitar.

 

That just reminded me, dangit we forgot to do the Bass Prank....

[Infrasonic]

Alright... after this Thanksgiving weekend all the people at this gig have to right back to get a group photo, watch the BEQ'd Gene Autry dvd and Bass Prank.

 

I'll get my ticket right now.

[Infrasonic]

Totally forgot but I did get a picture. Got one of MaxMercy while doing the 'war volume' bass stuff from the ScubaSteve demo.

 

 

Gif is accurate.

[NWCgrad]

Here are the photos I have...

From Sa

Maxmercy playing catch

 

Insane car stereo:

 

Setup on Friday:

 

And one for Brandon:

[NWCgrad]

Here are the photos I have...

From Sat, Maxmercy playing catch

 

Setup on Friday:

 

One for Brandon:

 

Insane car stereo:

[tuxedocivic]

Looks like this was a great event. Great gear and great demos too.

[EndersShadow]

Paul mentioned the SEQSS-V (working name: Dash V) earlier in the thread. He designed it because of the volume of requests for a separate SEQSS. Of course, most don't realize that the SEQSS is specific to the BB and Raptor systems and isn't a plug-in solution for other sealed systems. So, Paul decided to design a "variable' SEQSS version that's adaptable to any sealed system.

 

The proto he left with Brandon lacks the case, switch, I/O jacks and knobs (because he wanted Brandon to have one first and show what it can do before the rest of the hardware comes in).

 

Here is what it will look like and the back will have RCA in and RCA and XLR out as well as the wall wart barrel jack.

 

The case is brushed anodized aluminum, as are the knobs. It's a top quality little piece and, as we like to say in the development lab... ANALOG RULES! The Dash V will be available soon at <$200. The cases and parts are on their way now. The web site has been completely redone with links to a secure shopping cart and will reflect the Dash V's availability when officially launched.

 

 

 

 

Ok, please dont flame me here, but how does this device work and what is its purpose with a sealed system?

[BeastAudio]

Ok, please dont flame me here, but how does this device work and what is its purpose with a sealed system?

 

 

Shreds is definitely better equipped to answer but it is an analog filtering device to create custom bass curves L/T's for sealed setups to help you gain extension on the low end. I recon you could even use it to tame any serious bass peaks in your room otherwise, but the original intended use is the former. 

[Infrasonic]

It's like an improved version of the Marchand Bassis. Not used for PEQ and not for taming peaks or dips but a more robust LT system than using shelving filters in a DCX, minidsp, etc.

 

You'll still need a system for PEQ.

 

Paul was kind enough to describe his prototype to me at the meet and my ears perked up pretty good. I'm interested.

[Shredhead]

Speaking of the new unit. Does it have RCA in only but both RCA and XLR out? Seemed like that's what you said but not sure. What's the maximum clean voltage out of it on the balanced and unbalanced lines?

Yeah, I always do RCA in's.  For home theater rack type stuff the only advantage of XLR is the 6dB it adds, if you even need it.  I like to keep that conversion down to once, close to the end of the signal line because of how some manufacturers wire the grounds of their XLRs. 

 

The unit has RCA out and XLR out.  They can both be used at the same time if needed.  The RCA outputs around 16.4V peak, that's 11.6VRMS and XLR outputs about 32.8Vpk, 23.2VRMS with no clipping.  Obviously most people won't need to send that much to their amps so it just means that there is ample headroom. 

[Infrasonic]

Wow. My DCX would like that voltage.

[Shredhead]

That is a peak voltage reading isn't it? i.e. equates to ~4.2Vrms. If so this equates to 5dB down on the peak clean signal that my marantz av7005 can generate down the xlr sub out. In my case this is without bass mgmt and 7.1 wcs is about 5dB higher than the usual 10dB headroom. The FR looks the same as well.

 

The reason I comment is that all, that I have noticed, D&M models seem to have the same specs on their analogue stage. This seems like a bit of evidence to suggest all their models have a similar capability.

 

Alternatively I might be spotting a pattern where none exists perhaps if someone measured a midrange denon and it looked the same then that would make the case more strongly.

Yeah, 4.2VRMS.  It was taken out of the RCA out and I didn't have my usual 20k load that I usually put on the sub output.  That means the load that the AVR saw was the input of my meter which is something like 10 meg ohms.  With a normal load of 10k-25k ohm, the peak value might be down a little from 6Vpk which would make it a perfect 6dB from the peak that your XLR can generate which makes sense because XLR is double the voltage of RCA.  Your theory about the analog stage makes sense.  My buddie has a midrange Denon.  I'll get around to measuring it eventually. 

[EndersShadow]

It's like an improved version of the Marchand Bassis. Not used for PEQ and not for taming peaks or dips but a more robust LT system than using shelving filters in a DCX, minidsp, etc.

 

You'll still need a system for PEQ.

 

Paul was kind enough to describe his prototype to me at the meet and my ears perked up pretty good. I'm interested.

 

So is it similar to doing a Linkwitz transform?  I'm just wondering if it would be something helpful for a system I'm looking a building with dual HST-15's, and if so I want to try and model it in WinISD so I make sure I'm not gonna harm the driver or the amps....

 

And lastly is this something you think a novice would be able to adjust and dial in?

[Shredhead]

Ok, please dont flame me here, but how does this device work and what is its purpose with a sealed system?

It's easier to understand if I can show you.  I'm working on a precise breakdown with graphic illustrations on all of the uses of the Dash V.  When it's posted on Bosso's site I'll hit you up. 

 

At the GTG, I used it as an LT with around 9dB of low end boost.

[Infrasonic]

Yes. Most people use shelving filters built into their digital DSP to do the boost. Paul's system is a proper adjustable LT system.

[EndersShadow]

It's easier to understand if I can show you.  I'm working on a precise breakdown with graphic illustrations on all of the uses of the Dash V.  When it's posted on Bosso's site I'll hit you up. 

 

At the GTG, I used it as an LT with around 9dB of low end boost.

 

 

Yes. Most people use shelving filters built into their digital DSP to do the boost. Paul's system is a proper adjustable LT system.

 

Thanks.  I will hold off on any further questions till after that is posted and I get the chance to digest it.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

At min if its similar to the Basis it looks like it might be a good option for me as I'm hoping to try to get as much boost sub 20hz as I can when I build my sealed setup..

 

Regards

[Shredhead]

At min if its similar to the Basis it looks like it might be a good option for me as I'm hoping to try to get as much boost sub 20hz as I can when I build my sealed setup..

 

If you can send me a graph of the close and listening position mic'd responses for your system from about 2Hz-500Hz, PM me and I'll give you my email.  I can come up with a curve that might best help your subs. 

[Madaeel]

Sorry it took me a day to post but work was bad yesterday. Anywho I took some pics but most of them were crappy. I don't have one of the newer maxi-pads.   I wish we had some but it's not easy getting good shots in a basement anyway. Honestly, you don't get as much time as you think to even take any when you got 20 bass-heads converging on one home. 

 

It was awesome meeting everyone there:

 

Brandon: Thanks again for letting us partake of your customary earthquake testing. Sorry to pay you in stripper ones but at least it was something. Wish I coulda stayed longer.

 

Nick(electrodynamic): Awesome drivers and great talking to you. I loved the BHS's violent 157db they dished out on my body and I want a MkV(assuming that was it)for the wife's convertible. That DS4 looks like a killer deal.

 

Steve(NWCgrad):Great to meet you and talking to you was one of the highlights for me. I hope I get a chance to see you at another meet one day and bs some more.

 

John(MaxMercy):Same goes for you man. Was awesome to finally meet you and hear your stories as well. Those BEQ trailers were f'n insane! 

 

David(dgage):Finally got the chance to hear the 24 and they didn't disappoint. Definitely wouldn't mind having one behind the couch now.  Nice to meet you as well and talk for a little while.

 

Dave(reef):Glad to meet you and talk. Crazy your parents live a couple miles away. Gotta stop by sometime and check out the Raptors.

 

John(ambesolman):One of the few I didn't get a chance to talk to except for but a min but you shared your Soco with me and now we're bro's for life. Next time man. Just found out about the grits and I take that back.

 

Scott:Made it out to the east coast mang! Great to meet you. Of course I learned some things talking to you and wish I coulda picked your brain a little more. We need to do this on your side now.

 

Josh(Ricci):Awesome to meet you too man. We all appreciate what you do and it was great to put a face to the name. I can't wait to see what you think of the 8 Rockford's. It's nice to have bass-head friends.

 

Dave and Paul(bossobass and shreds): Again man it was awesome staying with you guys. Wish I had a couple more days. Paul that baby SEQ is badass. Dave...anytime man.   I hoped the gtg would get your mind off things and it worked. Good times. I'll check in with ya soon. Tell Virginia thanks for the maple cookies and the addiction it created. Those things definitely have crack in them.

 

It was a great time and I forgot a couple guys names but that was only because we try to cram so much listening and bs'ing in one day with 20 guys. We're like a bunch of women at these things. Cept drunk, not hot, women. I can't add more than what was already said. It was a great time and hopefully not the last with you guys. Though we really need some group photos.