lukeamdman Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I make some EQ modifications and was able to conjure up an even better response with almost half the EQ as before. I went from 15 different EQ filters to 8, and the 8th filter is only taming 15-20khz by a few DB, so technically I could get by with only 7 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Wow! You're using eight filters do smooth out your FR through the midrange? Waht? It looks great but damn that's a lot of EQ filters. What's it look like with no filters and just the natural crossover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Wow! You're using eight filters do smooth out your FR through the midrange? Waht? It looks great but damn that's a lot of EQ filters. What's it look like with no filters and just the natural crossover? It's ugly. Remember, it's a coaxial with a minimal crossover mainly just used for padding. So it's 8 bands of EQ to tame two different drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Still sounds like a lot. Coax will have some rough patches in the response but that's the catch for getting a perfectly coherent "point source" of bandwidth. Mind posting the naked response? If you'd rather not show it, I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Still sounds like a lot. Coax will have some rough patches in the response but that's the catch for getting a perfectly coherent "point source" of bandwidth. Mind posting the naked response? If you'd rather not show it, I understand. I'm so embarrassed...lol Here's the EQ vs. no EQ response Here's what I'm doing with the 8th band of EQ for the top end: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 FWIW the latest rew beta has an implementation of frequency dependent windowing in it. If you are taking in room measurements to deal with linearising the response of the driver then this is a good way to see that clearly. Fractional octave smoothing, without windowing, is not so useful for that purpose IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 FWIW the latest rew beta has an implementation of frequency dependent windowing in it. If you are taking in room measurements to deal with linearising the response of the driver then this is a good way to see that clearly. Fractional octave smoothing, without windowing, is not so useful for that purpose IME. I'll check it out. If I add gating, which I'm not in any of my graphs, it only makes the response smoother in a few areas. No dramatic changes at all when measuring over 500hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm so embarrassed...lol Here's the EQ vs. no EQ response Looks like a difference in gain/level between the two components that could be fixed easy without EQ. You're padding it does but are you using a passive network for the mid/hi cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'll check it out. If I add gating, which I'm not in any of my graphs, it only makes the response smoother in a few areas. No dramatic changes at all when measuring over 500hz. the 3-7kHz range looks a bit funky, do you know what is going on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 the 3-7kHz range looks a bit funky, do you know what is going on there? Those measurements are at the LP a good 15ft away, so the room, which is mostly untreated, is taking its toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 You planning on putting up some treatment? If so, use diffusion at the first reflection and absorption at the contra-lateral reflection points on the side walls. Next step is either treating the front and rear of the room. Then the ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I don't see why 8 bands is a lot for this speaker... Seems reasonable to me. I agree though, getting some room free data would focus your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKtheater Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 The uneq'd response looks pretty good, how do the two compare in sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Good grief...even with ear plugs that was an experience! https://youtu.be/54zc6hsVmd4 There was room left in the tank boys...that was the Othorns doing 80% of the work, and the Ghorns at maybe half excursion. I could have bumped the trim on the G's for maybe 1-2db more. I did get one small flicker of clip lights on the SP2-12,000, but I could squeeze a few more DB out of it. The damage report from upstairs: One broken picture frame Washer and dryer needed to be moved back into place 3 drawers in the kitchen had opened themselves (never happened before) The cutting board was also extended (never happened before) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 BTW, that was with the mic being held exactly where my head is typically at the LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SME Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Heh, just wait until tomorrow when your neighbors give you their damage reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carp Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What do the monster mains put out at 26 hz? I think I remember you saying the subs had a 10 db advantage so the mains could hit 132 db's at 26 hz? Haha, I love it. I'm not sure if I can hit 132db's at 26 hz with 9 18's and 4 15's. My guess would be no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Those measurements are at the LP a good 15ft away, so the room, which is mostly untreated, is taking its toll. I'd be slightly surprised if the room were contributing so strongly at those frequencies. I guess the speakers are too big to lug around but a ~1-1.5m measurement in room with an appropriately sized frequency dependent window would make an interesting comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What do the monster mains put out at 26 hz? I think I remember you saying the subs had a 10 db advantage so the mains could hit 132 db's at 26 hz? Haha, I love it. I'm not sure if I can hit 132db's at 26 hz with 9 18's and 4 15's. My guess would be no... That gap might be more than 10db. Also, 25hz is right in the crossover region of all four horns, so I have more headroom there than anywhere else. I'll run the same scene with the mains running full range and the subs turned off to see what they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd be slightly surprised if the room were contributing so strongly at those frequencies. I guess the speakers are too big to lug around but a ~1-1.5m measurement in room with an appropriately sized frequency dependent window would make an interesting comparison. The wizard, tuxedocivic, will be at my place tonight. If he's up for it we'll run all kinds of measurements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Good grief...even with ear plugs that was an experience! One broken picture frame Washer and dryer needed to be moved back into place 3 drawers in the kitchen had opened themselves (never happened before) The cutting board was also extended (never happened before) Fuck yeah. I lol'd @ "never happend before". You're doing it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan611 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Sounds like a blast Luke. How'd it go tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuxedocivic Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I met Luke and his wife last night. Oh and I personally met his horns, they touched me in places that felt so bad it was good, if you know what I mean His setup was very impressive. I don't think I told him that though I was so caught up in evaluating the speakers and taking in the subwoofer experience, that I didn't really comment on the good. Sorry about that Luke. I was also talking like a drunk idiot by the end of it. Over tired from traveling and probably a little bit of a mushy brain from the Pulse server room scene Anyways, very nice setup. On music, bass didn't sound overly hot at all. For the movies he cranked the subs and ya, it was crazy hot. Which was fun for the experience and we had fun playing bass crazy scenes. I laughed on a John Wick scene when he smacks a guy with the butt of his machine gun and the whole room literally shook. When we returned the dials to "normal" the bass felt almost non-existent because I was conditioned for such hot bass. My ears/brain eventually settled back into their normal response. I think couldn't help but geek out. We grabbed a response from where I was sitting and saw a few things that prompted further investigation. There was a little 2 or 3db nub around 1khz (I thought I had been hearing a bit of midrange glare around 1500hz, so I wanted to explore this) and a few ripples in the response that I thought could be improved. We then took a variety of nearfield measurements that revealed the same things. Now, to be clear, I was looking at very minor "problems". I'm not sure my tired bass brain explained this to Luke properly, but he had this speaker well dialed, I just want him to take these expensive components to the next level. We didn't make many changes, and we didn't listen to them, but hopefully Luke has something to work from and try things. And if it doesn't help, he can go back to what he had. We eventually stripped the tweeter of all dsp and took a nearfield (about 0.5m) with a 8ms gate time. This was cause we kept hearing some glare in the sweeps that we narrowed down to the 2-3khz range. We saw that there's a very high Q shelf at 3500hz about 7db tall. Also saw the lower limit of the CD was right around 400hz dropping off very steep at 380hz. We talked about working out that shelf and where to XO. Then we left it there. Had to go home. I didn't get home until 12 and my kids were up at 6. There was lots more to say, but I'm dead tired. Thanks for having me Luke. Hopefully I'll be out again around Christmas to hear them even more refined. Thank your wife for letting me steal your evening and wake up your household Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeamdman Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Ryan is one smart cookie. I learned so much last night I couldn't even sleep. My approach to measuring treble has taken a 180, and this morning I completely re-calibrated the new mains. The results are shocking. More to come on this later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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