Jump to content

BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3


Madaeel

Recommended Posts

Thanks for the SL caps! :)

 

I really can't recall that scene, which probably is just indicative of the fact I'm not doing it justice either :D lol

 

 

Current signal chain is:

 

Panasonic BDT110 (cheap BD player) >

Onkyo 818 with Audyssey XT32 >

Cerwin Vega CV5000 amp >

2No. PPSL dual SI HT18 DIY subs stacked in one corner (as that's the only place they can go, boooo...)

 

 

When I sort my life out and finally measure the room properly / find and adjust my mic sensitivity file (currently under-reading, seemingly) / chop up some cables for connections to/from the miniDSP / add the miniDSP into the chain and EQ it properly, while attempting to get my head round what level I'm aiming for :ph34r: the signal chain will be:

 

Panasonic BDT110 (cheap BD player) >

Onkyo 818 with Audyssey XT32 >

MiniDSP >

Cerwin Vega CV5000 amp >

2No. PPSL dual SI HT18 DIY subs stacked in one corner

 

 

I'm still keeping an eye out for a reasonably priced Oppo 105 but they are ££££ :blink: and I'm not sure if the 103 'would do' - I understand the 105 has better internals but how much better?  Double the price better? :wacko:  Surely the 103's roll-off will be similar?

 

I believe I've measured the 818 as having minimal roll-off when doing a loop-back measurement in REW, but I need to post the graphs up to check.  If so, there wouldn't seem much point in swapping for the 105/103 and removing the 818? (unless I get a good deal?)  I have seen and felt cone movement from around 4Hz when running REW sweeps through the 818's front USB port from the computer, so it looks reasonably promising...  :wacko:

 

At some point I will have to work out how to measure the Panasonic BD player too, if it's even possible, as if the 818 has minimal roll off and the CV5000 is relatively shallow roll-off (I will have to await Notnyt's amp tests as I will probably fry stuff if I try to measure the CV5000 :lol: lol) my current lack of ULF is either down to the BD player or Audyssey not lifting the bottom end as it's below its capabilities...

 

 

Thanks for putting up with my vacillating / procrastination, it gives @3ll3d00d a break! :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

By all means, measure the signal chain. That info is always much appreciated. You can measure the amp by plugging the output (speaker) jacks to the input jack of your measurement rig. Just turn the gain down to minus infinity and ease it up until you have the equivalent voltage to line level. IOW, you can measure the entire signal chain in one shot.

 

Also, properly shaping the signal to affect a frequency response on the sealed subs that mates with your room gain transfer function is imperative as well. Most every sealed sub will fall under the room gain radar in native form.

 

I'm going to do some measurements to show just that this weekend. I'll post them here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never watched ST with my new setup so I watched the whole movie last night.  I just want to say although it does not have sustained bass like TIH or WOTW the dynamics and low end are second to none.  There are scenes where people are talking and you can feel the ship.  The scene mentioned above is sweet!  Like all the great bass movies even when the 30hz stuff hits it sounds and feels so deep and a lower tone than filtered tracks, this is the part I always try to explain.  Even during the air plane roll in FOTP although it is centered around 32 hz it feels and sounds deep because it is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By all means, measure the signal chain. That info is always much appreciated. You can measure the amp by plugging the output (speaker) jacks to the input jack of your measurement rig. Just turn the gain down to minus infinity and ease it up until you have the equivalent voltage to line level. IOW, you can measure the entire signal chain in one shot.

 

Also, properly shaping the signal to affect a frequency response on the sealed subs that mates with your room gain transfer function is imperative as well. Most every sealed sub will fall under the room gain radar in native form.

 

I'm going to do some measurements to show just that this weekend. I'll post them here.

Right, some graphs posted here:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/179-push-pull-slot-loaded-quad-si-ht18s/page-3?&p=5758

 

Still need work, as 3ll3d00d has already told me :lol: but I'm hoping the close-mic response shape is at least accurate, if not in level.  Looks like room gain starts around 25Hz, as the listening position graphs don't drop so steeply as the close-mic measurement??

 

Anyway, happy to be told "come back later when you've done it properly :lol: so don't be shy... lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yah between the Onkyo and the CV I doubt you'll get anything outta that scene. Granted my mic is no ACO, but it's flat to 5hz, and I have none of that hot pink mess Dave does at 5hz and below, which is why I had no idea what the hell Dave was talking about when he mentioned it either. That's prolly a combination of of the mic and my roll-off but either way I need the Oppo to do that scene justice.

 

I know the 103 doesn't have the SABRE dac's the 105 does so that could make a big difference. Who knows what else is changed inside. Only one way to find out though. I'm sure they have a refund policy anyway. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm presuming the 103 is the one that looks half empty :D lol

 

It does look like they are very different.  That's quite annoying...

 

 

 

On a more positive note, I watched Star Trek at -11 last night for the first time since getting both subs in as the missus was out and so were the neighbours - the power amp for the main speakers makes it a lot easier to listen to louder volumes, which is good and bad...

 

Even without optimised signal chain / decent ULF, there was a lot more bass than I remember - I am pretty sure I am getting a lot more extension than when I had the ported SVS in 16hz tune :) and Sealed is nice and tight, which is great for the sonic booms / warps!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't plan to use the analog section, they are identical.

 

You've gotta have DACs somewhere in the chain, so why would anyone not use the analog section of the BD105? The analog section was the single reason I ditched the Onk AVR.

 

The downsides are that the 105 has only a global crossover and no on board EQ or "auto" EQ. Otherwise, the SQ and sig chain are gonna be extremely hard to beat at anywhere near $1500 for a player/preamp-processor.

 

The ATMOS matrix may be a game-changer down the road, but then there will no doubt be a new OPPO model to meet that demand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HDMI. No analog.

 

Not everyone will use an OPPO as a pre/pro. If you are, the 105 is a great choice.

 

 

And for me: Atmos > flat response under 10hz

 

Anyway, I'm just remarking on that the 103 is an excellent player. I know the discussion has been about signal chain though so just ignore me. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We were discussing it as a pre/pro so yah as Dave said we would be using analog outs. Dave uses it as his and has arguably the flattest response of anyone on the forums. The ST ship roll scene brought the subject up again. I'm sure the 103 is great but we're just saying the 105 is on another level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HDMI. No analog.

 

Not everyone will use an OPPO as a pre/pro. If you are, the 105 is a great choice.

 

 

And for me: Atmos > flat response under 10hz

 

Anyway, I'm just remarking on that the 103 is an excellent player. I know the discussion has been about signal chain though so just ignore me. :P

 

Are you already ATMOS equipped?  What do you have on the ceiling that can ever keep up with that LCR?

 

JSS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I get that part, but you can't run HDMI to your speakers. I was using an Onk AVR for the DACs. The 105 gave flatter response and superior SQ. It was a no-brainer for me.

 

You're right. I was just remarking that the 103 is an excellent player in general.

 

Are you already ATMOS equipped?  What do you have on the ceiling that can ever keep up with that LCR?

 

JSS

 

Lol! Nothing. Well, I was going to get a ton of the Volt 10's which should keep up fine enough but I'm just going to use some gear I have now and save $1,000 til I feel like upgrading again. Will be preparing my room for 7.1.6 surround. No Atmos yet but I may cave and buy something this summer. Waiting for DTS:X to be included but I know some things about it (can't say online) and may end up not getting the first generation stuff of that. Idk. I'm itching for a new AVR even though my current one is totally fine and works/sounds great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's always best to buy 1-2 generations in of any new technology, or otherwise it's firmware update after firmware update, as consumers have become the QC in most electronic devices nowadays....

 

7.1.6?  I thought home ATMOS was 7.1.4 maximum.

 

Long line arrays are probably a VERY good ceiling speaker choice for 7.1.2 (no matter where the seating is, if it is near to the middle of the room, sound will always come from 'above left', or 'above right'), not so for 7.1.greater, but then in a small room, anything larger than 7.1.2 will be a very different presentation depending on seating location, with one definitive sweet spot.

 

I just wonder if 7.1.x will be like 3D.....sounds awesome in theory, but costs become higher for the presentation.  I wonder if it will become ubiquitous, as most BDs are still 5.1, and 7.1 is FINALLY taking a good hold....

 

The leap from Stereo/ProLogic to 5.1 was much greater than 5.1 to 7.1, IMO.  7.1 recordings do envelop more, and are more immersive, but a well-set-up 5.1 system still sounds very good.  I wonder if the leap from 7.1 to 7.1.x will be larger than 5.1 to 7.1.  If not, I will not upgrade for a long time.  I just got 7.1 capability myself.

 

JSS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9.1.6 will eventually get here. Not too long from now. Sometime this year we will likely see 9.1.4 systems supported. I'll set up so I'm ready for 7.1.6 and might actually force with external decoders. I can talk about that elsewhere. I don't want to keep this thread off topic anymore than I have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yah Scott stop with that speaker crap in my bass thread! :P

 

Actually I would like to hear an Atmos or it's equivalent set-up. Interested to see what differences it makes since I have 7.1 and only occasionally notice rear surround effects.

 

Btw Josh, Kyle, or anyone know if they changed the limit on size of attachments?? I went to post some speclab graphs and it said the file was too large. :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently was sent some measurements with the bottom frequency at 10 Hz. The sender commented that his room had no room gain. The graph had 2 traces, 1) close mic and 2) at the seats.

 

I decided to make some similar measurements, but to make them full bandwidth, and to compare the naked vs signal-shaped version of the same system. The reason is to show what happens when you build a naked sealed system with no signal shaping to emphasize the need to properly shape the response to mate the system with the room. And how utterly annoying it is when someone compares that naked system to a ported version in WinISD, or some such simulator software.

 

The advantage of a sealed system is that there is no 'tune' below which you cannot shape the signal. It's kinda silly to build a multi-driver sealed system with big power and 8-16 18" drivers and just plug-n-play it without the final step.

 

Here's the Raptor naked, close mic and at the seats:

 

da86ba4f42faefa5000a7b7ba4e9390c.png

 

Now, if that graph were cut off at 10 Hz, or had the measurement been taken in a room that doesn't have my 6 Hz resonance, it would certainly appear at first inspection that the "room has no room gain". The in-room response is (+/-) 5dB, 25 Hz-100 Hz.

 

Here's the same close-mic and at-the-seats traces after proper signal shaping:

 

ec0e40b69e4f091ba7b84f750652c38a.png

 

The +10dB signal shaped curve shows the +10dB increase at 10 Hz, but the increase below that is well above +10dB, in fact, it's 22-24dB all the way down to DC. In-room frequency response has improved to (+/-) 3dB, 3.5 Hz-100 Hz.

 

The moral of the story: don't count your WinISD dB before signal shaping hatches them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is awesome Dave. It's also cool to see how much more you get down low the farther you are from the sub. That is one massive difference.

 

Along those lines I think you'd appreciate the X:FC graphs I want to post. I was only running 5db hot to make the graphs more accurate, it wasn't easy btw, and the graph looks pretty badass down to 3hz! As soon as I figure out how to post em now since it said the files were too large. It was pretty cool just to see the SEQSS and of course the whole system do it's thang. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awesome stuff. XM:1st class is brutal. Those caps are with the system turned down??? :lol:

 

I just finished watching a lightweight, but it has tons of scenes with low end in it, TF3. Cranked. Loads of fun.

 

I saw another film with the DTS SPLAT logo so I capped it because it's insane in the membrane:

 

54cb2e73ad1a842002d458258f95d5ed.png

 

d997236ef4108263d472679dfd8403e4.png

 

Dunno if you've seen it yet, but watch out for it if you haven't. It kicks serious butt. :o:unsure::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy shit!! I never saw that logo intro before. Ethan burned me a THX intro disc awhile ago and now I think I might see what they're like. I do remember the one at the end of the credits of SW:AOTC was pretty awesome but I don't think it's that intense.

 

TF3 eh? I was just looking at movies to watch this snowy weekend too. Didn't know that had low end. I ran up the street and picked up The Equalizer and A Walk Among the Tombstones. Jazzy will actually watch those with me. I shall report back tomorrow. Might give ya a ring tomorrow.

 

Yah those graphs were 5db hot. I originally watched it at my normal 15db when my mom was over but after a couple scenes I had to turn it down cuz it was insane low and loud. If no one was upstairs I might have left it there but other than TIH and WotW I haven't come across anything like that. It made me uncomfortable there were people above me haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wanted to say a couple things.  Bosso, that post about naked sealed subs is spot on and what most people don't realize.  When one LT's their sealed system it acts like a port but even better as it adds more down low where the ported will fall off and one can keep the box size smaller to do so!  I made a post on AVS to let people know that although the ported always wins on WinIsd, However, in the room with proper shaping there is no contest. I have been running my system as a 7hz ported sub because I never sealed my speakers openings and it created this 12 dB peak at or around 6-8hz.  I have been tinkering with different speakers to properly seal the openings when I decided to run a sweep and then run a scene. Well, the scene was much more powerful at the same level with the sealed system and then I ran a quick sweep to calibrate and here is what I got.

 

sub_zpsa7vholjq.jpg

 

This was a 75 dB sweep to calibrate with my speakers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...