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BOSSOBASS Raptor system 3


Madaeel

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It's really a mixed back with Audyssey most of the time. I see it sucking the absolute life out my soundstage, as well as boosting the highs a little too much in my system. It leaves the bottom end alone for the most part, but I have definitely seen it do some NASTY things before with people's otherwise decent bass response. The most current run I did with Audyssey for the first time in almost a year of not using it resulted in a pretty pleasing sound, which I am still in the air about at this point. On some music I prefer it, and others I don't. All-in, your results can be drastically different between different sweeps and this one in particular just happened to leave most of the FR alone :) Probably why it sounds as good as it does! 

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Audyssey will try to correct for stuff like 1st reflections and comb filtering.  Despite its 'fuzzy logic' of trying to only correct problems shared by the most listening locations, it will still try to correct suckouts with the full 9dB boost available, draining headroom and adding to listener fatigue...

 

If used, it has to be checked.  It is a very powerful processing system no doubt, but it can make some very dubious decisions.  There is nothing like looking at a set of freq responses and determining where to set the filters yourself to get the best response at the most seats...but most folks do not have the time, nor do they care.

 

Most of the time, Audyssey would make things sound better, but sometimes it would be absolutely horrible.

 

On my line arrays, the corrected FR from the RCA out with Audyssey on would look like a comb in the HF region. 

 

 

JSS

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Max you have a time frame when you think you'll be done with the test disc? I know you're busy just wondering.

 

I think that'd be cool if a lot of us on data bass had one than we would know our standard for reference would be pretty damn close. I think most people on here have a relatively flat response. I do have a dip between 250-500hz I need to eq. I gotta get that MiniDSP. With those tones though we'd all be using the same source for calibration so I'd imagine when someone says "reference" we'd know we're close.

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I wish I knew.  I know what I want on the disc (comprehensive calibration and headroom-determining tools both for electronics and speakers in 7.1), but authoring a disc is a whole other world.....3-4 months at least, after winter.  Most of what I am putting on the disc can be done with REW, save for the SPL calibration, timbre matching and worst-case scenario stuff.

 

JSS

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Wouldn't the reference have to be in SPL for the whole system?  I haven't ever heard of a worst case standard in SPL.  I've read that 83dB was a standard for film mixes because it was thought to permit wide dynamic range with little perceived system noise and it landed on the most effective point on the equal loudness curve where the ear's freq res is most linear.  But even that number has changed over the years depending on who you read and what their preference was and either way, it was used for mixing and not for enjoying. 

 

I'm pretty sure that most in this forum make their reference well above that number for peak content.  I would figure that the peak SPL for film content is largely determined by taste or how long the listener wants to keep their hearing ;) and would vary. 

 

Maybe for now we can choose a worst case movie scene or 2 which most likely approaches the limit of output on what is encoded on disc and choose a peak SPL for it?  That would vary based on the bandwidth and peak response and how hot the individual chooses to run their sub out though.  Take Madaeel for example... he digs playback with the sub out cranked 15dB hot.  Would it even be possible to standardize his output to someone who prefers a more flat response? 

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Why you son of a bitch.....always gotta bring up the 15db hot don't you?! I could always run the subs flat when I post a graph and then crank it back up. I would really like to at least to have a standard here on data bass since we reference these graphs. Max and Nube thanks again for doing them. :)

 

Man I don't get that. 83db? That seems arbitrary. Where do they come up with these numbers??

 

Max(it's John right?) I'm curious what the timbre matching would involve? I thought to get the best possible match you just use the same speaker for every channel or at least speakers from the same series. What software would that use?

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Man I don't get that. 83db? That seems arbitrary.

 

I think that's my point.  There really isn't a standard out there in SPL output for a flat system so if we were to come up with one, we would just have to pick a random number too based on how loud we think it should be, right?  A few people in this forum might adopt it for a standard but what would that really mean? 

 

It might mean more to include the peak SPL and level of the sub out in relation to the mains for a given film scene. 

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Man I don't get that. 83db? That seems arbitrary. Where do they come up with these numbers??

83dB is film reference for a single channel playing back band limited (500Hz - 2kHz) -20dBFS pink noise, it is 83dB not 85dB because band limited pink noise put less energy into the room so the SPL drops accordingly. It is band limited so as to try and combat the variance caused by different speakers/rooms. If you use full bandwidth pink noise then you should calibrate to 85dB.

 

The standard that produces this is, as far as I am aware, SMPTE RP 200 (http://standards.smpte.org/content/978-1-61482-462-6/st-323-2004/SEC1.refs)

 

If you calibrate your system to this then you can play at reference accurately. If you want to run hotter or colder then I would still calibrate to that but then turn it up (or down) as appropriate. Obviously if you go hotter then the peak level you calibrate your signal chain to (to avoid clipping anything) changes accordingly.

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Why you son of a bitch.....always gotta bring up the 15db hot don't you?! I could always run the subs flat when I post a graph and then crank it back up. I would really like to at least to have a standard here on data bass since we reference these graphs. Max and Nube thanks again for doing them. :)

 

Man I don't get that. 83db? That seems arbitrary. Where do they come up with these numbers??

 

Max(it's John right?) I'm curious what the timbre matching would involve? I thought to get the best possible match you just use the same speaker for every channel or at least speakers from the same series. What software would that use?

Yup, it's John.

 

The timbre matching signals are pink noise panned between all the speakers. Very easy way to tell whether or not your speakers all sound alike. If the panned sound changes 'character moving from one to another speaker, they are not as closely timbre matched as you once thought....

 

It is a very tough test.

 

JSS

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I would love to run that on my speakers. That's also one of the reasons I used a center channel for my LCR. The surrounds are all the same too. I wanted to use the same speaker all around but they were a little too wide. I figured that was still as I could get to matching. The center has the same midrange/tweeter combo of course just one extra woofer. Panning between speakers makes effects seam life-like or like crap. Cool stuff man.

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Yup, it's John.

 

The timbre matching signals are pink noise panned between all the speakers. Very easy way to tell whether or not your speakers all sound alike. If the panned sound changes 'character moving from one to another speaker, they are not as closely timbre matched as you once thought....

 

It is a very tough test.

 

JSS

Or one is wired out of phase IIRC??

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I was sitting here wondering which soundtrack will take the coveted Max Abraham award for 2014 and...

 

Wow, another year has just blinked past.

 

SpiderMan 2

Edge Of Tomorrow

X Men: Days Of Future Past

Earth To Echo

Maleficent

Expendables 3

Gravity

Lone Survivor

Godzilla

 

Not a bad year for SQ junkies.

 

Thanks to everyone on these boards for just about the most fun a guy can have sitting in a chair. :lol:

 

Special thanks to Adam for letting the rest of the world into his through this thread. He's cool as ice and he and his family are a joy to know and a blast to be around. :P:D:lol:B):wub:

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The feeling is mutual Dave. It was great to finally meet you and Paul. That was one of the best weekends ever. Wish you and Paul coulda stayed longer. Owning the first Raptor system is an honor and every time I look at it or fire it up I'm still blown away(and regret buying those SI's :( ) I can't wait to come down and see you and the fam again. This time you better take me to that Chinese restaurant! :lol:

 

Man I only watched two of those movies on that list. I need some days off to catch up. What's your favorite for the year?

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I left a few good ones out ion my list above. Here's a rundown of my favorites for 2014 with one SL cap per:

 

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I'm leaning towards Captain America, but I haven't decided yet.

 

BTW, Gravity has some heavy duty scenes that no one seems to have caught and I liked the flick. Here's the opening, right after the WB logo...

not too shabby and def unfiltered:

 

a6af3cb05693ab4d085147efac100d0b.png

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Man you just made my night. I bought Gravity last week, in 3D of course, since Abraham said it had shudder effects using 20-30hz. I figured for $17 why not. This just makes it that much sweeter of a deal. I really didn't hear much about the movie itself but if I can sit through 3 hours of TF4 I think I can handle anything.

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Man you just made my night. I bought Gravity last week, in 3D of course, since Abraham said it had shudder effects using 20-30hz. I figured for $17 why not. This just makes it that much sweeter of a deal. I really didn't hear much about the movie itself but if I can sit through 3 hours of TF4 I think I can handle anything.

 

Gravity 3D is pretty darned good. The soundtrack is one-of-a-kind. I'd love to hear it in ATMOS. Check out the sound design/mix commentary:

 

http://soundworkscollection.com/videos/gravity

 

Great low end effects as well.

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Well than $17 was a steal. :)

 

Paul told me ATMOS channels aren't discrete though. That's disappointing and until they are I don't see the point unless your room is cavernous and can actually benefit from the added effects. You have a decent ceiling height so maybe in your room or any with a height of 9ft or higher you'd notice, but I would think the discrete surrounds would overpower them. I will say I woulda wired for it if my bulkhead wasn't right above me.

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Looks like Dolby is trying to get into the speaker market.  They are applying this transfer function to their Atmos speakers to try to boost the frequencies that allow the ear to perceive direction the most (the research that was done to that effect was done in the early 70's not by Dolby).  But because the channels aren't encoded discrete, they can't process this curve into the recorded disc material and instead of using the receiver's processor to put the curve on the output in the digital domain, they are using some podunk analog crossover in the speakers to shape the signal so they can get their licensing fee.

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