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Been hifi and cinema enthusiast for 10 years with experience in commercial gear. Interested in what diy and modders can do to gear and also their opinion regarding some lesser known brands. Anybody have experience with ascendo and their subwoofer and infra sonic gear? I currently own their 32 inch infra sonic and was blown away what this 32inch can do compared to jl audio rel and bowers and wilkins high end gear i also own.  I live in south africa so very small enthusiast community.  Im currently looking at the 21inch offerings but the frequency range compared to db1d or fathom f113v2 doesnt seem up to spec. Any input will be appreciated.  

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Hehe. I also dont have grill for the 32inch. Let me tell you i have jl audio f113v2 x 2, the room stopped responding at around 18hz. With the 32 i can go down to 8hz infra in 170m2 room and still feel it.  Swopping my jls for the 21s in hope that ill get higher spl at 20-30hz range

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Btw i wanted to know what the forums members think of combining bass and sub bass. I really think not one sub can reproduce all the bass and sub bass info. 20-50hz a certain type of size and design works and 5-20hz another size and type of design.  Ill repost some rew graphs when all eqd and calibrated. Will love to compare and have some input

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9 hours ago, Dionysus88 said:

i have jl audio f113v2 x 2, the room stopped responding at around 18hz. With the 32 i can go down to 8hz

Did you really just compare two overpriced 13" subs to a 32" sub? :P

1 hour ago, kipman725 said:

They seem to be sealed boxes won't they work fine into the 100Hz+ range?

I have seen infra subs that are very narrow band using tuned pipe enclosures arranged in an array of varying pipe length to cover a frequency range not possible using a single pipe.

I thought about doing this a while back, but I decided to not go that route, as I could imagine that the resulting phase issues would be severe, thereby working against myself (lowering system sensitivity and efficiency). Probably takes a lot of testing/aligning to get right, just like using multiple subs with different tunings (although FIR filters could help you out in the latter scenario).

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Combining bass and subbass has provoked many interesting debates (at least I think so with the ones I have read over the years). 

If I summarize properly, there seems to be a general pattern.  It seems that first a distinction between vibrations and spl is characterized and challenged to distinguish properties of bass and subbass. Much of this depends on the listening environment (e. g. The room) and the person (e. g. Different body types with different resonances). 

Afterwards of that dialogue, different theories and experiences of impulse waves VS sine waves are exchanged. 

Many state that large motor, heavey surrounds, long travel are excellent for producing subbass - usually sinewaves. 

To produce impulse waves, many state the opposite of the above - lightweight, stiffer surrounds, less travel, etc.. 

Having a driver produce both very well is an interesting conversation that has been dominated by money and physical space available.  Producing both simultaneously can be a difficult/impossible task depending on the drivers and cabinet designs. 

My own personal thoughts - having had the luxury of experiencing many different home theaters which have had various designs with minimums of 8 18" drivers in the room - I have found that with the space and power, I do prefer large amounts of impulse based driver systems/configurations that supposedly do better with bass VS subbass. With enough of the impulse based drivers, the subbass reproduction reaches needed spl levels I preder while delivering the bass and midbass I enjoy - all "cleanly" .

With systems that had high excursion drivers that theoretically excelled at sinewaves, the sound of bass and midbass just wasn't my preference. However, without enough of the defined "impulse style" drivers, the subbass lacked in creating the vibs and sensations I also enjoy. 

So, like most things in life - your mileage may vary - there are many variables and options. Hopefully we all can chase what we enjoy and then figure out how to stay happy once the chase is over

 

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Thx very intuitive post. Thats why i decided to go with both designs. Large diameter long excursion 32 inch and 2 x 21 inch “faster” stiffer diffirent designed subs. The subs also allow setting over avb protocol so super fast time alignment possible. This is done by installer unfortunately as there is no plug and play system. I have a 500m3 area that needs to be filled.  

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On 11/29/2020 at 12:31 AM, Dionysus88 said:

Been hifi and cinema enthusiast for 10 years with experience in commercial gear. Interested in what diy and modders can do to gear and also their opinion regarding some lesser known brands. Anybody have experience with ascendo and their subwoofer and infra sonic gear? I currently own their 32 inch infra sonic and was blown away what this 32inch can do compared to jl audio rel and bowers and wilkins high end gear i also own.  I live in south africa so very small enthusiast community.  Im currently looking at the 21inch offerings but the frequency range compared to db1d or fathom f113v2 doesnt seem up to spec. Any input will be appreciated.  

Thanks!  I was not familiar with Ascendo and know nothing about them except for what's on their web page.

Subs with 32" cones and larger are very rare.  I expect such a large cone sub should do ULF bass very well, but a large cone is not strictly required.  Multiple smaller subs can do just as well, and multiple subs in general give superior sound quality in small rooms when placed at different room locations.  I think 21" is a very good "sweet spot size from a design standpoint.  As drivers get bigger, you need bigger cabinets to get the most out of them, and once you go above 21", the cabinets tend to get rather huge.  OTOH, super-size drivers are probably a great choice for stationary installations in large rooms like churches and full-size cinemas.

On 12/2/2020 at 12:09 AM, Dionysus88 said:

Btw i wanted to know what the forums members think of combining bass and sub bass. I really think not one sub can reproduce all the bass and sub bass info. 20-50hz a certain type of size and design works and 5-20hz another size and type of design.  Ill repost some rew graphs when all eqd and calibrated. Will love to compare and have some input

Well all this depends, and there are many trade-offs involved.  Some drivers are much better for wide bandwidth reproduction than others.  The same is true for cabinet designs.  Also, what is your application and how big is your room?  If your room is large, you will need *way more* ULF output capability than in a small room.  So in a small room with a lot of natural LF gain, it's probably simpler and more cost effective to use a design with a pricier wide bandwidth sub driver to cover the whole bass range, but if you require good ULF quality in a cinema or other large room, a dedicated ULF subsystem to go with the regular "subs" may be the more cost effective choice.  Also a big con with two different sets of subwoofers is that they have to be crossed-over and integrated, and that can introduce both system complexity and sound quality degradations that may be difficult to prevent or adequately compensate for.

If you want more specific advice, I suggest you post more details about your room and design and what you are trying to achieve.  As far as equipment brands and whatnot, the other ones you mentioned don't offer a lot of "bang-for-buck" unless you like "buying the brand" for its own sake.  Ascendo didn't list prices, so I can't comment on the value proposition there, but the concept of "value" becomes a bit more vague when dealing with rare products like 50" subs.  They also seem to offer unique capabilities and services for custom systems integration, totally unlike the others as well.  Most people here are using DIY designs.  It's a great value proposition for a lot of us, but it's not for everyone.

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Something with very low inductance and a lowish fs would work well.  Light and stiff with just enough strength.  Used from 50hz up to where your mains can effortlessly take over.  In a high efficiency 21", that is special order if you want to stay sealed and small.  You came to the right place.  

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  • 1 month later...

What exactly is this setup being used for? I see no center speaker, so it's not a dedicated HT setup, but I don't really see a point in running a 32" sub in a music setup when you already have two 21s. Might sound crazy, but since the space is so big a single sealed 32" might be on the weak side if you want solid sub 10Hz (which only makes sense imo if your wood flooring allows enough flex on the concrete for TR).
Also, that space screams for acoustic treatment, but it looks quite new so I guess you're in the process of setting it up? What kind of room correction are you running and how are you handling your crossovers? The crossover points look good to me, but running vented mid-bass modules (your 21s) might cause some phase troubles. 1 octave from the tuning point should be alright thou.

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It's hard to advise what is correct without more details. Measurements of the responses at the listening positions would help. 

The 21's appear to be vented or possibly a TL variant? Do you know what the tuning is on these? 

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On 1/14/2021 at 1:50 AM, peniku8 said:

What exactly is this setup being used for? I see no center speaker, so it's not a dedicated HT setup, but I don't really see a point in running a 32" sub in a music setup when you already have two 21s. Might sound crazy, but since the space is so big a single sealed 32" might be on the weak side if you want solid sub 10Hz (which only makes sense imo if your wood flooring allows enough flex on the concrete for TR).
Also, that space screams for acoustic treatment, but it looks quite new so I guess you're in the process of setting it up? What kind of room correction are you running and how are you handling your crossovers? The crossover points look good to me, but running vented mid-bass modules (your 21s) might cause some phase troubles. 1 octave from the tuning point should be alright thou.

I started as pure stereo brief that can handle intimate cigar nights as well as movie nights and party nights ( high spl xrt2k was only choice to foot the bill). Although the line array needs more space to throw seating position is only 3m from left and right speaker. speaker distance is 2,7m centre to centre . I will upload spec sheet with distances 

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8 hours ago, Dionysus88 said:

Quick question. Will top loading these 21s on oak floor and the 32 on the concrete floor improve sound? I was thinking of using double granites/marble on top weighing them down. 

This is another question that really cannot be answered without more details of the setup, cab alignments, room and measurements. It depends...

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On 1/21/2021 at 1:04 AM, Dionysus88 said:

Quick question. Will top loading these 21s on oak floor and the 32 on the concrete floor improve sound? I was thinking of using double granites/marble on top weighing them down. 

What @Ricci said, but also how is the oak floor constructed?  Is it suspended over another floor or above the slab?  Or is it right on the slab?  The difference in that regard isn't huge, but it's there.  Much more important is the room geometry (including adjoining spaces that are normally open to the main space) and specific placements within the room.

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