reddman71

Definitely not. I don't know where this started or why it continues to live on ....like small drivers having faster bass.

 

They mix to the standards of typical cinemas. Mains with dual 15's or better, often not bass managed (until very recently and often with newer installs) with extension on their own to 30-40hz. Surrounds with far less extension also not commonly bass managed. Then there is the bass system often of which is 2-4 18's or better and those are almost always tuned in the ~30hz region.

 

This is the standard for cinema. This is what is mixed to except maybe for near field which is more like studio monitors.

 

 

Btw, HTiB systems, like any brand name product, is packed in with self protection limiters of all sorts. They have to make them idiot proof. Now I'm not saying nobody has ever broken a small cheap HTiB system but it's not like it's happening left and right. Nobody with a HTiB watches BHD for good reason.   Ugh.

 What really bothers me is when such agressive filters are used that effectively elinimates most LFE from the big blockbuster movies. And when the soundtracks are compressed as well so as to make them all but unpleasant to listen to at moderate volumes, that's really a thorn in my side. It seems to be a matter of matter of how loud can we make it. Or maybe I'm viewing it the wrong way.

It's like all current movies are being mixed using the lowest common denominator, HTIB systems. Almost makes me wonder what's the point in having high resolution playback system

Kung Fu Panda is a great sounding movie. Thanks for the graphs.

I had a chance to rewatch Desolation of Smaug and it's way better than the first Hobbit movie soundwise. The Smaug scene is the highlight of the movie as expected. I'm not sure how low it extends but there is some very nice LFE during the Smaug  scenes. It's good to see that this is NOT a repeat of the first one. This movie has a really enjoyable sound design and the louder you play it the better it sounds. I think many here will be satisfied when they give it a listen on their systems. All that's left is for Nube to reveal how deep the LFE extends.

 

 

Yeah looking forward to graphs as well But was weak bass wise It's maybe a touch better than the first but only because of the smaug sequence. Such a shame as it really lacks impact  I sometimes wonder what the pro sites are using for there sound equipment as the review on the bluray mentions the complaints about weak LFE & said they had no problems at all & sounded outstanding.

 

This was from bluray.com

 

There was a small but vocal minority of audiophiles who expressed concern over An Unexpected Journey's lossless audio mix because its low-end output wasn't all it could be. I admittedly didn't notice anything amiss at the time of my review, and still find it difficult to discern any shortcoming when revisiting the first film's Blu-ray release. Did I encounter any such issue with Desolation of Smaug? No, although those who pore over specs and bitrates may find the same problem here. So why even bring it up? I too want the best that a studio can deliver, so bravo to those who uncover these sorts of things. It's important to know. I just wonder how much of the offending issue is actually perceptible to the human ear and how much is driven by the power of tech-spec suggestion. 

 

Oh well Maybe Hobbit 3 will be better  

I often wonder the same thing. That reviewer is full of BS! Tech spec suggestion??? Yeah right   Anyone with half a decent subwoofer could easily tell that the bass is anemic in the first Hobbit movie. Smaug is better but falls short as well.

I watched Desolation of Smaug several nights ago. It's better LFE than the first Hobbit movie but it's no deep bass monster sadly. To me it's a nicely done soundtrack but the lack of really deep LFE is really shameful. There's decent LFE during the Smaug scenes but not what one would expect for such a fearsome dragon. Overall it's better than The Hobbit soundwise but it could've and should've been so much more. A demo worthy opportunity wasted

 

redd,

 

I'm glad it's at least not as bad as TDKR (OMG that was bad)...

 

 

JSS

 

 

 

TDKR was unbearable to listen to! I can deal with MOS even though I listen to it at a lower level than normal.

Even though I don't have graphs to prove conclusively, but I'm afraid MOS is another victim of the loudness craze that's becoming prevalent. It reminds me a lot of TDKR except it's not quite as strident and fatiguing sounding as that one. It's just loud. I was hoping for more from it.

I should have the links fixed today.

 

JSS

Thanks again for all the effort that you put into keeping the thread up to date.

TDKR is indeed a fairly average sound mix that's been ramp up in the loudness department. Very dynamic sounding but fatiguing after a while. To my ears it sound muddled and congested. I kept thinking of a 3 hour long movie trailer. Even though I really like the Nolan trilogy, they really dropped the ball on this mix. I truly hope that this isn't the start of a new trend in BD audio.

Welcome reddman!

 

The highpassing issue looks like it hits certain releases and not others, it almost seems random, but two of the biggest releases (Avengers&TDKR) were high passed, TDKR to a lesser extent. Avengers is a better sounding mix, IMO, but the highpassing took the guts out of it. MIB3 and Battleship also were high passed, but we had some good extension this year as well, TASM, TR, U:A, WotT come to mind.

 

I really believe we got the theatrical mix for TDKR. It definitely pulls no punches, and there is not any near field mixing room has subs that can throw out 125dB that I know of. It also sounded very similar to my theatrical experience, but the addition of the ULF material in the prologue scene was great in my basement.

 

One thing that theatrical mixes on BD have is the fact that there are hardly any theatrical LCR and Surround speakers that can go below 40Hz, and all of that gets redirected to the sub in a bass managed setup, requiring very capable subwoofer support in home.

 

I remember discussing LF support in theaters with John Allen of HPS4000, whose horn-loaded main speakers are impressive at 109dB sensitivity, but that only dig to 40Hz with their ~45Hz tuning. The HPS4000 sub system is simply more of the same horn subs, that can reach a little lower due to mutual horn coupling. I'll see if I can dig up the conversation, but he did not have much to say about content below, noting that 35Hz and above were still 'subwoofer frequencies'. Don't get me wrong: I think his approach to headroom is awesome, and he designs systems that will have 6-8dB of headroom when asked to play at peak volumes. There is an HPS4000 theater about 3.5 hours from me, and I may check it out sometime. If he had some 15-20Hz tapped or front-loaded horns to beef up that LFE channel below the 45Hz horns it would make for the best theater systems anywhere.

 

Mr Allen also sets up each theater with a modified X-Curve and custom acoustic treatment, and I would like to hear the difference, as I think the X-Curve to be an outdated solution to theater alignment. He has a tremendous article on his site titled 'The Mythical X-Curve'. Good reading.

 

JSS

I agree with you. I also think Avengers has a better sounding mix than TDKR but that 30hz HPF just kills the overall impact the track could have. I'll be screening TR this weekend.

I remember reading about John Allen's HPS4000 theater systems. I've always wanted to hear one but sadly, I'm not even remotely close to a HPS theater to check it out.

Since this is my first post, I'kk begin by saying hi. I really appreciate the tremendous effort that has gone into the graphs and such. This is truly an invaluable resource to have. As a result of seeing the graphs, I know now why Avengers doesn't rock me with great LFE extension. Also the loudness issue with TDKR is clearer as well.What's truly disturbing is the HPF that seems to be becoming an issue. I sincerely hope that this isn't becoming the standard to which we will have to deal with. I look forward to seeing more results in the future and I like the tone and maturity of this thread a lot better than the abysmal one on AVS. Keep up the fine work guys.