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Everything posted by peniku8

  1. The magic of PFC... love it
  2. Thanks for the paper, I've been looking for some more info the topic! If you had access to a flow sim software, you could probably get some decent info out of that, even if it works with (non compressible) liquids.
  3. Bennett from B&C suggested setting the true long term power limits around 1/10th of the program power, which would be 500W for an ipal for example, or 360W for the 4,5" 21DS115. I have no clue how good the cooling is on the Pyles, but power handling also depends on cabinet type, as you get less excursion (so less cooling) in sealed cabs for example, but I'm pretty sure you're not using sealed cabs for PA. You could try running the sub at a certain power limit for a while and measure the TS parameter shift. Or measure it acoustically and see where power compression sets in, maybe that is a good indicator as well.
  4. What I found interesting is that, as SME already described, I think the reference point for 'loud' music listening at home (mid and near field) is around 80dbA, which is where the 'excitement' starts and I feel engaged with the music as my main element of sensual stimulation. In a live setting in a large hall or outdoors, I found that this 'excitement' starts at pretty much exactly 100dbA. I've mixed a show at 97dbA and it was just lacking excitement. When I boosted the overall volume to around 100dbA, it was there, 103db and it was too loud. My show still was a few db less loud than the main act's, which I found too loud (rock with bagpipes, which can be pretty nasty up high). At home I'd die at 100dbA, that's just nuts, even for just a short moment. But what I've also found was that the lower the distortion of the system, the higher the point where "loud" becomes "too loud". I've finished a new system for my studio last week, which shouldn't exceed 0.2%THD@100db/1m 100Hz-20k and had a listening session with my dad. I turned it up a bit, but it didn't seem too excessive to me, until I tried to talk to my dad and noticed that he could barely converse, even while screaming at each other. It was a bit shocking and since I've installed the speakers in the studio I need to constantly remind myself to not turn it up too much, because now distortion is no longer an indication of loudness. Interestingly, the woofer and mid will show power compression even before they exceed 0.1% THD anywhere in the spectrum the operate in, which is very astonishing. Now I'll just need to build a sub for the system, but I haven't even tested it out for its bass capabilities. The four 8" drivers should make some decent noise near field, but are of course limited in the lower regions since the designs are sealed (avoiding port resonances and noise). Anyways, I'm pretty sure that system won't have a problem hitting 130db throughout most of the spectrum. My single near field SKHorn could already exceed 130db, I have no doubt that your system barely breaks a sweat at THX reference, unless you're going after the single digits.
  5. Weapons of mass destruction..!
  6. I did use complex Le and my vent area are more than yours, even if you double the numbers to combine the two ports. I will PM you my HR inputs, but I usually manipulate the inputs there in a way to get results closer to real-world expectations. My thoughts on the design after a while: -I've used them at a few weddings and the performance was great. I have a sub-octaver on the cajon, which adds a nice 40-45Hz low end to the kick drum, which would be hardly achievable with run off the mill 12" PA designs tuned to 55Hz and what not. -They can take a lot of power and I've never noticed port noise, but theres some early compression creeping in, which is just natural for a design this size -The expansion of the port towards the outside is too much I think. It might cause separation (and turbulence) there, which could be remedied by an extra element to guide the air, but I'd maybe just make the expansion less logarithmic... I'm learning a bit from a youtube channel called Kyle Engineers, which is an ex-mercedes F1 engineer -A bigger port gives you more performance of course, but the goal here was space-efficiency obviously, and it needed to be a one man setup which won't break my back. The design is lacking a bit of punch compared to my 21ds115 cabs, but I guess that's only natural since those are front loaded and.. well 21"
  7. I finished a 6Ch amp build made from two Hypex FA123 yesterday. It's a lab amp for speaker testing, so it has all connections on the front. It's not the prettiest and already has a bunch of scratches, but hey, at least it's got cable management..!
  8. Wow, that's a clean looking build, nice!
  9. Designing a crossover requires measuring the drivers' frequency and impedance response, which means you'll have to build and fully assembly the speaker to do so. If that hasn't been done, the crossover is more or less a random assembly of components and it delivering optimal results is about as likely as winning the lottery. Like SME already mentioned, the question here is if you want to: -design and build a speaker outperforming a store-bought solution at the same price or for even less money (typical DIY approach) -design and build a speaker just for fun, with no particular focus on the quality of the final product -design and build a very specific and unique speaker not available on the market If your goal is the first on the list you'd be best off with building an existing design that fits your bill. If it's the last, get ready for dozens of hours of reading, because there is lots of knowledge out there, plus spending ~300$ on measurement equipment for FR and impedance sweeps. If it's the 2nd, stop worrying, build something and ignore our nit-picking
  10. The MDF I have is 800kg/m³ and my ply is 650kg/m³, which makes the MDF 23% heavier. My dad has some old Klipsch speakers made from plywood which feels like half the weight of the plywood I'm using for my subs, there are huge differences. I worked a lot with MDF lately (for studio monitors) and I'm not a fan of it. Won't hold screws well is my main issue here, since I don't care about the dust (my 7KW dust collector leaves nothing on the cnc). Will probably switch to carb2 CDF for the baffles at least, even thou it's literally 6x the cost. Those old Klipsch speakers are a mess imo. Light ply with no bracing, no gasket tape on the hatch and the tweeter and mid horns are back-mounted on the 1" baffle...
  11. A nice video on the topic by Bennett Prescott, B&C US sales manager:
  12. The driver can handle around 400-500W true long term average power, which is about 55V at Zmin. You'll have to find out the minimum impedance of the driver in the cab to be sure, but pure voltage limitation isn't ideal anyways.
  13. You're gonna have a really bad time if your crossovers are not specific to the components and the cab they're built into, unless you're planning to throw a dsp at it
  14. Yea, but 700AUD is 440€ and the 21DS115 can be had for 400 here atm, if you take 4. Last time I ordered I paid 380 per driver (bought 2). Am B&C OEM now thou, so I can order directly. Can't tell those prices for obvious reasons
  15. Holy crap, that Dayton is more expensive there than a 21DS115 is here Should be reasonably good in the Skram thou, Bl is high enough for it to make some rumble in the cab.
  16. I think the cost of BB is hardly significant here
  17. I didn't get the amp to power cycle at 10Hz, however it did so below 10Hz. REW starts its measurement sweep one octave below the start frequency (and does a fade-in or w/e) and the amp would shut off at the 5Hz input. But I'd not go with Hypex amps if I wanna get sub 10Hz, I'd probably want something with a bit more power. Even 400W at 5Hz probably produces no meaningful output 😅
  18. Well yea, if it's mass produced manufacturing that will be less, but if you go to a CNC shop and ask them what it would cost for them to cnc, build and paint that thing I doubt it'll come in much below 3k including the 500 or 1000$ worth of BB. And the extra 4k is markup as I said. I don't think Powersoft sells you a finished subwoofer for the parts cost.
  19. Good info there Momo, everything on the list there is a tad cheaper than I expected But still, you pay 3000 for the driver and 2500 for the full plate amp. That's 5500€ excl. VAT, so you pay about 7k USD for the components. Now add plywood and manufacturing costs and you end up right in the 10-15k ballpark I outlined before with some wiggle room for markup. Does Powersoft actually sell the finished subs or are these subs just concepts to show what M-Drive can be used for? From a DIY perspective I think the driver+amp combo isn't too expensive (for what it delivers).
  20. Don't think anyone here is planning to buy a 10-15k sub if he could DIY a blazing bass inferno for that money. I'm also pretty sure that M-Force is only sold to OEMs and installation companies, so if you want one you'd probably not be able to buy it directly.
  21. The 451 curve looks like a free air plot. Forgot to close the hatch? 😅
  22. peniku8


    What exactly is this setup being used for? I see no center speaker, so it's not a dedicated HT setup, but I don't really see a point in running a 32" sub in a music setup when you already have two 21s. Might sound crazy, but since the space is so big a single sealed 32" might be on the weak side if you want solid sub 10Hz (which only makes sense imo if your wood flooring allows enough flex on the concrete for TR). Also, that space screams for acoustic treatment, but it looks quite new so I guess you're in the process of setting it up? What kind of room correction are you running and how are you handling your crossovers? The crossover points look good to me, but running vented mid-bass modules (your 21s) might cause some phase troubles. 1 octave from the tuning point should be alright thou.
  23. I've recieved an answer and they suspected this phenomenon was caused by bad contact of the speaker connector on the amp. I had the amps stored on a shelf in the warehouse for a few months, so it makes sense that there was some dirt build-up and corrosion-like effects (humidity never exceeds 60% there thou, so it's only minor), since the amps were unpacked. Running a higher current through the connector seems to literally clean it, which reduced the distortion. The more you know..!
  24. Small update on the Hypex amps: according to them all amps are tested at the factory and run through a burn-in period there. I suspect that this step was skipped because the amps were on back order already (I waited 2 months to get my amps in mid 2020 due to the pandemic), but of course this is nothing but a speculation from my side right now. I voiced the same thoughts to Hypex and waiting for their take on that. Will keep you posted
  25. That's correct, but they don't actually change by much, especially at only 50W per 3KW element (which is 100W into 8R=two elements in parallel). For 4R tests that's 4 elements in parallel already, so it's only about 30W per element on the FA123.
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