ITR

Yes, I will second that. A single channel of K20 should be plenty.

10 hours ago, Electrodynamic said:

Thanks for posting the complete T/S's (unlike what was available a year ago when I posted and you quoted me). Super stiff driver. But since you mentioned using a lazer for measurements, what is the actual Xmax (70% BL, 82% BL, etc), Xmech, Xsus? One-way figures of course. It's good to see someone with Klippel openly publishing the information on this driver. Thanks again.

Here you go. My 3 kW amplifier could not push it further than +/- 15 mm (~210 V peaks) so you don't actually see where the 70% limits are, but one can have a pretty good estimate.

5 hours ago, Ricci said:

I must say this has gotten me interested in testing the SVS 16's again.

Please do that.

1 hour ago, Ukko Kari said:

The product page says edgewound coil:

https://www.svsound.com/products/pb16-ultra

Taking a stab at the finished enclosure dimensions after bracing and ports of ~ 7.5 cubes and plugging in the numbers in WinISD, letting it autocalculate the unknowns, the actual power across the coil looks surprisingly low, with a 47 ohm impedance peak in the 40 hz range.

 

It also says 5 kW peak amp power. You can choose to believe them or me.

I will post the impedance plot for you.

9 minutes ago, Ricci said:

Thanks. They are not what I expected.

I just checked and this would've tied the 21Ipal as having the stiffest suspension I've ever encountered.

And that was after the LSI test.

1 minute ago, Ricci said:

Welcome to the forum...

Just to clarify...These specs are pulled from what driver?

The one that is in PB16-U.

3 hours ago, Infrasonic said:

Interesting.

What device was used to derive those parameters, ITR?

I used them lasers.

4 hours ago, Electrodynamic said:

Quoting from a full year ago?  Please see my comments about this driver in the newer thread. It is a nice driver, just not for those on these forums that are happy to plop subwoofers in 20+  ft^3 tuned low. Apparently small sealed does not go over well (we know this because our 11's and 12's are our lowest selling offerings on the forums). But as to your question about my question of T/S's...a proper T/S parameter spec sheet would be good here at Data-Bass. At the time of my post (a full year ago) SVS didn't post enough T/S parameters to model their driver. They really didn't need to do so as they offer a turn-key product but here on Data-Bass a list of T/S parameters is usually a good starting point. 

 

You can add mass without adding inductance. High moving mass is not always indicative of high inductance. See our HST-11 mkII and HST-12 mkII. High moving mass and very good Le:Re ratio behavior. 

Sorry, I am little late to the party. Could you please point me to the newer thread, I could not find it.

I did not mean that high moving mass would always be an indicative of high inductance, I was just replying to his question.

T/S parameters below.

Electrical Parameters            
Re    4.65    Ohm    electrical voice coil resistance at DC
Le    3.143    mH    frequency independent part of voice coil inductance
L2    8.938    mH    para-inductance of voice coil
R2    16.81    Ohm    electrical resistance due to eddy current losses
Cmes    898.19    µF    electrical capacitance representing moving mass
Lces    21.56    mH    electrical inductance representing driver compliance
Res    51.10    Ohm    resistance due to mechanical losses
fs    36.2    Hz    driver resonance frequency 
            
Mechanical Parameters            
(using laser)            
Mms    491.600    g    mechanical mass of driver diaphragm assembly including air load and voice coil
Mmd (Sd)    464.350    g    mechanical mass of voice coil and diaphragm without air load  
Rms    10.711    kg/s    mechanical resistance of  total-driver losses
Cms    0.039    mm/N    mechanical compliance of driver suspension
Kms    25.38    N/mm    mechanical stiffness of driver suspension
Bl    23.395    N/A    force factor (Bl product)
Lambda s    0.045        suspension creep factor
            
Loss factors            
Qtp    0.911        total Q-factor considering all losses
Qms    10.428        mechanical Q-factor of driver in free air considering Rms only
Qes    0.949        electrical Q-factor of driver in free air considering Re only
Qts    0.870        total Q-factor considering Re and Rms only
            
Other Parameters            
Vas    38.8458    l    equivalent air volume of suspension 
n0    0.186    %    reference efficiency (2 pi-radiation using Re) 
Lm    84.90    dB    characteristic sound pressure level (SPL at 1m for 1W @ Re)
Lnom    86.00    dB    nominal sensitivity (SPL at 1m for 1W @ Zn)
            
Series resistor    0.00    Ohm    resistance of series resistor
Sd    834.69    cm²    diaphragm area

On 12.10.2016 at 6:12 AM, Electrodynamic said:

But on a realistic note: No one is going to purchase SVS's 16" woofer system, pluck the driver, and send it into Ricci to be tested. People may say they are going to but no one will. 

And is no one going to chime in on their verbage for their notes on the response plot [red/orange arrows]? I had a lot respect for SVS until I saw their web page for this subwoofer system and the verbage and specifics (technicalities) they used for this subwoofer system. Or am I just "that guy" that is saying what everyone else is thinking but no one is willing to say it? 

I hear you. What kind of tests/measurements you are after?

On 13.10.2016 at 7:00 AM, Electrodynamic said:

 

The 8" coil is for power handling.* Edgewound is a nice touch but 8" diameter does not always indicate higher motor strength. 

It is not edgewound coil. It has round wire.

On 13.10.2016 at 5:42 PM, Ricci said:

I was wondering what the frame diameter is on that driver. Could be actually 16" or could be 17". 

16"

On 17.12.2016 at 6:27 PM, lukeamdman said:

Eh.   You'd get more SPL and better response with two PB-13 Ultras.  

Very true. Actually you won't even need two.

On 1.2.2017 at 1:02 AM, lowerFE said:

Could anyone chime in on why SVS Ultra drivers do so poorly in maximum upper bass SPL? 

High moving mass, lots of inductance.

On 1.2.2017 at 6:59 PM, Ricci said:

 It's probable that SVS developed that driver with them as the build house and now Tymphany is offering their own version.  A few things pop out off of the Tymphany spec sheet though. The frame OD is 15" even on the spec sheet so I wonder why list it as a 16"? Also the former ID is listed at 7.4" so it seems like a 7.5" coil not 8".

SVS has their own proprietary basket (+cone and surround) which indeed is 16". Tymphany's own version is 15".

On 2.2.2017 at 7:00 PM, Kyle said:

The Plus/2 was awesome too, I loved that sub.

 

Old school subs for the win

I also had PB12-Ultra and PB12-Plus/2. Great subs.

On 15.2.2017 at 7:48 PM, andy497 said:

There is so little spider left in that basket compared to the coil, I would think that would severely limit the travel.  

That is correct.