Kyle

We can handle huge pics now thanks for AWS and image resizing No worries about pics or size of them anymore!

So in terms of this 60 cubic foot Danely sub (a pair at 120 ft cubed) One could create 30 (~4 cubic foot) with just a simple lab-12c driver tuned to 20Hz (or higher if needed) with an effective sensitivity of nearly ~120dB @ 1 watt for the array. Does that beat these horns? I think we have a good fight here... The power advantage is squarely on the horn but if you have the power, I think the ported box array is going to win out in a lot of ways, esp. down low. We need to test this...

omg i forgot about the fan sub! that thing was a best at 10Hz. Ya, small motor force or large cone, struggle to counter the air pressure in the box. Bigger motor = better, but requires more voltage to adjust for the back EMF generally seen with huge magnets.

Those horns look crazy! I respect horns, but at the end of the day, I question the volume SPL trade-off. Not saying they don't help just questioning the amount of gain you get. Josh, what say you?

Puck neo, very efficient. I like the heatsink above the t-toke there. I don't have a lot of puck magnetic simulations but the thing I noticed a lot of those was the behavior of the flux under the magnet. I noticed some of it shorted to the other side of the gap causing a reverse B field. I'm not sure how that plays out in real life but clearly there are plenty of examples. The shorting rings are nice on that motor for sure, and I see that's a pretty tall gap, will be very efficient.

SME, most subs have undersized ports, the box becomes so large (as you know) to get a proper port, most have to by DIY and very large. What we need is to fill the room with argon gas, then the tuning would be awesome!

As you can see, some of our systems have almost 5mb a just graph data, its really data rich! dammit Josh!

This might be a cached url from the old site the new systems page is #systems with the fragment URL (#) https://data-bass.com/#/systems This URL https://data-bass.com/systems is the API call that gets all the system information. What I should do is change the URL to an api call or something like https://data-bass.com/api/systems What you saw is not a bug, but its very odd that URL got in your browser. I'm honestly confused by that, but could be caching or something :\ Thanks for pointing that out, if nothing else I'll change the URLs for the data api

Good stuff Nathan! Even with subs, its all about sensitivity... as you can now hear! Now get that thing painted.

They make some noice look products This horn probably sounds really good

Can't really measure it without something like a Klipppel. The only other way I know of if to model the motor and coil and FEA the BL curve (I have a tool to do this, but its a lot of work to set up). Mostly you can get a good aprox based of the coil length and gap height, but its very hard to measure those things on a driver that is not torn apart. On parts express, they are rated at 8mm so I would expect at 16mm they are jumping out of the gap and are going to have a lot of distortion. You can model that up in a simulation to try and keep em at 10mm or under. They won't take too much power down low, 20Hz might be asking a lot from these guys.... but then again, at $45 or so, they are really hard to beat!

Its fun to design drivers, I like to start with a frame, work from there. This is an 18 w/ 11.5" spider to account for a oversize size VC like 5 or 6". Soldiworks!

Josh is uber busy! But I think doing some head to heads (maybe even 3 or 4 subs at a time) would really be neat.

Oh ya, I forgot about that sub! Used the MTX right?

That thing is stiff!

@dgage. I wonder if you put the 18" in a 4 cubic foot box if it would make up a little bit of that low end SPL? Also makes it more apples to apples. I want to see the DDS 24S vs the FA 24.0

The lack of shorting rings imo is just not worth it. I understand the concern about another part or failure point, but it can be designed right and has a huge benefit, not just with the fq response but with some very audible distortion. @ 700, it better sound great too! Then again, no driver is without faults and the MTX really brings it in terms of liner xmax.

Gonna scribble down a few notes, I like your effort here and enthusiasm. Here is what I can comment on really quick... I think the first thing here is to throw size out the window and just set up ratio's that make sense for scale. You can always scale up a driver or use 2 smaller ones that are equivalent to a single larger one. In that sense size does not matter too much. For practical purposes (lifting up the subwoofer) a 21 seems to be about the limit (give or take). At the end of a day, if you make a 24" can it really beat two top tier 18's? I think its important to keep that in mind because otherwise, why scale vertical when you scale horizontal -- to use a software term. 6-8kg ... my god! Are you making a subwoofer or a Electric car motor? You reference Digital Designs? Are you talking about the car audio company or the Differential Drive motor? With respect to JBL:DD, it does have high distortion when being over driven due to braking -- not sure its win win. I tend to like BL curves that gradually fall off and a suspension that can stand abuse. It will still distortion but might be less harsh. I'm also an advocate for linear BL if you can get it. I agree whole that pro drivers suck in terms of xmax. I think Josh's new additions this week show the market is moving in this direction but not fast enough imo. honeycomb can be a problem when it breaks, close cell foam is a great core material,. When you make the former into a conductive material you allow current to be introduced there when pushing it through the gap. When that becomes too high relative to the coil itself it causes distortion. This is why most pro drivers are fiberglass, titanium or stainless steel. Note: Carbon fiber is conductive, bad choice here again I think. Car audio drivers which tend to less concern themselves with distortion will go with AL for cooling but they also have thicker coils to offset that distortion (but of course, creating more inductance in the motor itself and hence creating other THD) I'll comment more later...

Awe.. the 2269. This driver has had so much enigma behind it since it first game out, esp. because you couldn't buy it outside of the incredibly expensive Vertec stuff or the god damn Everest itself! That awesome to get the results here. Good work Josh! This was the target when making the Pro 5100.

Nice job Josh! Another powersoft only driver... I honestly didn't think the IPAL was that popular, but it must be! 80 grams more moving mass has to be the lower wire gauge. Its clear because the inductance per ohm is higher and the BL^2/Re is higher, both point to a thicker coil cross section and hence 80 grams of copper.

Indeed, BT speakers are horrid, I think this thing probably puts them all the shame.

We get a sound boks. https://soundboks.com/ And do a head to head against MAUL.

Nice sub, lots of BL. Pretty much BL^2/Re over 300 is norm now for these 21's

Klippel is good at driver in isolation but I do agree, max output and distortion tests with 20,000 watts outside does tell us a different picture with respect to the entire designed system

I like the 1.9mm WW, its about time pro drivers got more, that was the intent with the Pro 5100 we designed back in 2009, took 10 years before that got more mainstream, but its good its happening. SPL still high, but these drivers won't crap out at 20Hz like Eminence of years past. The 6" should have a nice edge in power handling. I still like radial neo more (personal choice), but these puck magnets with wide coils are serious contenders. @radulescu_paul_mircea I'm not so sure the neo quality anything to question, its 3 lbs of neo! Not a small amount by most standards.