MikeDuke

15 minutes ago, minnjd said:

Left hand side is the amplitude of the digital signal (with '0' at the top being the highest it can possibly go).  The bottom is the frequency.

Summarizing that graph: the loudest bass is -20dB at 40Hz, and it drops fast under that (10dB lower is about half as loud to your ears, so the bass at 20Hz is over half the volume of the bass at 40Hz).  So ultimately you will not be blown away by any part of the low end in Shang-Chi.  It's all relatively high in the frequency range, and not all that loud.

Thanks.  That's a crying shame.  Hopefully my Crowson will give me something a bit more to make this a better audio experience.

OK.

I admit I don't know how to read that chart.  I guess I will just wait a see what's it like in my room.

Has anybody had a chance to do Shang Chi.  It's getting blasted over on AVS.

Thanks

2 hours ago, Infrasonic said:

 

 

Ya'll crazy. This was wonderful A/V all around (saw in Dolby Cinema) and I can not wait to get it on UHD/BD to watch at home.

This will probably rate well in bass too. It's time will come.

I hope so.  I just don't want it clipped all to hell because I did enjoy it.  I hope you're right about the bass.  I do remember though that it wasn't ear blasting loud.  Maybe I jumped the gun about the level.  We shall see.  I hope we get a good home release because it does deserve it.

I went with some one who unfortunately, did not see the first one, but I gave a verbal review of what it was about.  This person also likes 2049, after reflection though.  But one thing was the length.  They thought it was too long.  It was long.  2 hours and 43 min is a long movie.  But I keep on saying to myself, what could they have cut.  I won't spoil anything for anybody who hasn't seen it but I do understand.  That is a long running time for a movie like that.  I mean, even the final cut 4k of Blade Runner is just under 2 hours.  I have the BR version of that.  

But I do hope the audio isn't all messed up.  I am holding out hope.  

Agree on all points regarding audio, video and the movie itself minnjd for Blade Runner 2049.  

bmoney, I also heard it was awful.  If you look, those numbers are for the first movie that was just called Transformers.  That's why it says "it's a terrific film".  This one is supposed to be horrible.  I was just wondering if someone was going to put down measurements like they do for other films: 

Level:  

Extension: 
Dynamics: 
Execution

You know, that kind of stuff.  It is supposed to be really bad but it is a Transformer movie.  But, if the audio is really good, then I might just get it for the visual and audio and hope the next ones are better.  Sorry for the confusion.                                        

Has anyone done measurements and other tests that are done on this site for Transformers The Last Knight.  I heard it was not good at all, but that chart does look pretty good.  Hopefully it does not clip that much and I am wondering if I should pick it up just to complete the series.  But you know I am looking for something like 

Transformers:

Level: 4 Stars (111.57dB composite)
Extension: 5 Stars (1Hz)
Dynamics: 4 Stars (25.98dB)
Execution: 4 Stars - This was a terrific film, and got many into the subwoofer realm because of Ironhide's flip. If it wasn't for a single effect, though, this would only be a 19Hz extension film, hence the 4 Star rating. The best part of this film is that most explosions that are wide bandwidth (and therefore do not contribute much to peak levels) extend down into the teens if not single digits, and it is easily palpable.

And to know if it is clipped?

Just wondering

Well, I watched Kong Skull Island this weekend.  Not going to list the level because it was low.  But I thought it sounded really good and the Crowsons did add a nice touch to it.  I give it high marks for audio. I only have a 5.1 system but I used the Atmos sound track so I got the 5.1 TRUHD audio.  I don't know if the DTS-MA track would sound any different (better).  

Max,

what does this mean

" LFE channel clips with sharp corners"

Does that mean it's dangerous to put this really loud for fear of "hurting" the sub or the Crowson?

On 8/16/2017 at 2:22 AM, SME said:

BEQ?  Are you crazy?  I'm not sure I'll be able to play back a BEQed version at my typical reference level.  Look at that near-DC peak that's already pushing up to -20 dBFS. 

Edit: I guess that's what Crowson's are for.  I am starting to think about getting those some day.

Hope to give this a spin soon, with the Crowson .

Actually, the Crowson transducers will extend all the way down to 1Hz.

I have two positioned underneath the rear feet of my sofa (MLP).

Well that's cool to know.  Unless, mine are a bit older and the ones I have only go down to 5hz.  Either way, I get a nice shake and shudder on my chair with the really low stuff  .

Going back to Logan, it looks good to me.  16Hz but it looks like there may be lower content that my Crowson will pick up, and a great movie to boot.  Can't wait to give this one a spin.  Plus no clipping makes it even better.

Thanks.  I double checked and the lowest the crossover goes is 40hz.  Despite the graph, I am still looking forward to watching this.  If it is "like" Interstellar I will be fine with that.  Interstellar sounds fine on my setup and the Crowson does it's job well with that one.

OK. This may be a stupid question and if it is, please feel free to let me know.  In addition to my sub, I have a crowson.  It goes down to 5hz i think.  It looks like this has low bass, juts not at a high level. I have it setup so it only gets frequencies below 35hz.  If that's the case, even though my sub may not get all of the low bass because of that huge spike, my chair should still feel a good portion of it shouldn't it?  Or am I totally wrong.

I still have yet to find a truly proper setting to make them feel seamless, but they make a film seem 'louder' just by being on, as the sensation is nearly identical to my old nearfield sub setup.  Where do you lowpass them, and 2nd or 4th order?

 

JSS

I am not sure if it is a 2nd or 4th order to be honest.  I am using a Butt Kicker BKA-1000 amp so all that stuff is done by the amp. I "think" I have it crossed over at 40hz.  I would need double check that stuff though.  I can try and do that tonight.  But the way it's set up now, it feels pretty seamless to me.  I can check all the settings and post them later.  

I think for most of the people in the home area, it's the picture and not the sound.  I have a friend who just bought a brand new top of the line LG 65in OLED TV (he got it for a good price.)  He has my old setup of speakers.  They were the old Def Tech pro 400's, which were not that bad and my c/l/r 1000 center.  The pro 400's are powered and they can put out some nice bass.  Nothing like we have but he is in a townhouse so he can't go crazy anyway.  But he has not put up surrounds and he doesn't care about them.  I think he probably could if he did some work but to him it's not worth it.  Plus, some of his audio isn't 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS let alone the TRUHD, etc... stuff.  He mainly cares about the picture and that's all.  I am sure there are a lot of people like him.

Now me, I did my best to get the best of both worlds.  I have a great sounding 5.1 setup with a new(ish) 55" 4k TV.  I probably could have gone 60" or 65" but we all have circumstances and one of mine prohibited me from going larger than 55".  It still looks great in my small room.  My point is I wanted to get the best I could for audio and video. I was first only an audio guy and I didn't care about video.  But that changed over time and now I see the value in both.  

I have also been to theaters with blown speakers and others where the sound way too loud.  So I understand what some of these people are saying.  But for the most part, the theaters I go to are not that bad.  Only one time did I leave a movie because the sound was so distorted and we went into a bigger theater that was showing the same theater and it sounded awesome.  And my friend has been to my house and heard my system but that has not seemed to sway him.  It's not that it sounds bad, because it does not.  It's just that he cares more about video than audio.  Anyway, that's what I think.

+1 on the Crowsons Max.  Makes a huge difference on movies that maybe have bass but at a lower level down below.  And makes movies that have high impact down low freaking awesome.  That's my un-scientific review of them.

One is better than none.  I think it's worth it, but maybe instead of arguing for more ULF on the basis of high end home sub systems with ULF capability, which are indeed relatively rare, we should instead argue for ULF monitoring for the people using tactile tranducers.  Tactile transducers are growing in popularity, and are a lot cheaper and more practical for most viewers.  Indeed, many movie theaters are installing them into seats now.  Maybe the best way to get the studios to do more ULF is by encouraging them install TTs in their listening chairs.

I am one of those people.  My Transducer goes down to 5hz.  Let me say, it makes a huge difference on films that we know are great.  But even on films that have low LFE but at a very low level, I still get a nice effect.  As I mentioned before, The Avengers and Thor being 2 of them,  Hell even Avatar was better with a transducer.  But it has made a very big improvement in my system.

Odds are some theater owners complained that ST didn't have enough of that 'slam' bass audiences love so much.  Plus it probably fried a couple of theater sub systems if what Max says is true (about them neglecting to use limiter circuits)

I got you. I guess you mean real movie theaters and not us HT people.  Personally, I would like to have bass that is nice an even.  Not too peaky (if that's a word) and goes very low.  Like I said before, let me control the level if I want more.  I would rather have nice smooth bass that goes low as opposed to really loud bass that does not.  Even if your home system can't reproduce the really low stuff, I would be willing to bet that people would like it.  I mean personally, on my system, I enjoy Thor, The Avengers as well as Star Trek and John Wick.  But that's just me.  

That was a great response.  I just wish that there was more of a standard. I would rather control the loudness level myself.  Just give me a nice, clean soundtrack that maybe goes up a little at the low end since that is the hardest to reproduce.  I mean how can we go from the first Star Trek movie which was awesome to all of sudden thinking we need to really blast the user in ST:ID.  I just don't get it.  At least some still seem good.  

I still don't understand why they can't make a soundtrack that is full range.  Then, in the theater have filter in the chain that rolls off the bass at 30hz.  Or bumps it at 30hz.  Or what ever the F they are doing at 30hz.  Then remove it for the home version.  I know I am not in the business but I mean come on.  This really can't be done?  Maybe it is a cost thing as someone mentioned before but that still does not explain why some movies, even recent ones vary so much.  I don't know.  Maybe I just don't understand how the whole thing works in which case I apologize for my ignorance.

Thanks.  Maybe I am just not tuned to it, my system doesn't play it, or I just don't know what it sounds like but I just could not hear clipping in CA:CW.  I still don't know why they follow the pattern of that steep roll off.  I still enjoyed how it sounded and felt with my system and Crowson.  I hope X Men is a little better.  

Looking forward to possible measurements for Civil War and X-Men Apocalypse.  I will buy X-Men tonight but I don't know when I will 

watch it.

I have seen it twice.  Once in a real IMAX theater and one in Liemax.  I like the non-Imax a bit more only because the Imax really is freaking loud.  I mean, I like it as loud as the next guy, but they just turn it way up.  Both times though, I think there was some nice bass. I have hope that this will be a clean BR, not distorted like crazy and that it contains some decent bass.  I will just add that I saw Jupiter Ascending in a theater and I thought it had zero bass. Well, I think this site proved me wrong on that one so I am willing to wait before I hang my head.