Jump to content

bluescale

Members
  • Posts

    31
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Posts posted by bluescale

  1. On 8/13/2018 at 8:57 AM, Wull said:

     

    Oh I see, that's great news. Cheers for explaining that to me biga6761. 

    Just keep in mind, if you want to use any of the BEQs that don't list S, you'll need to convert Q to S.  I recommend Excel to do the grunt work.  There's a bit of discussion about that earlier in this thread:

     

     

    • Like 2
  2. What formula are you using to convert Q to Slope?

     

    JSS

     

     

    If you solve for S you get

     

    1/((((1/Q)^2-2)/(A+1/A))+1)

     

    If you'll recall, 3II3d00d, I had to come up with a slightly different formula for Excel to work correctly.  I'm not sure why our experiences different, but here's what I finally settled on for S:

     

    S = (A^2*Q^2+Q^2)/(A^2*Q^2-2*A*Q^2+A+Q^2)

     

    For A I used what comes from the Audio EQ Cookbook:

     

    A = 10^(dBgain/40)

     

    More specifically, I set up a spreadsheet where you input the desired dB gain in cell B1 and the target Q value in B2.  Then I have a formula for A in E1 and S in E2.  Here's what those formulas look like:

    • A: 10^(B1/40)
    • S: (E1^2*B2^2+B2^2)/(E1^2*B2^2-2*E1*B2^2+E1+B2^2)
  3. You could run a loopback measurement through those filters to see what the shape looks like.

     

    Sorry if this is seems like asking the obvious, but I want to make sure I understand correctly.  You mean run a loopback measurement of the entire movie to see if the measurement matches what was posted in the graphs?  I could do that.  I suppose I was hoping for something that didn't take ~2 hours to verify.  That, of course, assumes that this is easy for someone to verify my work.

     

    After I posted my question, I realized there is a quick way to do a sanity check.  I took a look at a coupe of the more recent posts where maxmercy posted both S and Q.  In both cases, if I plug his Q value into my Excel spreadsheet, my S and his match.

  4. LCR:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 25Hz, Q 1.13, +6dB

    3. Low Shelf 26Hz, Q 1.13, +6dB

    4. Low Shelf 27Hz, Q 1.13, +6dB

    5. Low Shelf 52Hz, Q  0.5, +5dB

     

    LFE:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 18Hz, Q 1.13, +6.5dB (3 filters for 19.5dB correction)

    3. Low Shelf 36Hz, Q 0.5, +5dB

     

    Surrounds:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 22Hz Q 1.13, +7dB

    3. Low Shelf 23Hz Q 1.13, +7dB

    4. Low Shelf 24Hz Q 1.13, +7dB

    5. Low Shelf 25Hz Q 1.13, +7dB

    6. Low Shelf 22Hz Q 0.5, +8dB

     

    Pacific Rim is now near 5-Star with this correction, and from the opening scene with 'Axehead', you know it right away.  I highly recommend people try this one.  MiniDSP nano-AVR .xml will be coming when I get time, or program an .xml yourself with the data above and miniDSP's spreadsheet:

     

    Biquad Spreadsheet 

     

     

    JSS

     

    I'm finally going back and redoing my BEQ filters for JRiver by converting Q to S.  I'd love it if someone could take a look at my calculations and make sure I've done the conversions correctly:

     

    LCR:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 25Hz, S 2.35, +6dB

    3. Low Shelf 26Hz, S 2.35, +6dB

    4. Low Shelf 27Hz, S 2.35, +6dB

    5. Low Shelf 52Hz, S 0.51, +5dB

     

    LFE:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 18Hz, S 2.32, +6.5dB (3 filters for 19.5dB correction)

    3. Low Shelf 36Hz, S 0.51, +5dB

     

    Surrounds:

     

    1. Gain -7dB

    2. Low Shelf 22Hz S 2.28, +7dB

    3. Low Shelf 23Hz S 2.28, +7dB

    4. Low Shelf 24Hz S 2.28, +7dB

    5. Low Shelf 25Hz S 2.28, +7dB

    6. Low Shelf 22Hz S 0.53, +8dB

  5. the next build of MC22 allows S<=5 (which equates to Q~=1.73), there might be some instability in the output if the corner frequency is set to 5Hz but it seems ok above this (not sure if measurement issue on my part)

     

    Awesome.  Now I have a reason to upgrade the MC22.

  6. DO NOT add a house curve to this unless you know your system can handle it.  Adding a steep house curve will bloat the midbass and the score will sound unnatural.  This BEQ assumes a gentle (if any) house curve, maximum of -6 to -10dB downslope from 20Hz to 20kHz, with no aggressive slope-up in the midbass region.

     

    What do you consider an aggressive house curve.  Is something based on the Harman curve aggressive?

     

    933859b1_SynthesisTarget.jpeg

     

    That's not my exact curve, but it's the general idea.  

  7. :(

     

    It looks like JRiver's 1.0 limitation for Q (or really S, but Q in the UI) means many of these BassEQ settings can't be properly implemented.  I had previously created all of mine in JRiver 19, before they implemented notification that values over 1.0 are ignored.  I've recently upgraded to JRiver 20, and while it imported my old BEQ filters, including ones with a Q>1, if I try to edit it, I get an error message notifying me of the problem.  

     

    One of the best features in JRiver is how easily it allowed me to implement BEQ.  This is a blow.

  8. S=1/(((1/Q)^2)-2)/(A+(1/A))+1) - I didn't bother to factor this out myself, so I'm just going to assume you did it correctly  :) 

    where 

    A = 10^(dBgain/40)

     

    I guess I'll have to use Excel to simplify this, unless you know of any great online calculators that simplify this process.

     

    Excel barked at that formula for S.  There was an extra parenthesis, and for the life of me, I couldn't get it to result in ~1.7.  Here's what I came up with:

     

    S = (A^2*Q^2+Q^2)/(A^2*Q^2-2*A*Q^2+A+Q^2)

     

    It comes back with a value of ~1.7, so it matches what you found.

  9. the jriver devs haven't commented one way or the other but my testing says they say Q on the dialog but it is implemented as S. 

     

    How would one go about testing this to know for sure?

     

    I went back and listened to a bit of Pacific Rim with and then without the modifications recommended by maxmercy.  Even if the slope I'm using is different than intended, the result of a flawed BEQ is significantly more pleasing and engaging than the bass response on disc.

     

    To make sure I understand correctly, assuming you're correct about Q in the JRiver interface really being S, the correct way to calculate S would be the following formula:

     

    S=1/(((1/Q)^2)-2)/(A+(1/A))+1) - I didn't bother to factor this out myself, so I'm just going to assume you did it correctly  :) 

    where 

    A = 10^(dBgain/40)

     

    I guess I'll have to use Excel to simplify this, unless you know of any great online calculators that simplify this process.

  10. A low shelf with this Q is not supported directly by jriver. It's low shelf is described in terms of Q but, as I understand it, it really mean S (shelf factor) and it limits this to a max of 1. 

     

    I'm just getting back to this thread (sorry for the delay, MikeDude!), and just noticed this exchange.  Can you explain?  Does this mean that all the BEQ that I've done for JRiver using the low shelf Q values in this thread are invalid?

  11. It can be done. The feature to load/save DSP was introduced in MC20 and is described as

     

    NEW: DSP presets can be loaded per file by setting the DSP field (the list is from Load/Save on DSP Studio).

     

    This means you can enter it once, save it and then load it on a per film basis. Alternatively you set the value in the DSP field in your library. However if you do it this way, bear in mind that it is implemented in a slightly crap way atm, it loads it when you play it but doesn't unload it back to a default state when you stop. This means you'd have to update the DSP field on every other track with your default setup. Whether this works for you depends on your setup, I think it plays particularly badly with multiple zones for example.

     

    Unless I'm misunderstand what you're saying, I think you've over complicating zones.  I simply created a default zone that applies to all films, another zone that applies to all music, and then zones specifically for each film I BEQ.  In my default rule, I tell it to apply to all video file types unless it matches one of the other zones.  The  only caveat is that each time you create a zone, you have to update the other zones to ignore it.  It might sound a bit complicated if you haven't done it before, Mike, but it only adds about a minute to my time to create and update the zone rules each time.

     

    Like I said in my previous post, when I've got a little bit more time, and a little less alcohol in me, I'll see about creating a simple primer.

  12. Hi Mike.  I use JRiver to implement BEQ filters, and it works really well.  Some movies, like Pacific Rim and The Avengers, are a completely different experience with BEQ (assuming you have a sub that can dig deeper than 30 Hz).

    I create a zone for each film I want to BEQ, and then use the zone switch feature in JRiver to automatically switch zones when I start the move.  I'm not near my HTPC right now, and I've had quite a bit to drink (celebrating the Cubs' victory in the NLDS against the Cardinals), but if you're having a hard time figuring out how to implement it, I might be able to put together a short HowTo in the next couple of days.

    • Like 1
  13. If there is enough demand, I can do request BEQs, but it would require financial compensation, as it takes me at least 8 hours to do it right for a feature-length film.  I'm not sure there is enough demand out there for that.

     

    How much compensation are we talking about?  I'd love to have a BEQ for HTTYD 2.  I can't believe how disappointing the bass for that film is.  Even my 10 year old son noticed.  I had to check to see if the sub was on.  With those massive alpha dragons, my room should have been shaking.

  14. For the films in the Alien trilogy, what are the SFM filters provided for?  I use JRiver for BEQ.  I'm assuming I should use the MiniDSP liters rather than the SFM, correct?

     

    Also, what is the benefit of reducing the gain, setting filters, and then increasing the gain again?

  15. Avengers was excellent as well.  An added bonus was that I didn't really detect much clipping in the center channel.  I can't believe any self respecting sound professionals would let that get through.

     

    I'm not a fan of TF2, but I'll have to check Scott Pilgrim out soon.  I'm really looking forward to Kvalsvoll's Alien BEQ, as that's one of my favorite movies.  I've watched it so many times, I know the soundtrack very well.

  16.  

    Pacific Rim is now near 5-Star with this correction, and from the opening scene with 'Axehead', you know it right away.  I highly recommend people try this one.  MiniDSP nano-AVR .xml will be coming when I get time, or program an .xml yourself with the data above and miniDSP's spreadsheet:

     

    You, sir, are amazing.  I don't know what else to say.  

     

    I've watched a couple other BEQ movies, and generally felt there was an improvement in the sound.  This was the first time I felt it was a whole new experience.  It's not the same film any more.  If only there was a way to deal with clipping in the center channel, this would be a perfect soundtrack.

     

    I'm off to check out the Avengers BEQ.

    • Like 1
  17. Thank you for the feedback, and it is interesting to see you use JRiver.

     

    I hope the BEQ information provided is compatible and useful with JRiver, the MiniDSP filter parameters should be compatible.  

     

    You're welcome.  I've had no problems implementing the BEQ filters in JRiver.  Basically, I create a custom zone specifically for the movie I'm going to BEQ, and then create the filters for that movie in the custom zone.  I then use ZoneSwitch to automatically switch to the custom zone whenever I play that movie.

  18.  

    2. Low Shelf 5Hz, Q of 1.0, gain -3dB (x4 filters for total of 12dB)

    3. Low Shelf 27.5Hz, Q of 1.0, gain +3dB (x4 filters for total of 12dB)

     

    Just to clarify, does this mean adding four identical low shelf filters for both of these steps?  Is this beneficial only for miniDSP, or will this be true for all PEQs (as mentioned before, I'm using Jriver)?

  19. I updated the first post with the films to be BassEQ'ed.  I'll try to post up one every week.  Has anyone tried to do this with the nanoAVR, or am I wasting my time posting this stuff up?

     

    JSS

     

    I've been lurking in this forum for some time now.  I've used your BEQ settings in JRiver, so thank you for all your work.  From my perspective, at least, it's not a waste of time  :) .

×
×
  • Create New...