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FOH

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Everything posted by FOH

  1. FOH
    Thanks, I see that now, I mistakenly thought it was Thom's work. I believe saw his name attached to Brave here, or somewhere. But you're right, .. Rydstrom is credited everywhere I look for the Sound Design, and Re-Recording Mixer. It's so, so good too. I've also seen it credited that Thom is over the entire Sound Design dept at Skywalker. I'd love a full blown tour of the facility, behind the scenes and all. Flight, was a good movie rental, with well executed sound. But it's not a bombastic LFE monster,...not even close. Sure, there's the primary plot signature scene, and it seemed fine. However the best element IMO was the spot-on timely implementation of rock music tracks, that punctuate and perfectly convey the powerful emotional component at play in key moments. I've not seen Skyfall except for the IMAX digital presentation (which was quite fun). It's on the list for home rental, if I catch it in time, then I submit a vote.
  2. FOH
    I'm with you on Brave, superbly crafted, quite enjoyable. These animated/CG releases just don't get the love from many of the LF/ULF enthusiasts. When Joe Six-Pack/ "12 inch drivers are faster than any 18" sits down to enjoy his two hour movie time, the Pixar stuff just doesn't make the cut. I mean he's looking for the un-rated, directors cut with gun-play, drugs and explosions, Tarantino-esque inter-woven storylines, full frontal Sharon Stone style/grill on grill cooking. So, staring at the Family Video shelf, there's Brave right by Bullet to the Head/Un-Rated Directors Cut, just it ain't happenin' All kidding aside, Brave really is well executed. Randy Thom, doing what he does. An entirely immersive experience. Last weekend we enjoyed Flight, suprisingly good to me. I'd not seen much promo at all except the premise. Well cast, spot on w/Goodman, Washington, and after the film credits began rolling, thinking to myself how nice the sound was (some tasty rock-n-roll), there it was; Sound by Randy Thom. Good film.
  3. FOH
    My wife and I loved Drive, .. and without giving anything away for those having yet to see it, there is some temendously well crafted tension, punctuated with some kick-ass dynamics. Yep, it's a good one.
  4. FOH
    Yeah, I've looked around to no avail ....
  5. FOH
    The rating system here is great, and yeah, miles ahead for sure. Please, in no way am I suggesting otherwise. I only commented because of comments soliciting opinion. I don't feel compelled to even suggest change, I'm delighted to have access to this forum and it's devoted contributors. I stated; "may need to reflect this in some way" that's all, how? I don't know. I'm not a ULF fan, I'm just a straight up fan Thanks for everything,
  6. FOH
    If the metric utilized dictates it should get the max 5 star rating, and there are subjectively better ... and most importantly measurably stronger performers, then the rating system may need to reflect this in some way. I like the War of the Worlds for the weighted, spectrally bottom heavy LF/ULF effect. It's really well executed and properly conveys the sense of impending doom. Now, WoTW is well executed throughout in my opinion,...as the accompanying effects plunge down into the room pressure, underwater, fluttering like sensation in my room. Conversely, there's few if anything as taxing as the the big finale of How to Train Your Dragon. Again, like WotW, the entire release possesses these superbly executed effects, that seemingly plunge down to single digits quite often throughout the film. This is something Bosso has touched upon before iirc. Both well recorded, and properly generated special effects, oftentimes have deeply extended waveform components easily down to 10hz or below. This is how we would encounter these sounds in life, likewise, experiencing these effects full stop in our HTs, is most apt to elicit the intended effect of the film-making team. Way off on a tangent there, ...I know, I'm preaching to the choir. My point I intended when I began typing, it would appear to me that Looper, as enjoyable as it was and as well as it graphed, is not the demanding monster that the above two examples are. ---------- Anyone familiar with a forum community, etc., of theater enthusiasts, whereby some reviews of overall faciliy quality, especially sound system, operation practices and the like? I know IMAX houses are typically a safe bet, and some non IMAX theaters can offer up a solid experience as well. However, I'm looking for some good info on presentation, operation practices, etc. Anybody aware of such a community? I'd like to go see Zero Dark Thirty. The filmaking team should collectively allow this thing to have some fine sound, nice deep LF/ULF effect. It appears director, Kathryn Bigelow, has re-assembled much of her Hurt Locker team for this effort, .. and that's cool as Hurt Locker has some fine sound. The sound design, and re-recording mixer Ottoson, did Battle LA, and Hurt Locker. The sound effects editor Gilmore, did Amazing Spiderman, Underworld Awakening, Terminator Salvation. So, all said, it appears as if it may have all the ingredients ..... let's cross our fingers. Thanks
  7. FOH
    Good points Bosso. And thanks for running those. In those images, looks to me like there's some filtering onset at aproximently 13hz on down. Now that's just from a cursory view of those uploads Bosso submitted, but looks that way. It makes me curious what the remaining effects measure,...I'd suspect they may appear HP'd @~13hz too. There's a measure of uniformity in the graphs, whereby nothing plunges any deeper ... who knows. I'd say those graphs coincide roughly with my subjective feel of the release. No way does it compare to the big, reference LF/ULF monsters. Certainly not every scene, but I like a light touch wrt how often the big/deep effects occur. What effects were there I thought was fine. The deep stuff was sparse, but "nicely extended and stout" were my notes. You're right Bosso, WotW and HTTYD, not even close. I think there's some filtration for whatever reason/in whatever form. Thoughts?
  8. FOH
    Just watched Brave last night, superb sound in general, just superb. Not suprising, as the Skywalker Sound players involved are the finest. Also, 7.1 release btw, with well executed fly-over type effects. Best rental I've seen in some time. I believe Brave is the first release availed/optimized and mixed for Dolby Atmos. I've become more and more sensitive to overall mix quality recently, and this relese just seems flawlessly executed. IMO, it's that good. It's also got the "Maximizer" tool in the menu, for many things, including channel to channel balance.
  9. FOH
    Maxmercy, I will give a listen to TDKR, and lt you know, as those really are interesting findings. FWIW; ...when we rent, we rent BR from Family Video. We enjoyed Looper a few days ago. And yeah, with my ample sub system, subjectively it sure seemed nicely extended and quite stout. Max, you're spot on, as it's an interestingly fresh take on the idea.
  10. FOH
    Regarding The DKR, I'm going to have to rent this to find out what you're referring to. "The sound is done poorly ... lack of crispness and overall 'honky' and 'compressed' sound ... it lacks quality" The above, for a major release, seems bizzare to me. I mean, regardless of budget, the sound found on DVD/BD releases of films is typically acceptable in the audible characteristics of "crispness", "honky", and "compressed sounding". That's just not acceptable, wth is going on? Especially the high passing, don't get it ... then again never heard/read it really explained by anyone. Now this; "does the damn score have to be blaring at nearly 95dB while dialogue is going on?" can be merely artistic decision, mistake, who knows ... whatever. Different strokes
  11. FOH
    Great work Bosso, we enjoyed Recall a couple nights ago, ... pulse effect, room ripples and all. Can't really speak to the BD vs DVD levels, as we always rent BluRays from Family Video, with no issues. Or we buy BD from Sam's Club (killer pricing). Occasionally, we may get a comedy in DVD form. We did enjoy the comedy The Watch on BD. And without any spoilers, I'll say few comedies rock this type of LF effects, .. a fun romp. Peace
  12. FOH
    Wow, Spidey has got some cojones, no? That chapter 16 effect is sweet, ... I remember it, remember you mentioning it before too..., but now seeing all that sub-20 weight, I'd like to experience that again.
  13. FOH
    Me Soapbox I've expressed this previously in the thread at AVS, however I feel it's worthy of another reminder. A word about "The Pacific", Iwo Jima scene, etc.. ; I realize the entire point of this endeavor is determining the actual low frequency energy contained in various soundtracks etc., thus the empirical over the subjective. I must say that my wife and I found The Pacific to be a phenomenal film, in every possible way one could imagine. So much so, that I wouldn't want someone to just see a certain scene for it's LF characteristics. This film is so damn powerful in it's full context, yeah that's a big commitment time wise, but I highly recommend it. To merely see one episode, or one scene, man you're really doing yourself a dis-service. I just think the full weight and impact that's brought upon by hours of character development, would be lessened if experienced in a abbreviated version. It pulls you in, whether you're tearful, or cringing at the horror of conflict, or even feeling proudly patriot, it is impactful like few films I've ever experienced. Plus, it possesses a kick-ass soundtrack! I know FilmMixer had his hands in on this one, and I really dug it. Thanks Me Soapbox
  14. FOH
    Great work, thanks for all that. Yeah, the BD M&C is truly a travesty, viewing that FR graph image really drives it home ...... anyone aware of any real discussion/reasoning for this highpass? I do recalll talk of a mistake etc, just nothing definitive. If it was a mistake, which I doubt, that's inadequate monitoring. If intentional, that's inadequate intelect. Isn't there a regional BD that does rock the full bandwidth? I recall something like this, but I'm really unsure. I also remember a discussion whereby some enthusiasts, enthusiasts judgment I've come to respect, said despite the high-pass that they preferred the BD. This made me buy both the DVD, and BluRay, to perform my own comparo. They're both un-opened, as I'm working my way thru my big queue of experiments . I've viewed M&C some time ago,...via a rental, don't recall which version. ------------ Maybe this has been covered, but any plans for The Incredibles? The Simpson's Movie? These are both solid work. I remember distinctly after viewing the Simpsons release on DVD, being quite pleasantly surprised by the LF effects in general. Only to discover Randy Thom did the sound design, ... made perfect sense. Prior to viewing, I merely figured it'd be a motion picture length Simpsons TV episode,...with all the accompanying production standards. This thing is a gem. Love me some Data-Bass .... Merry Christmas
  15. FOH
    Marc, Thanks for the contribution, and candor. I realize you're not on the equipment/tech side, your skillset is however quite focused and world class nonetheless, as evidenced by your body of work. Mics? Non issue, ... The guys at Telarc had no problem capturing high level ULF 35 years ago. There's a correct mic for every application, regardless of freq, regardless of level. "you're talking about 15 cycles, and I'm talking about the other 20,000" ... The LFE spec is down to 3hz-120. Spectrally, a two octave span is equally as wide from either 5hz-20hz, 10hz-40hz, is just as significantly wide as the 2.5khz to 10khz octave spread. I know you're aware of this, just a friendly reminder. This argument of percentage of systems not being capable, .... then to go on regarding more channels etc, .... in my opinion that doesn't make sense to me. Much more to discuss, I'll leave those issues for others. Again Marc, much respect, thanks for your input. It provides invaluable perspective otherwise unattainable. And I'd absolutely love to experience your workspace, so thanks for everything. Kevin
  16. FOH
    Nice, M&C DVD should be quite interesting, Hurt Locker as well. Both outstanding films (especially Hurt Locker for me), and the LF/ULF just takes them to another level. I hope Bigelow's upcoming Zero Dark Thirty is packin' a superb soundtrack. Maxmercy, I'm not as concerned with the Strauss piece, as I am the 1812, but I very much appreciate the consideration given. The bottom octaves of the Strauss work are at a low to moderate level. Great work, now I've lost track, but has The Incredibles been analyzed? It's got some energy down toward the bottom octaves. Thanks
  17. FOH
    "Telarc's 1812 Overture" ..... the original, not the SACD, one of my all time fave demos. Our housefull, at Thanksgiving, wanted one music track for demo over the main system, I selected this one. That track is akin to a fine Jazz vocalist. One that knows the proper mic technique and the vocal dynamics to entirely quiet a room, ... and then slowly build to a spine tingling crescendo. When those canons fire off with that initial ignition crack, then the LF boom that follows, it's incredible ands there's nothing lke it. It would be interesting to see the spectral content of some of the classic LF effects in music releases. In addition to the 1812 Oveture, Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra opening organ note is 32 hz, but may have some 16hz energy in there too. I think the score calls for double bass, contra-bassoon, organ. With current EDM, who knows how low some of the content is. In my house, both American Idol, and X-Factor are big hits (spot on target demographic). Fortunately we record everything so no commercials and no lame performances are tolerated (I blow thru episodes in about 15 minutes, much to the dismay of my teen kids ). But, whoever is responsible, the kick drum often has this phenomenal hot, deep deep sub synthesis effect added to the fundamental, ....that is really a wild effect. Nothing like a kick drum, but whatever ... fun. Never heard anything like it. ---------- Back to this neutering issue. We need the perspective of a leading sound designer. Our sample size is too small to call it a trend. Too scary to even think that. Who knows, loudness war analogy seems plausible. Thanks
  18. FOH
    What's the general consensus at which point in the process whereby this neutering transpires? A release that's high-passed across the board, is one thing. However, a release whereby exceptions are made and a single scene possesses the full extension (and all the realism that accompanies fully extended effects), that should be afforded to the entire soundtrack ..... makes no sense. Total bullshit.
  19. FOH
    I too saw it in digital IMAX, ... what a disappointment to discover there's no deep LF/ULF foundation to those effects. Thanks for running that Bosso.
  20. FOH
    The first time we viewed HTTYD, I was stunned. Not only is the LF effects demanding, plentiful etc, the soundtrack is just superbly executed IMO. In addition to the big 3hz wallops, the nuance and minutia are wonderfully satisfying. WRT the big finale, it's the scene I often recommend it as just about as demanding as it gets. I also remember the spectros someone put up @AVS, likely Bosso. Ever since I saw those, in addition to recommending the film, that scene etc., I'd include those link to those graphs illustrating just how wicked those effects are. Wonderful film as well. Thanks for running those. DAY-Ummm is right.
  21. FOH
    Interesting explanation. Everytime I encounter a dial-norm discussion, I merely gloss over it as it's not really compelling forum material to me. However, in this case I'm glad I read the above and I think I'll seek out more info so I can fully get a handle on industry trends etc. What sucks is the film industry has dissed their music counterparts for less standardization in general. Thanks for that
  22. FOH
    Regarding Amazing Spider-Man: "Dynamics - 5 Stars (28.3dB) This makes up for some of the loss in level, and the bass is used in the film well, with hardly any <20Hz in the film until Peter gets bitten, making for effects with real 'weight' after he does." You stating it that way I immediately thought of the effect used in The Wizard of Oz, whereby Dorothy's entire dream sequence is in Technicolor, reverting back to sepia toned black and white upon awakening. The use of color was still seen as a special effect, not unlike the arsenal of effects at the disposal of today' film-makers. Sorry about the spoiler, it is however over 70 years old. Looking forward to viewing Spidey
  23. FOH
    Again gentlemen, to all involved, .... thanks so much for the effort put forth. There's no substitute for raw, by-the-numbers analysis of the LF/ULF contained in these releases. Until one really spends the time to correlate what freqs are associated with each particular scene or effect, it's difficult even for the savvy enthusiast to fully grasp the freqs involved. These graphs are great tools. Many of us can guess pretty close wrt freq/effect, but I really dig printing these graphs, and follow along as the scene plays out,....subjectively analyzing the playback while visually correlating the spectral components contained in the soundtrack. I've been doing this since I first encountered these types of spectral weight/frequency graphs. I believe one of the first film soundtracks I recall following along with, printed graph in hand, was the Flight of the Phoenix ('04) plane crash scene. Over and over I followed along during playback, carefully correlating each audible effect used to the visual counterpart. ---------- To the work you're doing here, just fantastic stuff. Certainly no complaint, but as an aside, I would enjoy a "single most demanding scene" metric of some sort. Myself, without any graphing capability, (however crudely) I've examined amperage draw on a single sub amplifier (EP4K) in such an attempt. It's somewhat akin to an "area under the curve" approach, but admittedly the methodology I used was fraught with potential error. All said, it's quite the task to capture and document current demand accurately. But it's always stimulating to put the thinking cap on and plunge head first into a curiosity. Without question, in the world of performance subwoofer systems, measurements trump all. Thanks for all the work gentlemen.
  24. FOH
    Great job guys, I've been following along. I've always been interested in spectral weight, especially the relative spectral weight of certain scenes to be used for system evaluation and proper gain structure. So thanks to all involved.
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