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awedio

iPAL enclosure details

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Can we take this a step further?  I've decided to go forward with diy and I have questions.  First, I own 1 Ns18 992-4.  I need 3 more to feel comfortable.  Powersoft k2/3 will get the job done.  Big boxes.

But wait.

IpalMod seems to be available in other countries to anyone that can click add to cart.  We can get the B&C Ipal here in the US.  Can the placement of the sensor be handled by a diy'er?  I really want the smaller enclosures.  Test mules crossed over high for getting the most out of my ls50w's and a couple more experimental speakers in mind.  

Again.  My question: Is the ipalmod route (sensor placement) feasible for the diy'er.

Thanks

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Thanks for the great feedback!  Not. Guessing you have to belong to a secret squirrel group to get a discussion going?

Thanks for the info over the years.  Won't bother posting again.

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This is not a customer service center where you are owed prompt attention. I don't have time to answer every post and PM,  or read this forum every day. It sometimes takes me a week to get back with people.

Very few other people have any experience with this system. When no one has experience with it they can't help answer your questions.

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On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:00 AM, awedio said:

@Ricci do you have internal details (aka bracing) for the enclosure you built to test iPAL http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=138

 I don't have models of that enclosure, but it's just your typical skeletonized window bracing. A couple large window braces with holes to clear the driver motors bracing the Y/Z axis. Other smaller pieces to lock the window braces in place and lock into the baffles in the X axis. I might have a picture buried somewhere.

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3 minutes ago, awedio said:

No worries.

Planning to build something similar, I'll just keep it real simple.

Cool. It's just a simple sealed build and it is fairly small considering 2 21" drivers, so bracing can be fairly simple but effective as well. That enclosure was originally for 18's and I had to modify and chop it up a bit to get the dual 21's in there.

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Are you using 2 mods in 1 enclosure? 1 may not have "enough" to max out 2 21's but the extra module may only grant another 3 to 4 dB.

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According to Powersoft, 1 mod can be used.

You are correct, the extra mod is only "worth" 3 to 4 dB...but those are some serious bragging rights!!:D

The question I have (and I'm waiting for an answer) is what to do with the DPC sensor if you use 1 or 2 mods?

**Not to side track...I was looking at the M-Drive datasheet....14,970W x 1 at 2 ohms....'nuff said

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I'll recommend you to use a single module for both drivers in series. It is more than enough for them. It will exceed the nominal excursion of the drivers at 25 mm at about 20 hz with all losses and nonlinearities accounted for. Also ,the DPC sensor needs to be extremely close to the acoustic center and that's why I think that enclosure is not best suited for this application. You would better use a manifolded enclosure, this way your acoustic center is very close to both diaphragms and the feedback loop gets more accurate. Having 2 modules in this tiny box is a huge waste.

Also ,the M-Drive modules are not available without the motor and this system is hard to get and to implement.

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@radulescu_paul_mircea Your points are well taken.

The simplicity of the dual - opposed is really what I like.

My goal is to first try that before exploring other options.

btw, I had no plans to attempt the M-Drive, I was just drooling over the power output!

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I believe it could work with a DO box like this with a single sensor, but it is possible that the slightly delayed and lower level output from the other driver may cause it to become unstable or go haywire. Would need to do verification testing.

M-drive module is much more up my alley...Unfortunately very difficult to get.

Also note that the modules will not produce any amplification at all unless the DPC sensor is detected. It will not operate with out a sensor for each module.

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That M-Drive is a true beast, the way it can swing volts and amps is exactly what a driver like M-Force needs. It is not exactly double the IPal though.

@Ricci

,What do you mean, will you get your hands on one? That would be great, to see what it's capable of. 

The DPC sensor was firstly made to be installed into the driver dustcap, but the added complexity wasn't worth it on those wavelengths. But still, for it to be able to truly function, it needs to be as close as possible to the acoustic radiator. It can be defeated if the feedback gain is set at -100 dB in Power Control Manager, so if you want to use the amps only on Virtual Transducer without DPC, you can. I haven't tried to use it without connecting the sensor.

@awedio I have tested the IPal module. I own one and I'll add 3 more soon . But go pro audio use

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I have one Ipal module and 4 21Ipal woofers. I have been unable to get an M-drive module or system so far. I haven't tried hard to do so though. I could purchase an off the shelf sub but I'm not paying that kind of money.

Paul I did not know that it would run without a sensor connected if the feedback is set at the lowest setting. Good to know. Is this confirmed in the literature or did you try it?

Awedio I talked with Nathan Funk about the Ipal mod years ago and he had tried it on a DO sealed system and managed to blow one up with sine waves below 15Hz. I've never tried it on a sealed system yet but he told me that it limited the power below 15Hz and did not do well dumping current into those frequencies with a 1ohm system. That's just what I heard.

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Here's a reply I got back from PS:

"Using 2x21IPAL from B&C with one IpalMod only would be risky, simply because the impedance is 1ohm and paralleling the transducers would result in overloading the amplifier.
 
For double 21s enclosures we usually suggest using the eighteensound 21iD (2ohm impedance).
 
If you should proceed using the 21iD, you’d only need ONE pressure sensor, mounted on either baffles."

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21 minutes ago, Ricci said:

I have one Ipal module and 4 21Ipal woofers. I have been unable to get an M-drive module or system so far. I haven't tried hard to do so though. I could purchase an off the shelf sub but I'm not paying that kind of money.

You would use an off the shelf sub with the M-Drive? Not sure I understand.

What are you planning to do with the iPalMod & 4 21's?

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23 minutes ago, Ricci said:

Awedio I talked with Nathan Funk about the Ipal mod years ago and he had tried it on a DO sealed system and managed to blow one up with sine waves below 15Hz. I've never tried it on a sealed system yet but he told me that it limited the power below 15Hz and did not do well dumping current into those frequencies with a 1ohm system. That's just what I heard.

Wonder if he was using 1, 2 or no sensors?

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5 minutes ago, awedio said:

You would use an off the shelf sub with the M-Drive? Not sure I understand.

What are you planning to do with the iPalMod & 4 21's?

4 21's are in my 2 Skhorn cabs. Done...

Ipalmod I'm not sure. Eventually want to do some comparative testing of with and without the feedback correction to document how much improvement it makes. May eventually get another plus the heatsinks and install them as plate amps in the Skhorns.

I meant that finished M-force subs with a driver and module built in are available from a few companies. This would be one way to get the driver and module, without dealing with Powersoft engineering / support,  but I'm not paying that much money.

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2 minutes ago, Ricci said:

I meant that finished M-force subs with a driver and module built in are available from a few companies. This would be one way to get the driver and module, without dealing with Powersoft engineering / support,  but I'm not paying that much money.

Wouldn't it be less $$ to get all those parts directly from PS vs buying them as finished goods from a 3rd party?

I can only imagine the "damage" that could be done with that 30" M-Force..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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On 2/5/2018 at 4:34 PM, atltx said:

Thanks for the great feedback!  Not.

Oh no problem, good sir just......... heeeeeyyyy wait a minute!

On 2/5/2018 at 4:34 PM, atltx said:

 

Guessing you have to belong to a secret squirrel group to get a discussion going?

You didn't let anyone else post before you replied to yourself. Looks like a discussion is going now.

On 2/5/2018 at 4:34 PM, atltx said:

Thanks for the info over the years.  Won't bother posting again.

You're welcome and .... thanks. ;)

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More from Powersoft:

 

"Should you decide to use 2x IpalMods, I’d suggest using separate acoustical volumes for the two transducers.
This leads to safe and profitable use of the pressure sensors for both response correction and efficiency drops detection."
  • Like 1

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