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iPAL enclosure details

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2 hours ago, awedio said:

@RicciThe DO sealed box you used to test the iPals, did you have 2 separate volumes or single airspace?

Single airspace. Cab was originally for 1 18"driver.

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5 hours ago, awedio said:

More from Powersoft:

 

"Should you decide to use 2x IpalMods, I’d suggest using separate acoustical volumes for the two transducers.
This leads to safe and profitable use of the pressure sensors for both response correction and efficiency drops detection."

This makes a lot of sense.  If you have separate amps and separate control loops interacting with one another via a shared air space, you definitely risk some weird behavior.  Depending on how their system is designed, there may even be potential for instability where the two amps fight each other in an escalating way.  Not good.

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6 hours ago, Ricci said:

Single airspace. Cab was originally for 1 18"driver.

Separate airspace for each driver shouldn't have any negative impact on performance?

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5 hours ago, awedio said:

Separate airspace for each driver shouldn't have any negative impact on performance?

Only in so far as you lose a slight amount of volume by having a solid panel between the two air spaces.

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1 minute ago, SME said:

Only in so far as you lose a slight amount of volume by having a solid panel between the two air spaces.

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

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On 2/7/2018 at 11:36 PM, Ricci said:

Paul I did not know that it would run without a sensor connected if the feedback is set at the lowest setting. Good to know. Is this confirmed in the literature or did you try it?

I've just tried it. It doesn't start if it has the mic disconnected, it goes into protect at power up. 

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On 2/7/2018 at 11:36 PM, Ricci said:

I have one Ipal module and 4 21Ipal woofers.

If you have the module, can you please tell me how noisy is it? Mine are terrible on this spec, the amp generates a very powerful hiss and buzz through the driver. I've even disconnected the coolers to see if the interference is from there but nothing happened.

Also, I haven't managed to connect it with power control manager software, I've tried it with two PC's and with 2 different serial adapters.

I don't know if you saw that they have changed the specs on this one. They reduced the max Voltage from 195 to 180 peak, the current also and the power is now 4500 watts at 2 ohms. In the software the maximum power is 5000 VA PK, current is 100 and true power is 700 watts over a maximum of 3 seconds. This means it is way lower than a channel from a K20 and TBH, if a SpeakerPower SP 6000 is capable to sustain that power for 4 seconds and then to drop to 2400 watts , that is way more that what this one is capable of.

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Hey Paul it is noisy. I had heard this from others before I tried it. Nathan Funk mentioned it to me first. You are yet another commenting on it. Looks like it is an artifact of the system. It kind of prevents it from being useful in a quiet home environment or studio. It is unfortunate.

I didn't know they had clamped down on the output capability in the software and derated it a little. I was a bit disappointed with how it compares to a k20 too. Mine also seems to run quite hot. Does yours?  The SP amps will kick its butt on a sustained power basis. No doubt about that and they are much cheaper here. I just wish the SP amps had a more modern dsp front end.

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On 2/28/2018 at 10:58 AM, radulescu_paul_mircea said:

If you have the module, can you please tell me how noisy is it? Mine are terrible on this spec, the amp generates a very powerful hiss and buzz through the driver. I've even disconnected the coolers to see if the interference is from there but nothing happened.

Also, I haven't managed to connect it with power control manager software, I've tried it with two PC's and with 2 different serial adapters.

I don't know if you saw that they have changed the specs on this one. They reduced the max Voltage from 195 to 180 peak, the current also and the power is now 4500 watts at 2 ohms. In the software the maximum power is 5000 VA PK, current is 100 and true power is 700 watts over a maximum of 3 seconds. This means it is way lower than a channel from a K20 and TBH, if a SpeakerPower SP 6000 is capable to sustain that power for 4 seconds and then to drop to 2400 watts , that is way more that what this one is capable of.

I found the same issue and that's why we never used it in production as most of our products are used in quiet environments, also connecting to the controls I recall being tricky.

I am not surprised that they derated it, hopefully that means there are some "hardwired" protections now implemented, because you could set it up in the DSP to be able to blow traces right off the main amp board with over current :wacko:. This I found out the hard way :(.

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5 hours ago, awedio said:

Is most of the noise coming through the speakers or is it mechanical noise produced by the amp module?

For me, it's a strong hiss from the speaker. And also some high pitch sound. Also, when the signal is very very low, the sound is very similar to that one produced by a rubbing voice coil, but this happens with only this amp

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On 2/6/2018 at 11:29 AM, Ricci said:

This is not a customer service center where you are owed prompt attention. I don't have time to answer every post and PM,  or read this forum every day. It sometimes takes me a week to get back with people.

Very few other people have any experience with this system. When no one has experience with it they can't help answer your questions.

Patience is something I have had problems with forever.  I was wrong for that comment as it was more than had to be said...even if with a small percentage of "joking" in the motivation.  And yes, you do run this place like a customer service center.  I did come back and I am eating all the crow.  I apologize.  The interaction in this thread will help others.  Thank you for that.  I have been coming to this site for years as my half cocked online audio education progressed.  My hope is to make a weekend hobby/investment out of this as a retiree while my back and knees still work.  The engineering behind what happens in the realm of outside  venues is my new tangent in audio.  Reading best practices and understanding the math behind them is necessary/great, don't get me wrong.   Still, I need hands on.  So, I'll stick to providing equipment aimed specifically at augmenting low frequencies for a while - lf/ulf boxes that drop jaws outside.  If i do anything inside, i hope to push the envelope of high SPL "proper" bass.  Hopefully can trade use of my equipment and labor for training.  Would love to some day own and properly operate a Danley Jericho/DIY LF-ULF system that can entertain up to 1,000 people in open space with zero listener fatigue for hours at a time.  The Skhorn for IPALs is amazing.  The MAUL is a tremendous value.  Would like to see what Stereo Integrity 24 can do since charging the same price as rockford fosgate for the t3 19.  Not sure if SI products are used in the pro world.  Not in this for initial profit.  Need a way to scratch my car bass days itch without the police getting involved.  For some reason, I refuse to disturb my neighbors to the point that my desktop system has been stored.  Too much vodka and everybody has to listen to the Commodores.  Home theater subwoofers should be HOA violations.  Shared walls or single family period.  So, I'll find people with permits that have permission to have 20hz play as loudly as 20,000hz.  140 db at 10 feet is all i want.  hehe  

If I haven't totally torn my draws with you, can you recommend a live sound training program in Florida (Tallahassee if possible)?  I read somewhere that Danley offers something for their dealers - wish that was available to the public.  I'm so trained to rack up student debt that a $10,000 Live Sound Engineering training program from Recording Connection sounds good.

This is my red corvette zo6.  No, grey 911 gt2 rs is really what I'm after over time.   Midlife with no crisis, have a satisfying hobby, make extra retirement money for medical cannabis/random foolishness around the country in certain states AND I get to put my cnc machine research to good use.  My hope is to stay out of trouble and enjoy life until I kick the bucket.

That was a lot.  Again, thank you for what you do.

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On 2/12/2018 at 6:10 PM, Infrasonic said:

Oh no problem, good sir just......... heeeeeyyyy wait a minute!

You didn't let anyone else post before you replied to yourself. Looks like a discussion is going now.

You're welcome and .... thanks. ;)

Like I'm the only person that talks to self.  (Note to self, Infrasonic is not funny)  <---------  You don't do that?

I am working on growing patience.  Give me time.  I had to help myself...the anxiety was killing me.

Seriously, thanks for your input.  The IPAL Mod discussion you all had will help buy an extra driver or 2 instead.

You are not welcome because, I'm back.  Are you the infrasonic that is Stereo Integrity on other forums?  If so, which 24 would be easier to mod for lf/ulf use outdoors?  The HS box requirement is too much without clamshelling.  The SHS is power hungry for the same output as the HS.  Would love a mixture of the two.  I probably have you mixed up with another subwoofer driver provider.  Screen name and subject definitely ring a bell.  I googled around for like 30 seconds.  Funk Audio?

Had to come edit -

Complete mix up of your user name with someone else's.  My head will jumble up some things at times.  

Edited by atltx
Mix-up

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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:20 PM, atltx said:

Patience is something I have had problems with forever.  I was wrong for that comment as it was more than had to be said...even if with a small percentage of "joking" in the motivation.  And yes, you do run this place like a customer service center.  I did come back and I am eating all the crow.  I apologize.  The interaction in this thread will help others.  Thank you for that. 

That was a lot.  Again, thank you for what you do.

It's all good. Water under the bridge.

As far as starting your own speaker company goes... Good luck to you if you give it a shot. It's a rough field. Dog eat dog. Most of the time the lowest price wins. If not it's usually the oldest and largest name brands that will get the big money. The same holds true for sound providers / engineers.

I don't know who can provide courses other than perhaps Fullsail or attending seminars.

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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:59 PM, radulescu_paul_mircea said:

It is the DSP, it is made for outdoor pro audio usage, where the signal to noise improves 

Is that what Powersoft said in their reply? There are plenty of DSP products for the pro market, including others from PS that don't have nearly this amount of noise. I suspect it may have something to do with the DPC feedback loop.

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On 8/29/2018 at 6:57 PM, Ricci said:

Is that what Powersoft said in their reply? There are plenty of DSP products for the pro market, including others from PS that don't have nearly this amount of noise. I suspect it may have something to do with the DPC feedback loop.

Yes, the DSP is pretty old design, it is focused mostly on reaching the 2 microseconds latency to be able to use the DPC sensor and not on SNR. This means it is not suitable for cinema sound systems 

 

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26 minutes ago, radulescu_paul_mircea said:

Yes, the DSP is pretty old design, it is focused mostly on reaching the 2 microseconds latency to be able to use the DPC sensor and not on SNR. This means it is not suitable for cinema sound systems 

 

Thats what I thought. 

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On 8/29/2018 at 11:55 AM, Ricci said:

Good luck to you if you give it a shot. It's a rough field. Dog eat dog. Most of the time the lowest price wins. If not it's usually the oldest and largest name brands that will get the big money

Funny.  The math and money says go with Danley TH221 or other OEM's that use 21's or even the M-Force.  Hence my interest in 24's.  You would not pay for it because you have the knowledge and connections to equal what I've found for less.  I can not design and build anything close for the money asked.  I do not have access to the raw drivers because i can not request special parameters for a minimum bulk order. Example: Madisound told me I would have to put together an order of 300 pieces in order to see another Aurasound NS18-994-A. Didn't bother asking parts express.  I'm sure what was available to us was not used in the Magcio Qsub.  I gave my ns18 away in Az.  Never used and don't regret it. Was a tease.

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