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Which 18" for 3way SPL AND extension

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So after many years I am finally going to build my 3way. Things have taken a while but I have finally got a job that will allow me to actually start projects and finish them with in a reasonable time. I have a few projects that will finally be finished so I am planning, budgeting and simulating a lot right now.

 

I have looked at building a SH but will end up just building a 2way SH using a TPL-150, Celestion 0410 mids, and a single 18 below the horn. My designs goals were to have a dual 15 design like JTR's 215RT but costs start to add up. I then looked at just using a single 18". Most of the 18's I looked at are similar in SPL and extension. The next filter for me is price verse quality in sound. I have looked at a lot of BC products because they are by far the best value for me. So, I cant afford to buy all the drivers to have a listen to and then return them. So I am hoping others can comment to help me decide on which may work.

In the end I think all will probably work very well. I dont need crazy SPL as I am happy with a moderate setup. I am on suspended floors. I looked at buying a pair of 18's to compare in a side by side comparison. BUT I cant help but wonder about the others. I will have a active setup and be using a QSC PLD 4.3 for L/R.

So these are the two 18's I thought about buying first:

18IPAL and Funk 18TSAD-R

The 18IPAL will probably cost about half the cost of the 18TSAD. IPAL is peaky but does most things very well and can be used up to 350hz. Thats about as high as I think I will need. TSAD does this also but does look much flatter in comparison.

SO the first pic is the TSAD vs TD18H Apollo. 2nd pic is TSAD vs IPAL . 3rd is TD18H vs IPAL. 4th pic is BMS 18 vs TD18H. 5th pic TD18H Apollo vs FP18XL1800. And lastly is the GUJ vs TD18H Apollo just for fun. All these sims are in an enclosure of 250l and 18-19hz tune. I will look at trying to tune for 15hz but that will be a balancing act of smooth response shape and port size per volume of enclosure.  

So how do you choose which. For budget price the 18TBW100/NW100 even works. BUT I was looking at tying to buy more SPL for ULF double duties. So I started  looking at higher excursion models. Most expensive option is the BMS 18 or possibly the TSAD. Would have been nice to have bought Ricci's used BMS 18's. :( FP18XL1800 and TD are about the same cost. So as I said I looked at buying an IPAL either way to compare against the other 18. I have never heard the TD series of speakers so I dont know what I am missing if anything. Just never heard them to say if thats a good thing or not.  And of coarse I also simulated Kyle's 5100 speakers. Always considered those also if they were around.:)

 

And to add to this, I will be using this 3way as a fullrange system. Wont be any room for normal subwoofers. Hence such a low tuning. Luke I know you have used the TD18's as you have also Ricci. Dont know if anyone has compared the TD18 against anything else in a A/B comparo or something similar.

Thanks either way guys.

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Ricci, just noticed this in another forum but should this thread be moved to the speaker design section?

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For the low extension, you may want to pass on the AE TD18H.  I don't know how bad it will be, but it will probably leak a bit around the phase plug.

The IPAL does look quite peaky.  The TSAD and BMS look to be the best choices.  How high do you want to be able to cross?  My UH-21s are quite smooth up top, and don't break-up until 650 Hz. I believe.  But they do roll-off quite a bit above 100 Hz.  The shorting system in the TSAD may be superior to the BMS, but I don't know for certain.

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13 minutes ago, SME said:

For the low extension, you may want to pass on the AE TD18H.  I don't know how bad it will be, but it will probably leak a bit around the phase plug.

The IPAL does look quite peaky.  The TSAD and BMS look to be the best choices.  How high do you want to be able to cross?  My UH-21s are quite smooth up top, and don't break-up until 650 Hz. I believe.  But they do roll-off quite a bit above 100 Hz.  The shorting system in the TSAD may be superior to the BMS, but I don't know for certain.

I was looking at having a 350hz possibility for the 18. I looked at even using the 21's from BC but wanted to keep the width down a bit.(Although it does work in similar volumes just fine) UH21's would probably be a great option but I cant afford those pair of 21's for my system. TD18H looks to easily reach whatever is needed at the Xo and regarding the phase plug I looked at using the PB version of the TD18H. So leaking would not be a problem. Although, I never knew that could be a problem at all. As I said I have never heard any of the TD line up in person. IPAL was a possibility because the excursion capabilities and very low Le. It is very peaky but I figured I could EQ that flat. BUT this is all knew to me when it comes to using that much EQ on anything like an IPAL speaker.

 

And now that you mentioned your 21's, I did have a look at the 21DS115 . It is cheaper than any of the speakers I mentioned so far. BUT most of these are all within about 2-400 dollars. So I am looking at using the best driver I can. The 18DS115 is actually more expensive than the 21DS115. :huh:

I have a pair of 21SW152's already that will be used in a Skhorn for outdoors. I will have to wait on my TPL's to come in for another 2 months. Once I get those in I can start building the SH. Then use those underneath until I figure out what to use. I hope to have figured this out before then. 

Also waiting on a few quotes to see what will cost what. Probably hear back from all parties next week sometime. TSAD and IPAL were my first choice for future purchase to compare. Then I was curious about the TSAD and TD18H/PB+.

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Oh yeah.  I totally forgot that John can do a "PB" variety.  Email him and ask him where the dust cap resonance lies.  I doubt any other vendor can/will tell you that.  :) I think that may be the winner for your app.  The extremely low and linear inductance is hard to beat when you are trying to cover 15-350 Hz.

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5 hours ago, SME said:

Oh yeah.  I totally forgot that John can do a "PB" variety.  Email him and ask him where the dust cap resonance lies.  I doubt any other vendor can/will tell you that.  :) I think that may be the winner for your app.  The extremely low and linear inductance is hard to beat when you are trying to cover 15-350 Hz.

This was an old reply from John but he describes the PB18H+. He is saying what the benefits are for having the phase plug verse dustcap.

Quote

The benefits are the extra power handling and extra bandwidth. The TD18H+ get used in live sound applications where they are fed 1000-1500W each and abused for hours on end. One local sound company runs dual 18's off bridged Crest 8001 amps. Drivers are seeing 1400W continually for electronic shows that are very bass heavy. I wouldn't recommend that with the dustcaps instead of phase plug. If they will only be seeing occasional peaks of 1000W or so, the dustcaps will be fine. The heat will still be pulled from the coil quickly. It is just exchanged through the pole vent into the cabinet. This is the same as nearly every other pro audio woofer though. Also unless they are going to be used upwards of 500hz the dustcap driver will function just fine. There is a slight resonance with the dustcap about 800hz. If that is well out of your usable range then there is no issue.

 

AE PB18H+.jpeg

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For shipping purposes, I would choose the lightest weight driver that would meet your needs, since you have to ship down under. 

18XL1800 is 25.8 lbs.

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2 hours ago, Ukko Kari said:

For shipping purposes, I would choose the lightest weight driver that would meet your needs, since you have to ship down under. 

18XL1800 is 25.8 lbs.

BC speakers I dont have to pay shipping and the rest arent that bad to ship. Under 45-50lbs is ok. Anything heavier is when it gets expensive. I wont be basing my decision off of weight of drivers. If I have to pay a little more for one verse the other that is ok. I am only buying a pair of these drivers not 10.

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I've been impressed with the thermal handling of the TD18H+.  I've sent mine upwards of 1kw for long durations during music and they've handled it fine.  The phase plug does a really good job of dissipating heat.  

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Thanks Luke. I am curious about the dust cap leaking or making any noise when having to play 15hz tones. Might be something that is not even a worry but I dont know. I do know that I wont ever be pushing these very hard. My floors/walls wont take it. BUT I do plan on getting more of these AE drivers if they are to my liking. I still have to build myself a bass rig again also.

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