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Favorite amplifiers for bass

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Just keep in mind that most of what we listen to is very transient in nature and really doesn't amount to anywhere near the average current that you may think. Breakers are rated to trip at a point that approximates an average current draw equal to their rating. They will pass many times their rating for brief periods. An average current draw of even 20A is a ton of power into your subs. If using a 30A 120v breaker, you will have to draw a huge amount of current in one brief peak or a very large amount long term to trip it. Also keep in mind that once breakers trip a few times they will become easier to trip over time. If you have a breaker that trips easily it may be worth replacing with a new one of the same value.

Yah I haven't tripped my 30A breakers once and the only torture scene I haven't done yet is the infamous dragon crash in HTTYD.

 

I didn't know that once tripped they're easier to trip after that tho. Thanks for the heads up.

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Is a Crest Pro-lite 7.5 a good option?  Reviews I found said solid power output, fans that aren't very loud, more reliable than IPR2 7500, and not too expensive.  I just don't know about the rolloff.

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The crest pro-lite 7.5 is strikingly similar to the peavey 7500. Honestly I run both and while the peavey looks a little cleaner and doesn't have those blinding blue lights, short of a bank of caps being upgraded to 1100uF from 600uF, there really is no major differences. The fans you most definitely will want to switch out on either model, as they share the same fans, and are both quite loud if in the same room. 

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The crest pro-lite 7.5 is strikingly similar to the peavey 7500. Honestly I run both and while the peavey looks a little cleaner and doesn't have those blinding blue lights, short of a bank of caps being upgraded to 1100uF from 600uF, there really is no major differences. The fans you most definitely will want to switch out on either model, as they share the same fans, and are both quite loud if in the same room. 

 

Do you mean the crest looks cleaner and doesn't have those blinding blue lights?

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Beast,

 

Do they measure well in terms of rolloff?  I'm also seeing that they're fairly cheap for the output.  If there's a documented fan mod, and the rolloff is solid, I may be in the market for one.

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The fan mod is cake. they both actually mount to a metal piece that you detach with 3 screws. The fans have a termination plug that inserts into the board. I simply cut the wires off close to the old fan, and rewired the plugs to the new fans and shrink-wrapped the connection.  fc7c3b49_IMG_3408.jpeg

 

And here is the link to the fans you would need to install for quiet operation. There is also a smaller fan that helps circulate the air as it passes through the amp. I simply unplugged this one. 

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What do you guys think about the Crown 9000i Macrotech amplifier? Quotes 8Ohm bridge at 6000W. I already have a Crown XLS 5000 and it is rated 20Hz with rolloff below that (how much I'm not sure). The specs say rolloff below 20Hz also for the 9000i but would this mean similar or the same to the XLS5000 rolloff? I am happy with the result to port tune using the XLS5000 but was looking at replacing my Behringer EP4000 which is power limited. The 9000i seems like it would be way more than enough power to run my Captivator but is that a bad thing if I don't use it all? I can pick up the 9000i for about $1200 used in Australia would like to know what others think about this amp.

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That is a pretty good price on a 9000i. That amp should be close to a pair of XLS 5000's on real world content, even if it may not be quite as capable of being used for welding. I doubt you'd have the circuits required to weld with a pair of XLS 5000's anyway. I don't know the roll off for sure but Crown has seemed to favor a 8Hz DC filter for their lightweight amps in years past. It should be -3dB at 8Hz at dropping rapidly below that point.

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That is a pretty good price on a 9000i. That amp should be close to a pair of XLS 5000's on real world content, even if it may not be quite as capable of being used for welding. I doubt you'd have the circuits required to weld with a pair of XLS 5000's anyway. I don't know the roll off for sure but Crown has seemed to favor a 8Hz DC filter for their lightweight amps in years past. It should be -3dB at 8Hz at dropping rapidly below that point.

Thanks Josh

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Anybody know anything about PROEL Amplifiers? Specifically the HPX6000? Cheap but are they a piece of crap for sub duty? Can't find much on them.

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Just found this beast of an amp by a German company called Hoellstern:

https://hoellstern.com/en/amplifiers/4-in-4-out-dsp-tft/

The data sheet reads >10KW per channel (4) into 1.6 Ohms and one of their amps is rated for 1.6 Ohm bridged (!?) operation, this looks like something that will make IPAL owners happy.

I don't know the price of the DSP amps, but the non-dsp 20.4 is about 6 grand, which is actually pretty cheap for an amp with this much power, considering that the 8 Ohm and 4 Ohm performance per channel pretty much matches a Lab 14K (similar rail voltage), but the Hoellstern can output higher currents of up to 115A (FP14k@90A), which makes it stronger in the low impedance department.

Powersoft's X4L is a bridged amp, so it won't be very useful with the 2 Ohm loads you get with IPALs (2 in series if you have the "regular" IPALs), which would make this one of the best available IPAL amps that I'm aware of.

The single phase 16A/230V input would limit long term output to about 400W per driver if you connected 8 drivers to the amp. 4KW bursts per IPAL seem like a good match to me thou.
There is a 2 channel amp with even higher current figures (125A, similar to K20) for about 3.5 grand, if you want more sustained power.

Edit: after taking about 2 hours to write this (afk'ing in between and getting distracted), I even forgot the main question:

What do you guys think about these? Ever came across Hoellstern before?

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1 hour ago, peniku8 said:

What do you guys think about these? Ever came across Hoellstern before?

I've heard of them but never seen one over here in the states. They seem to have a pretty good reputation among the live sound guys. Not sure these would drive 8 ipals that well. The specs list a couple of things that stand out. 1.6 ohm 10kw rating per channel has a note about calculated as 2ohm + 20%? I didn't see mention of if the power ratings are with all channels driven or not or the duration or signal type. The big spec that jumped out at me is the long term power limit is 16A, so I don't expect it will do very well in a sustained power test. The K20 and K10 allow for settings of up to 32A for example. How useful truly sustained power into low impedances is is up for debate. A lot of people seem to get excellent results out of the modern "stun gun" amplifiers. Seems like this is a good competitor for the X4 and X8. 

Also check out the Linea research amps. Not necessarily for driving 1 or 2ohm loads but otherwise I've heard a lot of good things about these. 

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12 hours ago, Ricci said:

I've heard of them but never seen one over here in the states. They seem to have a pretty good reputation among the live sound guys. Not sure these would drive 8 ipals that well. The specs list a couple of things that stand out. 1.6 ohm 10kw rating per channel has a note about calculated as 2ohm + 20%? I didn't see mention of if the power ratings are with all channels driven or not or the duration or signal type. The big spec that jumped out at me is the long term power limit is 16A, so I don't expect it will do very well in a sustained power test. The K20 and K10 allow for settings of up to 32A for example. How useful truly sustained power into low impedances is is up for debate. A lot of people seem to get excellent results out of the modern "stun gun" amplifiers. Seems like this is a good competitor for the X4 and X8. 

Also check out the Linea research amps. Not necessarily for driving 1 or 2ohm loads but otherwise I've heard a lot of good things about these. 

I've looked at the Linea lineup some time ago when I saw @radulescu_paul_mircea talking about them; the amps look feature-rich and seem to have a good dsp for a reasonable price as well. In the end I'd have a much more detailed look at the dsp or even test it before I'd make a call. I've also seen a similar Dynacord amp, dunno if it's new. 

When I'm seriously ready to consider buying an amp of that caliber, there might be more options. First on the list are some l-acoustics system amps to get rid of the Sanway-workaround anyways.

I'm unsure if the K20/K10 can really make use of a 230V/32A connection. According to the data sheet, the X4's maximum current draw in single phase operation is 15A, while being like 5A on 3 phases. It looks like the 30A connection is meant for 120V operation and not fully a feature for 230V. I might not interpret the manual correctly, but 230V 3 phase operation should allow for some serious long term output.

32A single phase connectors are very uncommon in Europe too. Most of the time it's 16A single phase or three phase 32/63/125A. Or w/e multiphase 300A powerlock for the distribution.

Did your K20 ever trip a 16A breaker on 240V operation?

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I've never tripped a breaker with a K20 or the K10's . I have only used them on 240v with 30A breaker though. Same with the SP2-12000's. That's the AC I have at home, at the rehearsal space and for the outdoor GP testing. I've only hooked a K20 to 120v one time to check dsp settings. Breakers will pass significant current beyond their rating for a few seconds so it takes a ton of long term power to trip a 30A 240v line. Even the SP2-12000 dumped into 2 ohms per channel at clipping with a long sine sweep didn't do it. Perhaps a few sweeps back to back would've done it eventually. 

Over here the AC available is usually 120v 15A, 20A or 30A and 240V 15,20, 30 ,40 or 50A. 240V is primarily only used for heavy duty appliances and motors. 

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My SP2-12000 is still on 120V, on the same 20A circuit as all the rest of my gear including: a 55" LCD TV, 2 Emotiva XPA-5 gen2s, a Motu 16A, a Denon 3313CI AVR, two (fairly low power) PCs, a BD player or PS3, and a couple routers.  Loud movie bass passages with ULF lasting several seconds can be tickling the clip lights, but I've still never tripped the breaker or even heard any sign of distortion suggesting voltage sag.  The mains run from the panel is only about 15 feet, which might make a difference.  Also, my subs are crazy efficient at 30 Hz and up, so the amp doesn't have to pull much current unless there's a lot of ULF.

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Well the power distribution I have for live shows is 32A three phase, which is plenty for the sound system. The supply line gets split up into 6 single phase 16A circuits which are on breakers with C characteristics. That allows for like 10KW for a few seconds before it trips. Would love to test the Hoellstern's sustained power. My loadbank is only 4x4Ohm sadly, so I wouldn't even be able to test something like 4x1Ohm. That would require 64 of the 16 Ohm heating elements I use 😅

Quotes from the website:
The total power of all four channels is at practical burst signals typically 20 kW (40 kW for a short time).

1.6 ohm (only for information – 2 ohm minus 20 %)

@Ricci It says minus 20%. Looks like they're only trying to say that the amp is stable into loads like these, but don't want to comit to a specific number of power output.

With the super high maximum current of 125A on one of the amps, you would reach the rail voltage before the current limit even at a 1.6 Ohm load.

Has anybody here tested/used Powersoft's DigiMod 3000? I might want to use it for my single 21" cab. It's fairly cheap (total looks to be under 1 grand with the dsp chip) and the figures look like a great match bridged into an 8 Ohm driver.

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