chrapladm Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 But Scott what is that SNR based off of? What is the attenuation of the signal being tested......LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 I won't know for sure with out a Klippel test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've got to say I feel bad for seeing that there. One of the reasons I dont post there as much as I used to. They drove me and a bunch of guys to other forums. I mainly go there to see classifieds and what crazy stuff DIY folks have cooking in the kitchen sub wise... Honestly its worst than politics over there right now. Will be researching the Ignore feature there so I can just not have to read all the inane dribble. Love my HT-15, looking at dual HST-18's mainly because of the XMax (but that number has gotta be exaggerated by a factor of 20 of course ) so I can use the excursion potential to boost it in a sealed box with DSP down low and not overdrive the woofer but change the natural rolloff of the box... Anyway somebody there is supposedly selling a 4 pack of the 24" driver for 500 a driver if you can believe it.... LOL... I've looked high and low to see if I could just build a COUCH and LOVESEAT DIY style to accommodate a set lol... PS for the money the HST-18 is the best bang for buck BIG driver I see. Only other one I've seen even used is a LMS 5400 Ultra but even used the guy wants over 1k for each driver and the box to go with....... They model very similar in WinISD as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrapladm Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Well as has been stated value isnt everything. SO long as I can save some coins I will be buying my subwoofers from Nick. Quality subwoofers from a guy I like even with all the hype. If I could I would get a pair of HS24's but will just have to stick with smaller drivers for now. BUT yes as others have posted there arent many uber drivers available in 18" sizes. SO the 18HST is a win win . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlah384 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'm thinking about replacing my two UM18-22's with HST18's... They are each in a 9cuft ported box tuned to 17hz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I'm thinking about replacing my two UM18-22's with HST18's... They are each in a 9cuft ported box tuned to 17hz... I'd love to be there for their first notes! Bet it will be hammeringly loud lol Well as has been stated value isnt everything. SO long as I can save some coins I will be buying my subwoofers from Nick. Quality subwoofers from a guy I like even with all the hype. If I could I would get a pair of HS24's but will just have to stick with smaller drivers for now. BUT yes as others have posted there arent many uber drivers available in 18" sizes. SO the 18HST is a win win . Agreed. The cost for displacement is quite good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well said Dave. Unfortunately the bile being slung around inside the BHS-24 thread is nothing I didn't see coming. It's funny to see how I have to supply full Klippel data results (many many pages) where other companies are clear to publish what they want without repercussions. Unfortunately there is no stopping some people...especially those running around in their small chariots outside the Colosseum hoping an insane peasant hops on and starts yelling the same thing. I think it's quite funny really and it helps keep the thread at the top. All I can do is post actual data and try to flush all the haterade down the toilet bowl. If you read through the thread a little bit DIY speaker guy didn't even pipe down after Mark Seaton chimed in. Seems any post is fuel to DIY's pre-existing fire. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 If you read through the thread a little bit DIY speaker guy didn't even pipe down after Mark Seaton chimed in. Seems any post is fuel to DIY's pre-existing fire.: Well let's be honest... What does Mark Seaton know anyway teheheheheheheheh Couple quotes for you though I have been reminded of It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt ------------------------------------------ If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much. Donald Rumsfeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well let's be honest... What does Mark Seaton know anyway teheheheheheheheh Couple quotes for you though I have been reminded of It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt ------------------------------------------ If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much. Donald Rumsfeld Thanks for those quotes. I see that diy speaker guy is still at it but I was serious when I said "I'm leaving you with this one last bit" and I will not respond anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madaeel Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I think you're the devil Nick......but the devil sure does make some nice drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlah384 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I bet that DIY guy is a Bose employee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemX Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well let's be honest... What does Mark Seaton know anyway teheheheheheheheh Couple quotes for you though I have been reminded of It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt ------------------------------------------ If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much. Donald Rumsfeld Great quotes I guess Roosevelt was President for a reason lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Finally read it all. What a pissing match. Was going to post something (basically thanking Mark for one of his posts which was dead on) but got tired and said ahhh EFF it and went to bed. We all know it won't change anything or make a difference either way. DIYSG is a smart guy and he does make a valid point or 2 in his defense. I don't agree with beating the horse into the ground in every thread. It's gone well beyond making a couple of technical points to say your piece. He can be exhausting to get in a "discussion" with. I've had a few with him over at DIYAudio forum and I've seen a few others have the same. I think there were more than a few pages of us arguing over what eventually amounted to differing opinions on what the results were saying and some technical details in simulation land. There is still a deep need to "win" on the internets for some I guess. I just don't care enough. I do not understand the continuous effort and focus on SI. Of all of the companies and driver vendors out there? I guess Nick rubs him the wrong way. At least SI has some legit claim to the xmax figures even if it is not the full Klippel rating. Off the top of my head I can't think of any companies that use the Klippel result as the published xmax. It is way more stringent than the gap geometry specs. Most would fail to meet xmax rating based on the suspension, the inductance variation or both. Not to pick on any MFG in particular but do you see ANY information on what the Xmax figures are derived from at Fi, or AE, Mach5, or any of the various car audio companies selling subs with "30mm" xmax? We don't even know the simple gap geometry on most of these. Does anyone know of a company using the Klippel result as the published xmax? I can only think of a single driver that can legitimately claim to have passed all aspects of the testing at 30mm or better and that is the LMS. It was very close to failing or was for the suspension (surround) from what I remember. Whoever mentioned him in that thread should have never done so. He may have still started posting but that was a bad move IMO. Nick have you thought about making a section on your site to explain how the xmax and power handling suggestions are derived? I think it would quash most of this. Something simple saying our xmax rating is based on simulation of the BL curve or Klippel testing of the motor force versus excursion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Exactly spot on. Who posts any data regarding their Xmax numbers? 30 mm is HUGE throw. I've seen lots of subwoofer manufacturers claim "... 2" of peak to peak excursion!!!" On 99% of them I call bullshit. Show me. Show me that driver moving 1" each way using a 10 Hz sine and with SpecLab running in the background in the vid. We've pushed the BHT-15 to 30 mm one way throw, mechanically measured. Pure violence. We pushed the HST-15 to >40 mm one way throw, mechanically measured. The most excursion I've ever measured in any 15" driver that I didn't need a shop vac to clean its brains off the wall afterward. That's no bullshit. It's a fact. What would Klippel results have been during that exercise? Who the hell cares? I don't. A quote from Paul in the Mini GTG thread: So guys, remember the cop car scene from TIH we cranked on Nick's 2 HST's? I just went back and replayed it with everything set exactly the way it was when we shot the video for it and took some measurements... Turns out we were pushing 8912.32 peak Watts (give or take some equipment measurement error) to the 2 HST's in that video. The drivers were moving 42mm one way. Hahahahahaha! ! Disclaimer: We do not recommend that you feed that much power to any of Stereo Integrity's products. It was done only in the name of GTG excess and fun. This was challenged as being grossly in error due to blah, blah, blah. I take little if anything for granted in this arena and I say with confidence that I take Paul's measurements as truth until proven otherwise, whether it be millimeters or voltage peaks. I assisted in the throw measurement. The posted result is extremely accurate. We've tested the burst capability of the amplifier used in that exercise for 4 years and we know its capabilities well enough. Those are the facts, the rest is noise from the peanut gallery. It's SO like the BMW-M5 owner pissing and moaning about the Cadillac CTS-V bitch slapping the Beemer in a R&T article. Bwahahaha... save your dynamo data dude... you got whupped, go home and deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Alright. I think most of us get it by now. The driver is awesome. What's there to continue arguing about? Maybe there is nothing to talk about? Maybe some of you actually enjoy doing this "who's right" back and forth. I don't know. Get some of these drivers out there, Nick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredhead Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I don't think DIY is a bad dude. Somewhere along the line I think he got the wrong impression about what that initial Beast GTG was all about and then it's just snowballed from there on and off for the past year. I think it still deserves some discussion so that hopefully all parties can reach a less bitter resolution. I know it annoys a lot of folks at AVS having to see it but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossobass Dave Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well, it's very easy to judge the reaction from someone who is accused of various points of incompetence at what he does to feed his family. Sorry, but where I come from, them's fightin' words. What if Nick tracks down whichever member's career and posts alleged mistakes in and various negative comments about his conduct at work, etc.? We get lost in the fact that for most of those who post this is just a fun hobby and not how we make a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I won't know for sure with out a Klippel test. OH no you DIDNT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ll3d00d Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 What's there to continue arguing about? Maybe there is nothing to talk about? Maybe some of you actually enjoy doing this "who's right" back and forth. I don't know. *looks at atmos thread on avs* *ponders the participants in the to and fro on wide speakers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I know, right? Yet I'm get my posts deleted just for trying to be helpful and shit. Meanwhile... in any thread about the 24" driver.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrodynamic Posted November 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nick have you thought about making a section on your site to explain how the xmax and power handling suggestions are derived? I think it would quash most of this. Something simple saying our xmax rating is based on simulation of the BL curve or Klippel testing of the motor force versus excursion. No because it does not matter. It won't squash anything but only fuel the fire that DIY speaker guy rests on. This is quintessentially the limit where a troll limits data being displayed to consumers due to a massive troll. I am not at liberty to provide data other than what I seem fit. And he "diy speaker guy" has ruined it for the greater good. Thank him "diy speaker guy" for being the fore-front of all attempted speaker data from here on out to which all loudspeakers must hold up to. Maybe even demand a new measurement criteria for all drivers measured through your site Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrasonic Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nick, follow your own thoughts there and stop letting these kinds of people online get to you. Don't let internet trolls dictate your actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastAudio Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I think we should all just start buying up cheapo drivers and sending them to him so he can "test" them. It would be funny to see him come home to a front porch stacked floor to ceiling with rando woofers....that he didn't know were coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricci Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndersShadow Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I think we should all just start buying up cheapo drivers and sending them to him so he can "test" them. It would be funny to see him come home to a front porch stacked floor to ceiling with rando woofers....that he didn't know were coming. Sending him glitter bombs would be more fun..... Just sayin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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